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very bad separation anxiety

3600 Views 10 Replies 5 Participants Last post by  Mikey T
anyone got any ideas pleaseJune pees all the time she been checked by a vet &
was given the all clear
she knows to go outside but she just doesn't
i can have her outside for an hour & she will come in & pee either in our bedroom but it's always on my side or my daughters bedroom
its gotten that bad that we have had to take up all the carpet we had & have now put lino dawn because its easier to clean
i don't know if its because of me & tony because we are both not well people tony is diabetic & has a bad heart he had a heart attack
at 28 years old i thought he was going to die
he has trouble with his feet he has nerve damage in them
he has very bad angina & is asthmatic he is on god knows how many tablets but June seems very close to him always wanting a cuddle from him she was bought for me but she is Tony's dog for shure
she will cuddle with me & sleep with me but if she could be with tony 24/7 she would
it doesn't help me because i am visually impaired & i stand in it
i have other problems that affect my every day life & i love having the dogs the give me so much in return i love them all to bits
i can get her to go and do her bisys but sometimes she just pees& if you tell her she just sort of looks at you as if to say what ive peed get over it :p
it can be frustrating sometimes as she has always done this
from a puppy but sometimes i don't think the breeders helped because they had her outside most of the time & i don't think they taught her right from wrong so i think that there was problems there already
but it dose make you wonder sometimes she suffers very bad from separation anxiety but that shouldn't bother her when we are home should it :eek: when she was a puppy & we put her in the car she would pooh in it we tried pheromone sprays & it didnt work
she will still do it every now & then we can't lave her on her own in a car because you will come back to pooh spread all over the car & i mean all over tony got a brand new mobility car & we went shopping for 15 minuets
if that we come back to the car just covered in dog pooh
& as you can imagine tony was a little pissed to say the least that day we was getting rid of her he didn't care ware she went bla bla bla :rolleyes:
even when she had done this she hadn't got a clue why we was upset
with her she just was going mental because wed come back
if we take June out with us now in the car someone has to stay in the car with her or you know what we come back to oh i forgot to say she also pees in the car as well
any advice is very much welcomed :rolleyes:

this is my little June

she's got a heart of gold she's a sweet girl

we hadn't had her long here she was only 4 months
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she knows to go outside ...i don't think they taught her right from wrong ...when she had done this she hadn't got a clue why we was upset
I put these together to further emphysis the incongruity between them. If the dog knew to go out each and every time that is what it would do. I think it is a giant mistake to think dogs have the same moral understanding of Right form wrong as humans, what they understand is what works and what does not work in their own percieved self interest. The is no moral code as such. And the last is self explainitory because it is true.

Dogs that go in the house do so because the are unclear on the rules. Let us assume for instance that a Dog does Know right from Wrong and deliberitely choose wrong. how do crorect that.? Whereas if one assumes the dog does not have a clear understand of the rule, then simply teaching the rule to the dog solves the problem. Which assumption is more likely to produce results?

i don't know if its because of me & tony because we are both not well people
There is a idom in dog training that the dog is the reflection of the ability of the trainer. That said one must also look at all the dog when there are multiple dogs and only one has a problem it is more likely the cause of a problem is something unique with that particular dog than those doing the training.

it's always on my side or my daughters bedroom
its gotten that bad that we have had to take up all the carpet
Dogs develop a substrate and location preference about where to relive themselves. This is why controling accidents are important. Every accident creates and reinforces the impression in the dogs mind that where they are going is acceptable. Also ure has a tendency to penetrate carpet the pad an get permenantly imbeded in the subfloor. Even when recovered there may be still a lingering odor that is attracting the dog to the spot that will continue unless the subfloor is removed or treated to seal in the odor.

Simply put a dog having accident in a house is simply not housetrained House training an adult dog is no different than a puppy except it is harder because there is more history of accidents to over come. see Housetraining Your Puppy for info on substrate preference, how to change it and basic housetraining advice. The first step however in the process is prevent accidents from occuring. This requires strict supervision and confinement when supervision is not posible. Some find teathering the dog to themselves with the leash an effective technique.

she knows to go outside
Don't know your set-up and how the dog gets outdoors to eliminate. If you are using a Doggie door keep in mind in general dogs trained with a doogie door are less thouroghly trained and compentent than other house trained dogs. This is not an indictement of doogy doors quite the opposite because they require less extensive an thurough training is why people choose then in the first place but I do believe their is a slightly higher rate of loss of house training with them as well. For instance I am dealling with two issue with my youngest as it relates to using a doogie door.

1. I inadequitly trained the trainsition between sending her out and rewarding her for going out on her own, She would wait to be sent out and when that did not occur sneak off and find a spot in the house. The only cure is more dilligent supervision to prevent sneeking of and up the reward for going out on her own. The other problem is more difficult and may never be completely solved, That is the issue of consitent use of punishment under certain situations that reduces the likelihood of going out to deficate. Specifically when the dogs views certain environmental conditions like rain as adversive and something to avoid it becomes more diffuclt to get the dog to coluntarily go out in these conditions. One can reward the dog for doing so when you are home but the dog knows there are no reward when you are not. Currently I need to confine when these weather conditions exist and I am not home but am always look for new ways to change the dogs perception of rain into something that is fun.

Another helpful tool in managing the dogs behavior to prevent accidents is a strict schedual. A dog on a schedual for food, water, play and sleep will also be on a schedual for when it need to go. When the behavior is predictable it is easier to control.

Whenthe dog need to signal when it need to go out, is often the first break down in house training occurs. Most assume a dog will naturally, and easily find a signal that witll work consitently to inform the human it need to go. Nothing is further from the truth, on the contrary it is not simple or easy for the dog to do this and more often than not simply serindipity . This road block can easily be overcome by rather relying on the dog to discover a signal that works is to train a singnal to the dog. On that most find rather easy to train and very effective, is to teach the dog to ring a bell
can have her outside for an hour & she will come in & pee
Keep one thing in mind from the Housetraining link above activity makes pee. It would not be unual for a dog even after going outside need to go again if it was active while outside, Often after it comes in and has a big drink. This can be anticipated and therfore avoided. However if she is not going in the first place the following tip may help
Potty training tip
Ok, here's a great little trick I picked up while fostering an 8 week old greyhound puppy last summer. Get an x-pen, also called a puppy pen or an exercise pen. They're small pens made of heavy metal wire fencing. They give the pup an area not too much bigger than a large crate, and they sit right on the ground. Set up the x-pen in a grassy area with nothing else on the ground inside it, use a few tent stakes to stake it to the ground so it can't be knocked over if the pup jumps up against it, and put her inside. She doesn't come out to sniff, or play or go inside, until she goes potty. As soon as she goes potty, out she comes with much rejoicing, apply treats to puppy liberally, and then it's play/explore time, or whatever else she wants to do. Her reward for pottying is to get out of "potty prison". It worked pretty well for the little boy I fostered last summer--he had nothing in the pen to distract him from business at hand, and he *really* wanted out so he learned to get to work in a hurry.
It accomplish many thing important to potty training. 1. defines where to go for the dog. The whole "garden" can be rather amorhpious concept for the dog when it comes to a potty spot. 2. Teaching a more limited spot makes cleanup easier. 3. It rewards the dog for going. 4 it creates a safe environment, IMHO some dogs require more privacey than others just being attached to a leash in close proximity to a human can inhibit them. I could speculate why this is but as stated in other threads why does not help in solving the problem.

she suffers very bad from separation anxiety but that shouldn't bother her when we are home
Just because you are in the same house does not mean there are not occasion you are seperated, different room etc. however some of the behavior are unrelated to seperation anxiety but that does not mean it does not play a role in others. it is worth investigating, Such as not going outside could be related to not wanting to leave you or your husband,

Using the search function you should find a number of threads on seperation anxiety that may prove helpful keeo in mind however treatment usually requires the use of drugs as well because quite simply the protocol for behavior modification which requires no abscence longer than the dog can handle is simply not possible in a remotely modern household,
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just dont understand this bit
it is because you are over thinking it and assuming because the other dogs understood the task this one should as well. Not every dog is the same and some require more management and training than others but let me point out something else

she has come in from doing a bisy
i give her a treat & make a big fuss
what are you actual rewarding? her going or her coming in after going? If she precieves it as the second why not just pee a bit and run in and get the trea rather than finish the job. For a dog to understand what is being reward it must be delivered with in a second for the act. That means rewarding for going must be done while she is going or just after completion, Not in the house because now the dog is not rewarded for eliminating but rather for comming in the house.

Granted there are many dogs that can and do put complex chains of behavior together and understand they are being rewarded for all the behavior, but that is not the case with every dog, and it takes a lot of time for such an association to be made as well so it is far better and clearer to the dog to reward immeadately. If you can not reward immeadiate a bridge i.e. reward marker is helpful to clearly deliniate what is being rewarded for more on this see

click Start

i learnt a lot from guide dogs about toilet training
House training a lab or golden is infinitely easier than housetraining a basset they are like night and day,
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she was jumping up the walls after standing in dog pooh that shed done when we was away so that went through the window
the crate idea we had to stop because shed pooh & wee in that as well
This is a manifestation of the seperation anxiety the only solution is dealing with the sepeeration anxiety. Keep in mind a requirement of the behavior mod treatment is the dog can never be left long enough for theunwanted behavior to develop. This either requires a dedicated stay at home owner, an unussual household schedule in which someone is always home, ridge scheduling using accomidating family, freinds, neighbors and day care facilities, most of which is imparactical.

That leave the use of drugs to lessen anxiety in addition to behavior modification you need to speak to your vet as these require a perscription, at least in the US i suspect the same in the UK
see SEVERE seperation anxiety!!


For additional links especial ones on the use of anti-anxiety medication

she will only do it if you are near it
The question is where is she when you move around in the house does she need to follow you ( you be plural human member of the family) around. It is quite possible her seperation anxiety prevents her from ringing the bell because she can not leave you. that is why she will only ring it if you are near by. Trying to put a bandaid on this problem or simply managing it is not likely to work. It is a serious issue that is going to require outside help. Like I said in my first post just because you are home does not mean her seperation anxiety is not having an effect on housetraining.

Let us assume her seperation anxiety is such she never wants to be in a room in which there are not humans, humans that she knows. So when it comes time to go she is faced with a delemia. Leaving to go outside or risk the wrath of moomy if caught going somewhere not so far away. Given that she is punished everytime she leaves (the anxiety cause by seperation) vs your wrath which is only occasionally when caught in the act which do you thing the dog is going to chose. Will you be able to fix this without addressing the punishment issue of the seperation anxiety? can you manage the situation by taking her out often enough with her meals, food water, exercise and sleep on a schedule, but defication on a verbal cue so she knows what she went out for, etc to prevent the problem. That is what you have to decided, is it easier to treat the seperation anxiety or to use a strict management protocol to avoid the seperation anxiety and avoid accidents in the house. Niether are easy.
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