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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, so I've been working with Gracie a little bit. She 11 weeks now. She know the commands "sit" and "bark". I taught her sit first and she's known that for a few weeks. And bark is about a week old. I wasnt sure what I should teach first or how I should go about it. But I decided sit seemed like a good start. I have her sit and "wait" for her food, until I say,"ok".(I try and match my "ok" with her attetion span) We've been doing that for a few weeks and I've stretched the "Wait" time a little longer. I also have her sit so I can clip the leash and sit to unclip it. I taught her to bark because I wanted to teach a "potty" signal. So now before I take her out to potty I have her bark before I will open the door.
I would actually prefer a "whine" at the door. But, it seems that teaching her to whine on command is a little harder than what I thought. So decided to go with the bark for now since it's easier. I was going to get a clicker this weekend and try "targeting". I was just wondering if I'm pushing too much. Or expecting too much out of her. Also if anyone had any sort of training advice.
What do you wish you taught your dog when it was a puppy? What sort of things should I focus on? Am I going in the right direction? I just feel really unsure about this training thing and wanted some input.

And how do the things you teach them in training transfer over into obedience? Like everyone says how important it is to teach a reliable recall. Well, I had a dog that knew "come" very well. She would actually sit and wait in another room on the other side of the house til I called her. It was a fun game we played. And she got treats. But it never transfered to obedience. She only listened when there was a treat. And when the treat was more interesting than what she was doing.

Ok well, I wrote y'all a novel. Sorry 'bout that. I would appreciate your input though. :D
 

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"Leave it" and "come" are essential training for safety reasons. Those are what I would recommend.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Oh yeah. I forgot we've been working on "leave it" too. I put a pile of kibble or treats on the floor. I put my hand over the top and say,"leave it". I move my hand and if she goes to sniff it I put my hand back over it and say,"leave it" and move my hand again. Then she lays there(about 2ft away) and stares at it and whines. Then she gets a really good treat. Am I going about that the right way? I'm just afraid it will just end up being a trick. And when I actually need to use it she wont listen.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Oh and do I need to only work on one new thing at a time? Or can I be teach multiple things? Like if I get the clicker and try "capturing" can I still be teaching something else?
 

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Like if I get the clicker and try "capturing" can I still be teaching something else?
yes but but you need to keep a few things in mind If you are capturing a behavior there is a period of time you are asking the dog to offer the behavior because it has been rewarded but have not taught a cue for it. If you were to attempt to capture two behaviors at the same time it could be confusing to the dog. and you gan get some weird behavior that you did not intend such as captured behavior 1 must always occur befoer captured dehavior two. That or context becomes import for the dog to differentiate that is capture behave 1 only in the kitchen and capture behavior two on in the living room etc. Nothight is insurmountable that it can not be worked through but you need to think how the teach of one behavior may or may not effect the training of another

Say you were capturing one behavior abd luring another there is less area of conflict for instance. The lure bemoce somewhat of a contextual cue for the behavior. So if for instance during a capturing sension the dog offers the lured behavior you don;t have the delemia of whether to reward the behavior or not and what effect it will have on future training. because you only want the lured behavior in when the lure is present.

Training Different Behaviors in a Single Session

Opportunities to Reward

Puppies are much easier to teach than adolescents but form reason I never understood most obedience class the dog must be at least an adolescent to attend. For instance teaching a adlolecent a formal heel is difficult enough but you must also teach them to sit aoutomatical when you stop moving as well. This often involves first teaching them to sit beside you on command an then fading the cue a very slow process that is not alway successful. With a puppy what happens natural when you stop moving. Tey stop bet tired and the but hit the ground reward and soon you have a dog that sits automatically with out much imput or effort.

I was going to get a clicker this weekend and try "targeting".
Use any tools that you like, a verbal marker works such as {yes} just not as percise as a click. That said I don't use a clicker for target training unless working at a distance. Even then I would more than likely opt for the newer remote treat dismensors on the market than using a clicker to bridge the delay from behavior to reward.


MannersMinder Remote Reward Training System


Ready Treat Remote-controlled Reward System

Touch It Electronic Nose Touch Trainer

SHAPE YOUR TARGET CUE

And how do the things you teach them in training transfer over into obedience?
not sure what you mean

Well, I had a dog that knew "come" very well. She would actually sit and wait in another room on the other side of the house til I called her. It was a fun game we played. And she got treats. But it never transfered to obedience. She only listened when there was a treat.
This is a training issue that many simply do not understand and often blame it on food or using food in training when that is not the problem. This is what happens. Befor training with food the owner handler goes through an elaborate ritual of getting ready geting food out of the refridge cutting it up etc. What people don't realize is this becomes part of the context for the behavior for the dog That is I come when called only after owner has prepared treats, that is what the dog has learned Dogs are great discriminators the are great much better than humans at disecting what is different about things and acting accordingly. Humans on the other hand are great at looking at howthing are similar and apply what is learned in one contect to another. Dogs are not good at this. The need to learn the same thing over and over again in different contexts before they will generalize a behavior. hence the but he is so good at home, back yard etc. Exactly but if that is only where you train that is only where the dog will be good. You need to be contious of the context in training and vary them all the time when training to end up with a reliable behavior see

The Sit Test
The purpose of the "Sit Test" is to provide an objective assessment of performance-reliability for basic obedience commands. Why? So that instead of reprimanding the dog for "misbehaving," the trainer steps back and reflects on the real reasons for the dog's "disobedience," i.e., lack of proofing and reliability training prior to pattern training. Many trainers have an inflated view of their dog's reliability because during practice, performance reliability is assessed by subjective means. The trainer tends to remember the good and forget the bad. Moreover, following an objective assessment of reliability during obedience trials, failed exercises are frequently dismissed as bad luck

...Even minor changes in routine can produce dramatic decreases in reliability. For example, it is easy to demonstrate that an OTCh dog doesn't really know what "Sit" means. Dogs are extremely fine discriminators. If the dog has been taught to "Sit" for supper in the kitchen, or to heel-sit and front and finish in obedience class, that's precisely what the dog learns -- to sit in the kichen and in class. The same dog may occasionally not sit in the obedience ring, while playing in the park, or while greeting visitors at the front door. The dog must be trained in an infinite number of situations for it to generalise the "Sit" command to all instances. (This is in marked contrast to people, many of whom will generalise at the drop of a hat - sometimes from a single experience).
To illustrate, I devised a simple test a Sit Test -- nothing fancy, no bizarre or frightening distractions, just minor variations in what the dog expects. I chose "Sit" because it is the easiest command to teach a dog and probably the first command that many dogs learn. Also, using "Sit" enables Novice, Open, Utility and pet-trained dogs to compete in the same test. [/url]

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2002/generalization.htm
Generalization versus Discrimination

Generalization and Discrimination: Fraternal Twins

TRAINING WITH FOOD

If you want the dog to respond in the real world with real world distraction then you have to train under those conditions as well. Certainly you cann't start training under a mountain od distraactions but as the dog becomes mopre profiecient you need to incease distraction.


DEPOSITS INTO THE PERFECT RECALL ACCOUNT​


DISTRACTIONS FOR YOUR RECALL

LIST OF REINFORCERS​


SAY YES TRAINING REMINDERS

Pay particular attent to 1,2, 4, 8,and 9 The reminders are in a bit of short hand if you need further explaination just ask for instance 15 Got D.A.S.H.] has to do with the progression of training

D=desire that is the dog must first be motivated.

a= accuracy the first step in training is teach an accurate behavior

S- Speed you must have accuracy before you can have speed when working through training a dog will never be fast until the have a clear understanding on how to performe the desired behavior

H= Habituation you need the fisnished behavior accurate and fast before taking it on the road to other locations and under increaseing distraction In order to train you want to maintain a high rate of reinforcement. that can be done under distracted or new context unless the behavior is strong to begin with under less distracting and familiar locations.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
not sure what you mean
It's ok. You answered it anyway. I meant that I didn't know how to make her follow commands outside the training session. The generalization thing makes sense though.

I know I ask the silliest questions. But, I really do appreciate all the input. I've already started reading those articles and they're making a lot of sense. I'm feeling better about our training. I think I might actually be able to do this! It's exciting!:D
 

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The "leave it" command...the best command I ever taught Molly (and am teaching Winston). It's tough because if it's food they need to leave, you gotta be able to train them to listen to you instead of go with what they REALLY want. To that end, I am still working on Molly.
 

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completely agree with teaching the "leave it" command. Especially with food. My Molly does so well when I tell her to leave it for toys, clothes, my phone:rolleyes:. But if it's food, forget it. That hound tummy of her's just won't listen! Lol
 

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But if it's food, forget it
it all about teaching self control and using food as a distraction Rather than teaching a leave it which mean real you can have what you find unless I tell you otherwise it is often easier to go the other way and train the dog that it is only allowed food in the environment when it comes from you. In order for this to work however you need to be emaculate and consitent in not allowing the dog to self reward with found food while your still training the behavior and your not there to supervise. It is one of those things that is much easier to say than actually carry out.

see the progression in the

I find teach what I referre to a negative ie ( not to do something) difficult because the dog has a miriad of other bad choices it can make that are under the criteria of cue should be reward but you don't want to. Rather than "leave it" i ifind a attention behavior looking up at you etc. a positive single easy to define criteria much easier to train and accomplishes the purpose if the dog is looking at you it can be grabing the piece of food off to its lefts etc. When observing dogs And owners work IMHO most of the time the dog does not understand no or leave it that it is simply how the cue is delivered that it is a disruptive stimuli. It cause the dog to stop for a minute which give the owner the chance to either train a more appropriate behavior. or ask for an incompatible behavior which then prevent the unwanted behavior. \

For most that is a disctinction the do not find relavent. But when diagnosing a brackdown as is why the dog did not follow the cue etc I think it becomes important.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
lol. I watched that video. I like the blooper at the end. When she steals the treat while her momma's not looking. It's funny cause the video made her look like this perfect dog...but, she's still a dog.
 
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