[DroopyandZippy]

When Droopy was two we discovered that he had grade 1 luxating patellas and mild/moderate hip displasia. His agility career ended then when he was just about ready to trial. Whenever he would jump too much, he would get a little extra bounce in his rear end. It didn't really slow him down, but I wanted to prevent any injuries, so I decided to quit agility. He had x-rays done and the vet told me to keep working him just don't have him do too much, so we turned all of our focus to obedience. He did fine for a couple of years, then the little bounce came back when we started training hard for open. It also coincided with a move that took us away from our training facility. He had about a year off from formal training at that point.

I found a new facility and started to really get him ready for open. His hitch in his back end came back. We had him x-rayed again and there was no change in his patellas or hips, so that was positive. We put him on Adequan injections along with his glucosamine supplements. The problem is the broad jump. He has a terrible time getting over it, so I don't train it very much. However, it is his weakest event and he needs the most work on it. The high jump doesn't seem to bother him too much, but we still don't jump it very often. He is only jumping 8 and 16, but I try to usually do 4 and 8 during training. We also don't drill constantly on open exercises. I always try to break up exercises and we also practice utility exercises, tricks, and rally whenever we train.

He has 1 open leg and I would love for him to get his CDX, but I don't want to hurt him in the process. We haven't trialed that much, but when we NQ, it is on the broad jump. He LOVES to work and gets so upset when I work with another dog at class. He howls and moans and has a terrible time waiting. When he is at home he runs around like a crazy dog and will run and jump around. He also has no problem balancing on his back end to look on the counter or in the trash can.

I am pregnant and my original goal was to get his CDX before the baby was born. Well, he started limping and I started to feel like dirt, so that isn't going to happen. I also know that I won't be able to do much training for at least 6 or 8 months. Droopy will be 7 in February.

I do plan to get his RE title. He could literally do that with his eyes closed. I have been focusing so much on obedience that rally got pushed to the side. I have also been playing a little with K-9 Nose Work. He really enjoys that. Not as much as rabbit hunting, but he does LOVE to use his nose.

For those of you that compete, would you keep working him in obedience or just retire him and do something else?

 

[smitte21]

What about doing Veteran obedience with him? If he'll be 7 he should qualify. I'm not all that certain on the specifications but I know that Janis just did that at Nationals with Mona as Mona had a back injury not too long ago. Anyone else know the specifics on competing in Obedience or Rally as a veteran. I believe they take out the jumps but I'm not positive.

 

[Mikey T]

If the hitch is a result of the luxating patella, which would be generally the case given the general state of all basset hips, then surgery is an option I compete in agility with a basset diagnosed with HD for 8 year and still going strong. I have known several basset continue on after petella surgery to compete in agility.


There is also a difference between not competing and retiring, It is possible to continue training if you and the dog enjoy it and not compete only doing the exercise the dog is capable without pain,

 

[shallhb]

With a dog that loves to work, I'd keep going unless health clearly, clearly dictates otherwise. One thought. Lots of very sound dogs have problems with the broad jump. I don't know what it is, but seems to be a downer for lots of dogs. If he does the high jump ok, I wonder if it's his structural problems, or it's just the broad jump itself. Do you have a good local competition trainer you trust that could observe you and your dog in a training session, and give you their thoughts on what's going on? My trainer (Judie Howard) has been very helpful in discriminating between what's a health issue and what's a training issue. Second thing--is he any different on the broad when he's on is medication versus not? If there's not a big difference, you might consider you've got one of the those bj training problems, and the structural stuff is secondary.

ps--how do you like K-9 nosework? I went to one seminar, and it looked interesting. Pearl (my 10 year old, TDX dog clearly loved it) However, our tracking coach has been discouraging it,thinking it might encourage air scenting.

 

[DroopyandZippy]

I think it is both a structure issue and a training issue. He was having some limping issues before we ever really started training the broad jump when we were doing more agility. He seems to be able to do more vertical jumping before he starts limping than with the broad jump. However, the broad jump is his least favorite exercise and he is very creative in performing his own basset interpretation of how it should be done. He has ran around it, walked on top of it, used it as a spring board, and even laid down on top of it in the ring. I know I have not trained it as thoroughly as the other exercises, so it is completely my fault.

Even when he has his hitch in his back end, he still wants to work. I have always been careful to slow down training and give him some time off whenever I do notice that his gait is a little uneven. I am probably a little too paranoid about it. I just don't want to hurt him by continuing to work when he isn't sound. I do think the Adequan injections have helped some. He seems to be a bigger hellion and is more active now, but they have not eliminated the problem. He hasn't been jumped consistently for about 5 months and he shows zero uneveness in his gait now. His pivots are great and his finishes are great. He can walk for miles, so I know that the jumping does play a big role in his problems.

Another way that I can tell that he is hurting or not 100% is by his finishes. We normally do a left finish. When he is limping and I ask for a left finish, he will do an around finish. His left pivots are also off when he is limping. He normally has a really nice bouncy left pivot.

I don't plan on completely retiring him. He will keep going to class and doing non-jumping activities. I guess I am just trying to decide if I am going to try to get his CDX or not.

As far as K-9 Nose work, I have only been to one seminar. It was with Amy Herot and Jill-Marie O'Brien. Droopy and I are just playing with the boxes, so I am not very knowledgeable on the subject. At the seminar, the question was brought up if dogs could do nose work and tracking at the same time. I guess there are dogs that are successfully doing both. It was stressed to use different equipment for each activity and most dogs did not have a problem switching between the two. I have only dabbled a little in tracking, but I would think that working on a TD and doing nose work wouldn't be too big of a problem. I would think if you were working on a VST that it could become a problem with air scenting. The areas that are being searched seem very similar in most nose work finds and for the VST.

 

[shallhb]

So far as competing in Obedience as a Veteran, I think it's just the Novice exercises, so there's no jumping. I don't know about Rally.

 

[Mikey T]

you've got one of the those bj training problems,

The type of jumping required for the BJ vs traditional jumps is quite different, For the BJ the dog must jump in extenstion. In obedience their is little to no room to develop forward momentium that this type of extention jumping requires. Most basset I have seen are not rearly good at developing good intial exceleration of the line. As such most would find jumping the BJ from a more running start much easier. So if retraining I would start off giving the dog a more running start and let him build confindence in performing the obstacle. Secondly I would work on restrained recalls and similar exercises to build on acceleration off the line.

Keep in mind this is coming from some one that traind the BJ for agility and not obedience. Also keep in mind that the BJ is harder for a basset than other dogs in its height class because of its structure. The real length the dog must jump Is from hind legs at the take off position to hind legs at landing. Given their relatively longer back they have to take off much farther behind the BJ than other breeds hence a longer overall jump.

When jumping more collected like over a bar the hind legs and front legs are much closer together than when jumping in extention. That said obedience spend very little time teach dogs how to jump which is quite the oposite of agility. in which there are multiple video series on training jumping.

see
Jumping for a variety of products out there personally I follow the Susan Salo Foundation and puppy set with my dogs.

I dog that knows how to jump will be much more effcient and effective.

 

[shallhb]

I agree with Mikey T. Basset Hounds need a l-o-n-g take off for the broad jump. There may be a limit on how close you get get to the ring for your take off, but so far as i know, there's no limit on how far away you can be for the running start.

 

[DroopyandZippy]

I completely agree about giving him as much room as possible to run before the broad jump. My trainer and I even tried to mark off the optimal starting distance for him, but his strides are never consistent. On one run, starting him at 20 feet might be perfect, but on the next, he is taking off too far back at 20 feet. We tried to vary the take off distances, but we never found one that consistently worked for him. I guess that goes back to not jumping correctly. I will do some research on what the agility people use to teach correct jumping, but I am afraid that if I practice very much, he will start limping again. It is a vicious cycle. That is why his training has suffered so much on this event because when I train it, he starts limping.

 

[Mikey T]

but on the next, he is taking off too far back at 20 feet. We tried to vary the take off distances, but we never found one that consistently worked for him. I guess that goes back to not jumping correctly.

Find the correct take of point and make strid length adjustment are an import part of the jumping skill.

but I am afraid that if I practice very much, he will start limping again. It is a vicious cycle.

most of the jumping joundation work is done at lower heights so if it is the jumping itself and not the running that is the aggrating his leg then jump foundation training might actual help by reducing the forces and stresses. If it is running in general than that of course will not be the case.

Only 1 of the four basset I have trained in agility had any natural jumping ability. That is the case with most bassets, the have very little hind end awarnesses the back end is often along for the ride rather than being the power plant for jumping.

I will do some research on what the agility people use to teach correct jumping,

Personally I would recommend the Susan Salo dvd mentioned above. Somewhere I have the clean run Jumping Special Issue if interested send me a PM but the dvds mentioned above are much more detailed and helpfull

 

[DroopyandZippy]

Thank you all for your helpful information. I really appreciate it. I will definitely check out the Susan Salo dvd. Now I just have to keep the little beast occupied until I can start working him again.

Thanks Mikey T for suggesting tug and fetch to burn off some steam and keep him occupied while I am on limited activity. He will do both when he is worked up and has the zoomies, but neither tug or fetch, other than his obedience dumbbell, gloves, and scent articles were on command. I got the clicker out and shaped them both. I had a tugging and toy fetching fool in about 10 minutes.

 

[Mikey T]

I had a tugging and toy fetching fool in about 10 minutes

you may find the follow video informative and helpful in build toy drive.