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Discussion Starter #1
They now have a website, and appear to be not as reputable as I had first been led to believe...

http://www.smokeymtnbassets.com

Here's her old website too: http://smokeymtnbassets.tripod.com (I found the link to her 'new' one from there). On the "contact us" page she has an old puppy pic of Mocha howling taken at her place before the pups were sent here.

She has changed their name since sending me the pups, they were originally "Tokel's Bassets".

Also with this recent thing with Mocha, and I contacted her about it to tell her that she may want to have her animals checked over and she denied any connection what-so-ever and I haven't heard back from her since.

Now I find this website and she claims all her pups are "health guarenteed" ... yeah right.

She apparently has THREE bassets currently pregnant at the same time and is advertising pups ready in time for Christmas.

She had claimed that the pups were "CKC" and "AKC" registered when she sent them to me I had understood that to mean "Canadian Kennel Club" turned out it was "Continental Kennel Club" and there was no "AKC", also there are holes in the pedigree around the 4th generation ...

By the time the pups had gotten to us, I could not afford to send them back and the kids had already fallen in love with them (pretty much first sight). So I had taken what she had given me and hoped the rest would be fine.

Just goes to show - do your homework ... and then double check everything ... and don't be bought by a "friendly disposition" ... sometimes you can't just take someone at their word. Know your rights ... and know who/what you're getting into.

This was a very hard lesson to learn ...
 

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worst case: you end uo with a "basset" with a square head, skiiny and twisted front quarters, and a mean temperment.

bwat case: you love her/him no matter what, and despite any flaws she manages to integrate into your family,
 

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Whe I was looking for a Basset I called everyone in my state that was a member of the Basset Hound Club Of America. I also called the state where I moved from. People were more than happy to talk to me even if they didn't have any dogs available. After several phone calls I kept hearing the same names come up again. People talk, believe me, good or bad! I'm glad I did such good investigation. It really is worth all the work!

I'm sorry your situation didn't work out. It is easy to be taken in by an adorable Basset puppies face and a seemingly "nice" sweet person who sounds like they care. Hopefully by you sharing your experience you can save someone else from making the same mistake.
 

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Actually, there are loads of red flags on their web site. The fact that their dogs are all 'champion sired' and from 'champion lines', but haven't got any championships themselves speaks volumes. Mills and BYB's dupe people with that kind of talk all the time. It's immoral on so many levels, lying to potential buyers, breeding bitches too often and too many times, breeding dogs who are carrying severe genetic health issues. It's just awful. Denying any connection to Mocha's issues was probably a lie, too -- I'd be willing to be these people get calls about health problems quite a bit. But they've got your $$$$, and that's all they care about.

Do the pups they produce deserve loving homes? Yes, of course, they most definitely do. They also deserve to have good health, and their owners should experience the joy of a healthy companion. Just infuriates me that people like this continue to do wrong by everyone in their lives......
 

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Wow! Thank you for sharing your story. That totally stinks that you had to go through that and find out the hard way.

~Heather
 

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Discussion Starter #6
... so after 4 years ...

out of the blue I get a message in my FaceBook with regard to my original post in this thread. ... From Mocha and Beldin's breeder no less. :confused:

Apparently after all this time she "came accross" this website and wasn't happy with what I had wrote and wanted me to delete it.

I haven't been here much and in fact, before I got her message with the link back to this thread, I hadn't even been here I think for almost three years... since 2008 when I was still in Oshawa (I don't remember whether or not I was able to log in since we moved to New Brunswick?) Anyway, it's been a while. ((speaking of which I guess it's time for a Beldin update etc))

I thought I'd post her message to me anyway, and my reply. This kind of reopened some old wounds I guess ... the kids still miss Mocha. And getting her message when I did caught me off guard.

(To be fair, I can see that from her point of view she'd be upset too if she just came accross this after so long ... )

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Quote (her post):
I just found a interesting site that I am wondering about. http://www.basset.net/boards/general-basset-hound-discussion/10532-unfortunate-information.html. Why would you post this? All of this is false lies and I am speechless to say the least. I do not even know where to begin. Saying that I claim my puppies were health guarenteed "Yeah right". Saying that I told you that your pups were AKC/CKC, which I did not. I told you that Dad was AKC and Mom was CKC (continental kennel club) & you said that you did not care because you had no plans to breed ever. We spoke about this before your money was ever sent! I even sent you Beldin without you even paying a dime! And to say that when you got them you couldnt afford to send them back....why in the world would you even say this??? We talked for months and months on video chat and you showed me pictures, etc and then post theses lies??? Why? And to say that I never responded to you regarding Mochas condition is a BOLD FACE lie. I spoke with you over the phone and you said that you had already decided to let her go to a family at the vet. I asked you to keep me posted and I never heard from you. I am two thousand (was) plus miles away, what did you want me to do? From day one Christina I worked with you, was upfront with everything and you go and post this?? I just would appreciate some answers. I am beyond speechless. As far as "holes" in the pedigree in the 4th generation..I'm assuming you are talking about Daisys dad? Daisys dad was CKC (Continental) and I sent you what I had. This is all correct information. And this"They now have a website, and appear to be not as reputable as I had first been led to believe..." I am in shock!!! I sold you Mocha for 400.00, gave you Beldin upfront without you paying a DIME before you received him, which you then paid over a months period. Paid for part of the shipping since you could not afford to ship both and then this??? I would appreciate you deleting this post as this is 100% lies and not true what so ever. Thank you, Kelly

Also I do have there mom Daisy who is a healthy 8 yr old and grandma 10 yr old still living here with me today. ALL of my dogs live inside my home. ALL of my puppies are born in my bedroom. I just cannot even believe I came across this post......

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My reply:

Kelly, Sorry about the delay in my response, I don't have internet at home and basically get online from the library when I can in town.

First, that post was made 4 years ago. Back when Mocha got sick and I and the kids were still quite upset over it and I was looking for answers ... most of the information I was able to get was from the vets I was dealing with and the people on the basset board. Many of whom run basset rescues because of indiscriminate breeders and or owners.

-- Saying that I claim my puppies were health guarenteed "Yeah right". --

I said that because I was told that what Mocha had was a genetic inherited disorder ... the basset board and my vet told me that the breeder should be contacted and informed because due to how old Mocha was at the time genetic health issues should be addressed by or covered under a breeder health guarentee. When I contacted you about it, your main concern seemed to be denying any responsibility for it.

-- Saying that I told you that your pups were AKC/CKC, which I did not. I told you that Dad was AKC and Mom was CKC (continental kennel club) --

This may be a case of mis-communication then because to my reccolection you had told me that the pups were registered. Sorry if I misunderstood.


-- & you said that you did not care because you had no plans to breed ever. --

What I said I didn't care about was you had told me that there were some minor imperfections that would prevent Mocha or Beldin from being show dogs, etc. You told me they were "pet quality" which was fine with me. As for breeding them, I never had any intent to breed.

-- We spoke about this before your money was ever sent! I even sent you Beldin without you even paying a dime! --

You sent me Beldin because you said no one else wanted him because of his hernia and it would make him undesireable for breeders or showers. As I wasn't concerned with breeding or showing that wasn't an issue.

-- And to say that when you got them you couldnt afford to send them back....why in the world would you even say this??? We talked for months and months on video chat and you showed me pictures, etc and then post theses lies??? Why? --

Yes, we talked for months - then when Mocha was sick and I told you about it communication dropped off. You didn't respond as readily as you had done before ... you seemed uninterested in hearing about things after and I lost interest in keeping in touch because of how the whole thing was handled.

Mostly all I had to go on was the information and oppinions I was getting from the people on the basset board and my vet in how things should be and the differences between reputable breeders and mass breeders, etc. And taking care of my distraught children.

You've said maybe a paragraph of words to me in the last 4 years.

-- And to say that I never responded to you regarding Mochas condition is a BOLD FACE lie. I spoke with you over the phone and you said that you had already decided to let her go to a family at the vet. I asked you to keep me posted and I never heard from you. --

Yes, we spoke, I called while Mocha was still at the vet's and again, I didn't know what to do or how things should be handled or what ... I told you at the time what was told to me and it seemed to me at the time that mostly you were more interested in making sure you weren't being "blamed" for it. I couldn't continue on with the costs of Mocha's care at the vets for weeks, and I was not able to make the decision to have her put down so I signed her over to the vet and called you again to let you know.

My friends on the basset board were helpful and supportive and the vet told me that it should have been handled differently. After that I was mostly dealing with grieving children and trying to move on from it.

As far as deleting anything goes ... Until I got your message, I haven't even been to that forum since early 2008 when we were still in Ontario. From what I can see it's an old thread, probably archived and I don't have any access to deleting it.

I wasn't the only one who was sceptical of how things were handled with regards to Mocha ... as I said most of what I had to go on was from people who knew more about bassets, etc than I and have had experience with this sort of thing. With how often the dogs are bred, how many of them there are, etc ...

Yes, you were friendly and nice and yes you were willing to let me make payment arrangements for Beldin considering that your sending him wasn't part of our original arrangements, etc and I was very appreciative of it. I took what you told me at face value and trusted that I was getting two healthy bassets...

That's not what happened. The basset we had asked for in the first place had a genetic inherited disorder and we lost her due to it. It is still hard on the kids. Any time they come accross a picture of her or video clip - they still cry.

I have learned a lot from the basset site and the people there. Perhaps I wasn't as well informed as I should have been prior to making the arrangements I had with you in the first place.

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Thoughts?

Anyhow, while I'm here I want to take the opportunity to say "thank you" again to those that were there for me and the kidlets during all this (back when we were going through it in the first place) ... this forum was a great resource and all the information we got and care from you all was invaluable.
 

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Discussion Starter #8

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I'm sorry you had to lose Mocha. And I'm not even going to comment on the "lady" you got Beldin and Mocha from. It's ridiculous. I find it very suspicious that she stopped communication after you told her about Mocha's health issues. I'm sorry you and your kids still get upset when you see photos of Mocha. I couldn't imagine.
 

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i thought that bassets were prone to Addison's Disease, but I am not sure I knew that its presence represented a genetic defect.
 

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This is interesting, 4 out of 5 say articles its not inherited. With in this I have got to question, How old was she when she was hospitalized at the vet? And why were you not prepared for any vet bills that may incure so you don't hurt your children? Because it seems even in your words that you needed time to come up with 400$ for your second dog, that you would be prepared for something besides anual rabies or vaccinations if you even do them.
When we purchase a family pet, we don't expect big bills right off the bat. Did you join this forum just to give someone who lost a puppy a hard time? Most of us have had to make hard decisions about the health of a pet, and it is never easy, especially when there are children involved.
 

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Here are the causes. They are either genetic or autoimmune. If someone is going to breed puppies, they should be prepared and responsible for what their puppies come down with (ie. what kind of puppies you are making). Certainly as Catherine M says, no one expects to have to pay expensive vet bills in a puppy's 1st year of life. The congenital health guarantee SHOULD have covered Addison's disease (Addison's is not something that a healthy puppy "caught" in the dogpark from other dogs).

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Causes of adrenal insufficiency can be grouped by the way they cause the adrenals to produce insufficient cortisol. These are adrenal dysgenesis (the gland has not formed adequately during development), impaired steroidogenesis (the gland is present but is biochemically unable to produce cortisol) or adrenal destruction (disease processes leading to the gland being damaged).[2]
[edit]Adrenal dysgenesis
All causes in this category are genetic, and generally very rare. These include mutations to the SF1 transcription factor, congenital adrenal hypoplasia (AHC) due to DAX-1 gene mutations and mutations to the ACTH receptor gene (or related genes, such as in the Triple A or Allgrove syndrome). DAX-1 mutations may cluster in a syndrome with glycerol kinase deficiency with a number of other symptoms when DAX-1 is deleted together with a number of other genes.[2]
[edit]Impaired steroidogenesis
To form cortisol, the adrenal gland requires cholesterol, which is then converted biochemically into steroid hormones. Interruptions in the delivery of cholesterol include Smith-Lemli-Opitz syndrome and abetalipoproteinemia.
Of the synthesis problems, congenital adrenal hyperplasia is the most common (in various forms: 21-hydroxylase, 17α-hydroxylase, 11β-hydroxylase and 3β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase), lipoid CAH due to deficiency of StAR and mitochondrial DNA mutations.[2] Some medications interfere with steroid synthesis enzymes (e.g. ketoconazole), while others accelerate the normal breakdown of hormones by the liver (e.g. rifampicin, phenytoin).[2]
[edit]Adrenal destruction
Autoimmune adrenalitis is the most common cause of Addison's disease in the industrialized world. Autoimmune destruction of the adrenal cortex is cause by an immune reaction against the enzyme 21-hydroxylase (a phenomenon first described in 1992).[7] This may be isolated or in the context of autoimmune polyendocrine syndrome (APS type 1 or 2), in which other hormone-producing organs such as the thyroid and pancreas may also be affected.[8]
Adrenal destruction is also a feature of adrenoleukodystrophy (ALD), and when the adrenal glands are involved in metastasis (seeding of cancer cells from elsewhere in the body, especially lung), hemorrhage (e.g. in Waterhouse-Friderichsen syndrome or antiphospholipid syndrome), particular infections (tuberculosis,[9] histoplasmosis, coccidioidomycosis), deposition of abnormal protein in amyloidosis.
[edit]
 

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Oh by the way this now is posting # 5
I can tell. The website tells us how many posts each individual has made. This was also the most coherent thing you have written so far.

Whether you joined this community to defend yourself or not, you are harassing someone who is only presenting the facts on their side of the story - and who lost a puppy due to what appears to be less-than-scrupulous breeder practices. If you're looking for sympathy or are trying to bowl us over with your outrage via capital letters, please stop. Whatever you need to say, say it in a private message and quit posting such dramatic and inflammatory threads.
 

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You have left me just speechless.
Me too.

bassets#1, you don't have to agree with the context of the posts, but for heaven's sake, please try be a little more civilized about it. Personal attacks do nothing but incite.
 

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wow i missed something apparently but I'm not coming back to this thread.
see y'all in the cute flat basset thread!
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
I can't see any of the posts you guys are responding to by "bassets#1" ... is it possible to block someone from seeing your posts? All I've seen are the quotes in some of your responses ...

An update: this morning there was a message waiting for me telling me that she'd now be willing to replace Mocha with a pup of "equal value".....

... and yes, I do take the animals in for their check ups and boosters and regular visits, thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
So apparently in her oppinion the entire thing was misunderstandings on my part, and that as far as she is concerned the post I made with regard to what happened is "slander" and she'd now be willing to stand by a breeder one year contract and replace Mocha with a pup of equal value. She is claiming that she had no knowledge of what was happening (even though I called her and told her) ... and that I didn't give her a chance to fix it. She also informs me that she is no longer breeding Mocha's mother.

This was my response:

I did call you and the basic response was "well what do you expect me to do about it" ... Looking at it from your point of view, I realize you were busy with your own baby, etc -

but from my point of view, after calling you and the the tersness of your responses and seeming lack of caring, is it really any wonder at the time that I didn't keep calling you?

What I said wasn't slanderous. Slander is defined as "purposefully malicious, false report, starting rumour, or to attempt to falsely negatively defame a person's character"...

I was not starting rumours, nor did I spread any "malicious false reports". I never "attacked" you or your character, I was stating what was happening at the time and based on your responses to my calls how I was feeling about what we were dealing with and going through.

I dealt with it back then ... I never asked you for a penny and do you really think that now after all these years I'm going to want another puppy? Perhaps it would have been different if you had made the offer back when this all happened instead of years later and only after you "came across" the post in the basset forum.
 
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