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Discussion Starter #1
I know there is always an argument on what type of food to feed your dog....I was curious what types you all feed.
I am aware they can develop ear problems and infections, with proper care this shouldnt happen, but I am also aware that food can have a great deal to do with those type of things as well.

I have bought Nutro, Natural Choice Puppy Lamb Meal and Rice.

Used to feed the Mastiffs Eagle Pack, which I really liked...but its hard to get ahold of around here.

Any help here would be good....
 

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http://www.heatherweb.com/cyberhound/board...=62&hl=food

Here is a link to an earlier discussion about food- I went to the 'Search- option on the upper right of the page, and typed in 'food'- this is one link that seems promising-

One thing I will add is that Murray gets some canned pumpkin and bran with his kibble at each meal- this helps with his anal gland problems.A big carrot now and then adds more fiber,and he also gets a glob of Dannon plain yogurt with each meal to help with his yeast problems. And usually some salmon or tuna for a natural protein source (he's allergic to beef and chicken- his kibble is Wellness Fish and Sweet Potato).

Hope this helps-
 

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I make Baxter's food. It has been so much better for him! I call it his goulash. It is a crock pot with fresh chicken, sweet potatoes, split peas, rice, organic carrots & green beans. It works the best for us. Good Luck!
 

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We feed Bogie "Nutro Natural Choice Lamb and Rice for adult dogs". The vet noticed his beautiful coat the last time we were in and said that whatever you are feeding him is working for him. He gets 2 and 1/2 cups a day, one morning, one at evening, and 1/2 right before bed around 10 PM. He was getting us up at 4 AM and throwing up yellow bile, when got him as a 10 month old, and the 1/2 cup tides him over to 7 AM now with no vomitng. The vet said some Bassets especially, do that on empty tummies. Bogie weighs 48 pounds, and the vet said he was in great shape. He is a year and a half old.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Well I was trying to stay away from corn and wheat...and this one seemed to do that....I am happy that it is working for you...i already have a bag of it...so we will see how he does, if its not working then I will switch to something else.

Also...what does everyone use for the ear cleaning solution??
 

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On ear cleaning, we do Bogie's ears twice a week using "VET Ear Cleansing Solution" that we get from the vet. We use a marked eye dropper and drop about a quarter of the eye dropper full of solution in each ear. Hold ears straight up and massage. You can hear it squishing, and then we take a round cotton facial wipe and wipe out the ear canal as far as my wrapped finger can reach. Cotton balls tended to leave behind fuzz and the facial wipes we use do not. Bogie had some of the brownish gunk in his ears when we first got him as a 10 month old. Now they are clean, and the vet was impessed on our last check up.
 

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Well I was trying to stay away from corn and wheat[/b]

Why? Fwiw corn and wheat are not any more allergenic than any other carbohydrate source. In fact in most food allergies it is protein that is the source of the allergery. In animals prone to food allergies the food they will become allergic too is that which they are exposed to the most is what they become allergic too. Hence beef, chicken, corn and wheat lead the way in food allergies of dogs because it is what is in most dog food. However if you were to feed a dog prone to allergies on Fish and potato it would develop an allergy to fish and potato not chicken and corn. The problem is not with a particular ingredient of food stuff but with the allergy prone dog itself. Trying to avoid a particular food to avoid allergies is a strategy doomed to failure.

There are food that do use too much grain/carbohydrate as a caloric source and a poor source of protein. It is not the fact that use corn or wheat in the product that makes it a poor choice but rather the guanity of corn and grain. But this can occur regardless of the protein source or charbohydrate source. A fish and potato food that is too dependant on potatos for calories is not as good as a chicken and corn based product that is weighted much more toward the chicken.

IMHO the things it look for in a food are 1. A High protein and fat content . 25% min on protein better if over 30%, 10% min on fat unless a caloric restricted diet to reduce weight. (note. many Light food are lite because of add fillers so in the end reduced nutrition, in a reduce calorie formual you still want high protein content which there are only a few commercially available.)

2. High protein high fat diets are high in calories you need to feed less and keep the dog active. Those to things are important for long term health.

3. If you do research on high protein diet will find a handfull of small studies that link high protein with some behavioral problems like aggression. This only ocurred when high protein diets were fed to inactive dogs, hence the recommendation to keep the dog active. In active dogs high protien has been shown as necessary to maintain health especial muscle, tendon and ligament repair.

For readily available commerical foods I have on a sometime rotating base use Eukanuba Premium Performance (regular and large breed) natural choice high energy, and royal canin eneryy 4800. For a restricted calorie diet to lose weight or prevent weight gain in a low activity dog, I really like Royal Canin light 27 with 27% protein to help retain muscle mass and still low calories. amazingly the bag promenently features a basset hound on the front
 

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Mickey - Do you have a favorite for Puppies? Baxter was eating Purina Puppy Chow when I got him and I continued this past week so as not to upset his stomach. But I was always told to check the ingredients and be sure the the first ingredient is whatever meat it says it is - such as chicken, turkey, beef, lamb, etc. It shouldn't start with a grain. What do you think?
 

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Just out of curiosity, I wonder if animals can get celiac disease or some sort of gluten intolerance like humans.

I'm being tested for it and it seems that Ruby comes up with a lot of the same diseases I have. I'm kidding of course, but you never know seeing that there might be an environmental cause at times rather than genetic for some autoimmune diseases.

Janice and little Ruby


[Fwiw corn and wheat are not any more allergenic than any other carbohydrate source. In fact in most food allergies it is protein that is the source of the allergery.]
 

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Just out of curiosity, I wonder if animals can get celiac disease or some sort of gluten intolerance like humans.

I'm being tested for it and it seems that Ruby comes up with a lot of the same diseases I have. I'm kidding of course, but you never know seeing that there might be an environmental cause at times rather than genetic for some autoimmune diseases.

Janice and little Ruby
[Fwiw corn and wheat are not any more allergenic than any other carbohydrate source. In fact in most food allergies it is protein that is the source of the allergery.]
[/b]
Why not most dogs are lactose intollerance. FWIW intolerance is not the same as allergy even though most dogs with intolerance are said to be "allergic" there is not the classic imune system responce to intolerance as there is to a true allergy. Food allergies acount for only 10% of all allergies. intolerance is more common than allergy.

Food Allergies
There is a distinction that needs to be made between food allergies and food intolerances. Food allergies are true allergies and show the characteristic symptoms of itching and skin problems associated with canine and feline allergies. Food intolerances can result in diarrhea or vomiting and do not create a typical allergic response. Food intolerances in pets would be similar to people that get diarrhea or an upset stomach from eating spicy or fried foods. Fortunately, both food intolerances and allergies can be eliminated with a diet free from offending

...In an effort to combat food allergies, several companies produced a diet made of lamb and rice. There was nothing special about lamb and rice diets except those two ingredients were normally not present in pet foods. Animals had not eaten lamb or rice before, and therefore, had not developed an allergy to it yet. If the main ingredients in pet food become lamb and rice, then it would stand to reason that the most common problem foods could become lamb and rice. The determinant of whether a food is likely to cause a food allergy or not is based on the structure and size of the glycoprotein in the food. In addition, many lamb and rice-based foods contain many other ingredients, and if the animal has a food allergy to any of them, this lamb and rice food will do nothing to treat the food allergy. In addition, while many people criticized and blamed preservatives and flavorings as a source of food allergies, studies have shown that they are not the causes, and while we may not have justifiable health concerns about preservatives, food allergies is not one of them.[/b]
gluten-sensitive enteropathy
 

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"Mickey - Do you have a favorite for Puppies? Baxter was eating Purina Puppy Chow when I got him and I continued this past week so as not to upset his stomach. But I was always told to check the ingredients and be sure the the first ingredient is whatever meat it says it is - such as chicken, turkey, beef, lamb, etc. It shouldn't start with a grain. What do you think?"


It is not as simple as make a meat or meat/meal the first ingredient. While ingredients are list high to low as a percentage of overall content, high grain content can be masked by using multiple grains or different "varieties" of the same grain. Let say a food is 12% meat based protein and 40% grain. The meat would still be listed as the primary ingredient is say four or more grain sources were used and none exceed 12%. They would show up as ingredients 2-5 In addition to meat being the first ingredient you don't want a lot of grains occupy the 2-5 spots also.


IMHO the biggest nutritional problem facing puppies with large bone masses such as bassets and many large breed dogs is actual "over nutrition" either overfeeding or to fas muscle mass gain for the slower growing bones to keep up. This can lead to orthopeadic problems. In the past it was advocated to supplement with calcium to promote bone growth. Recent studies have clearly demonstrated this is not a good idea. High calcium level leed to abnormal bone growth and is a causitive factor in many orthopeadic conditions common in large breed puppies. Never, ever supplement the diet with calcium

Optimal feeding of large breed puppies
Jennifer Larsen DVM, MS
Resident, Small Animal Clinical Nutrition
Veterinary Medical Teaching Hospital
School of Veterinary Medicine, University of California, Davis

Several orthopedic diseases of dogs can be precipitated by improper feeding practices during growth. Large breeds of dogs are predisposed to these problems because they have the genetic potential for excessively rapid growth. In rapidly growing, large breed puppies, maximal growth, and therefore increased body weight, can cause stress on the immature developing skeleton. Large breed dogs have decreased bone density compared to smaller breed dogs at this stage (Dammrich, 1991). Additionally, fast bone growth results in structural defects of bones that are in turn unable to accommodate an increased body weight.

...There is currently no perfect formula to guarantee an optimal rate of growth for an individual puppy. It is especially important to avoid overnutrition during periods of the most rapid growth, which will vary with breed and between individuals. Breed and individual differences, environmental factors such as climate, and activity level will all affect the amount of food required. Obviously, palpable body fat is not specific enough to be a guideline for optimal nutrition. Provide an amount of food that will maintain lean body condition throughout growth. This will allow for a slow growth rate, but won’t affect the final adult size. The goal is to keep growing puppies lean at about a body condition score of around 4 on a scale of 1-9 (a score of 1 is emaciated and 9 is grossly obese). You should be able to easily feel the ribs.

...In addition to excessive energy intake, inappropriate amounts of calcium have also been shown to cause developmental bone disease (Hazewinkel, 1989). Many breeders and dog fanciers advocate calcium supplementation for growing pups. Calcium supplements should never be recommended for dogs eating commercially available diets designed for growth. Excess calcium is potentially very detrimental to the development of a healthy skeleton. Unlike adult animals, puppies appear to have inefficient mechanisms for regulating how much dietary calcium they absorb from the food. This can result in absorption and retention of more calcium, especially when the dietary calcium is high (Hazewinkel et. al., 1991, Tryfonidou, 2002). The excessive calcium may result in skeletal malformation (Hazewinkel et. al. 1985). Excess calcium can also cause deficiencies in other nutrients, especially zinc (Wedekind, et. al. 1998). Feeding a diet with too little calcium is equally problematic. Many home prepared diets for pets are lacking in calcium. In this case, the skeletal system must provide the calcium for the rest of the body, and brittle, malformed bones are the result. Current recommendations for feeding any healthy dog include choosing a nutritionally complete and balanced dog food that has undergone feeding tests. The guidelines for these tests are established by the Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO). When such a diet is fed, vitamin and mineral supplements are unnecessary and potentially harmful.

The common practice of feeding commercially available adult dog foods to puppies can also be detrimental. The broad category of adult canine maintenance foods contains diets with a wide range of nutrient profiles, caloric densities, and mineral contents. Some foods marketed for adult maintenance have passed AAFCO feeding tests for growth, but some have not. Regardless, in some instances, these diets provide more calcium per calorie and/or have more calories per cup than growth diets designed for large breed puppies. A large breed growth diet that has passed AAFCO animal feeding tests should be fed at least until the puppy reaches about 80% of the expected adult weight, and it will not be detrimental to keep a healthy, lean puppy on growth formula until full adult size is achieved. Above all, remember to feed a large breed growth formula in sufficient quantities to maintain a lean body condition, and avoid additional supplements.[/b]
The best advice is to feed a puppy food that has under gone actual AAFCO feed studies that is large breed specific. As to which brand is best is a matter of preferrence. The best advice I read on dog food is contained in the following link
Help in making the choice easier
if you got your dog from a breeder, ask that breeder what they recommend to feed. Chances are good that your breeder has been through the dog food rollercoaster and has found a food which they feel works best for their dogs. Use their knowledge. That's what they're there for.

... I feed what works for my dogs! Whether that's Purina, Iams, Eukanuba, Diamond or whatever. This is my advice for you. FEED WHAT WORKS!!! Don't let anyone guilt you into or suck you into buying a food based on a magazine's 10 best foods or prejudice towards certain dog food companies. If it works for your dog, then feed it. [/b]
The other imporant aspect is not to overfeed the recommendation on the side of the bag is just a starting point. Each dog is different and will require a different amount of food. so you must learn to ascess the dogs weight properly and keep in mind slighly under fed is better than overfed. For growing puppies a 4 is reccomended on the purina body condition chart

Body condition Chart

BODY CONDITION

Corpulent Canines?
The best way to determine whether a dog is overweight is to test 3 different parts of the body: the neck, the ribs, and the hips.


To check the neck, press your thumb and index finger deep into the side of the neck just ahead of the shoulder, and pinch them together. If your fingers are more than 1/2" apart, the dog is overweight. (Note: this is where old dogs tend to carry most of their excess fat, and they may actually be thin in other locations.)
To check the ribs, stand with your dog beside you, facing his butt. Place your thumb on the middle of his spine half way down the back and spread your fingers out over his last few ribs. Then run your fingers up and down along his skin. You should be able to feel the bumps of his ribs without pressing in.
To check the hips, run your hand over your dog's croup. You should be able to feel the bumps of his two pelvic bones without pressing down.


Some of you may be reading this and thinking, "I would never want my dog to be that skinny!" Think about the Olympic athletes. If you want your dog to be an athlete then it is only fair that you do what you can to help him achieve the body that he will need to perform and stay healthy and injury free for many years.[/b]
also keep in mind owners tend to think there dogs are thinner than they really are!
Purina® Study Confirms Link Between body Fat and Certain Health Conditions
Other Purina research found that most owners couldn't accurately assess their dogs' body conditions. When owner and expert scores were compared, only 28 percent of owners characterized their pets as above ideal body condition, while 79 percent of the experts scored those same animals to be above ideal body condition. Dr. Larson says this gap is serious because pet owners are not likely to recognize that their pets are overweight and even moderate excess body fat may lead to problems.[/b]
 

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Wow Mickey, that's a lot of information! Thanks so much. I did find it very interesting. I especially found the part about "Gimmicks" to be very informative! I've been feeding my Labs Lite forumlas and now I think I'll try the regular and feed the minimum for their weight and add the green beans to the food. I know that I'm always saying that for "people" food - I'd rather eat less of something that I really enjoy than a lot of "lite" food that I don't really care for. I also was under the impression that "meat" had to be the first ingredient. I'm feeding my Labs a food that states that the chicken is the first ingredient and is fresh - never frozen - in their dry formula. My dogs do like it, but it does sound kind of odd (fresh?). My Basset pup is eating Purina Puppy Chow - it's the formula with dry and soft combination. This is what the breeder was feeding them so I wanted to stick with the same - at least for a while. His coat is extremely shiny. I'm trying to settle on a permanent puppy forumla as I want to give him the best nutrition I possibly can, especially while his body is growing and his bones are developing. I'm still not sure what to buy, but at least I have some information to read up on.
 

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I agree that there is no "perfect" food. First of all, every dog is an individual, so their individual needs are different. Also, I do not think that any food can be 100% complete in everything, which is why I believe in switching foods around fairly frequently.

Mine are currently eating Kirkland Chicken & Rice, because I believe it is a decent food for the price (I am on a tight budget at the moment) and it has no corn. However, I am experimenting with two of my dogs by trying them on EVO, because after noticing the huge difference that going low-carb has made on my own health I want to see if it does as well for the dogs.

As for whether dogs can get celiac type disease, I did have one basset who was intolerant to ANY grains and would get irritated skin if he ate them.
 

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I also was under the impression that "meat" had to be the first ingredient. I'm feeding my Labs a food that states that the chicken is the first ingredient and is fresh - never frozen - in their dry formula. My dogs do like it, but it does sound kind of odd (fresh?).
[/b]
It is actual better to have a meat meal list as the first ingredient than a meat. Meat meal is dry hence more nutrition per it's weight. Meat contains a lot of water which is removed in the making of kibble so the same weight of meat contain much less protein and other nutrients than that of the same meat meal.
 

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We feed both of our hounds Castor & Pollux Organixs Ultramix. They LOVE it. It's made with fruits/veggies and actual meat, rather than meat by-product. They always eat the dried sweet potato and banana chips out of the food first.
 

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We feed both of our guys Performatrin Ultra- Austin gets the lamb and rice adult version, and Jackson gets the Chicken and rice puppy version. We are very happy with this food, but I agree that it seems to be somewhat of an individual thing.
 

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Our dogs are currently being fed Iams Natural Choice because it has the nutrition stuff I was looking for but isn't super expensive. Virga gets some Purina Pro Plan mixed in with hers and Doppler gets Ol' Roy mixed in with his. My in laws started him on the Ol' Roy and when we got him out to Vegas, he wouldn't eat until we got him some. It's ridiculous. But starting Wednesday Virga is going to be on special food to help her bladder stone dissolve and then maintenance food to prevent them from forming again.
 
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