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How many of you use time outs for bad behavior? We were told that when Cooter gets too wild with his playing and biting we should put him on a lead in the house as a time out. And do this over and over again to stop the habit.

Anybody else use this technique and has it worked. Thanks.
 

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Unless you're right on top of him every time when he does whatever it is, and immediately do the time out, I don't think he'll make the connection. It's better to distract than punish. If he's getting on the counter, for example, one of George's favorite things, find something else for him to do. I've learned to swear by George's Kong biscuit ball. He LOVES that and will chase it all over the house and that tires him out as well as gives him treats, so when he's played with it a while, he'll lie down for a while and be quiet. We tried putting George outside on his lead for a while when he was getting obnoxious :D but it didn't help. Giving him something else to do helps enormously.
 
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I think it's important to remember that while we love our furbabies like children - they are not children - they are dogs. I am skeptical that "time out" which requires reasoning and logic would really be effective for training purposes. I'm much more into immediate consequences and vigilence on my part.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Ok, well were taking doggie classes and that's what the trainer recommended but it doesn't seem to be working.

We have class tonight so I will talk to her about it. Thanks
 

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unclear on the concept how is the leash punishing the dog. Perhaps you have confused the advice. Nipping and mouthing are often attention seeking behaviors. Many of those that advocate no physical punishment still use punishment.

In behaviorist term if you add something it is positive (plus for adding) and if you remove something it is negative. You can reward a behavior or punish a behavior and when you do so you either add something or take it aways. So positive punishment means you add something to punish the dog like a swat with a rolled up newspaper or you can take something away like your attention and that is called negative punishment. This is what is used by so called "reward/praise based" trainers. The leash in this case is a tool to accomplish the isolation. It does not really matter if the dog is taken away or the people leave, In the case of a single person it is often eaiser to isolate the dog where he is, in a family situation it is often easier to move the dog.

Another varriation on this theme is You won the Prize which is useful for those that have a hard time punishing a dog. You do not punish the dog - nope - instead you reward him with something he does not want, happily and cheerfully. Dog nips yippee he gets quality time alone away for the rest of the family. Dog pulls on leash - yippee he gets to go in the opposite direction. For many it is easier to be consistent rewarding the dog for a behavior. If that is the case "you won the prize" is for you.


I am skeptical that \"time out\" which requires reasoning and logic would really be effective for training purposes
A but it does not. You must consider the behavior and the cause. IF attention is the cause of the behavior then that behavior is much less likely to occur if it has the complete opposite effect. For social creatures issolation can be a very forceful punisher. One must be careful what we often consider punishment the dog might find rewarding. Dog jumps up for attention, We swat dog on snout, push dog away, hollar at dog, quess what we just engaged and interacted with the dog just what he wanted. better to turn your back on the dog and leave. As soon as all four feet hit the ground and stay there reward the dog.

The one problem I do see in timeout is when you must interact with the dog to administer it. Fumble to but the lead on etc. The dog should have the lead on already or at a minimum a short thab that can be used too take the dog into the issolation area quitely, calmly with little or no emotion. This can be very hard to do, it is why many find that instead of looking at it as punishment consider it a reward for that behavior. The one caveate that a dog that spends most of its time alone may not find issolation much of a punishment. Every dog is different, the thing with punishment is excluding extinction burst which come from ignoring behavior if it is going to be effective result are observable and a reduction of the behavior happens quickly. If not the it is not punishing to the dog. Again the exception is ignoring behavior which at first will have the very opposite effect> Just like the light switch, every time you turn it on the light goes on, then one day you flip the switch and the light doesn't turn on what do you do. Say oh that doesn't work and continue on your way in the dark. Or get a bet fustrated that it doesn;t work an flip the switch again and again and again. maybe a little faster, no - how bout slower no push the swtich a little left, a little right ok the switch doesn't work. You may ever once and awhile try it just to see if it works. If it does you back to using it again. if not it will be even longer before you try again. People that don'k know about or understand this phenonom see the behavior getting worse assume ignoring the behavior is not working aand go on to try something else whien in fact this sharp escalation of the behavior is actual a sign the method is working.
 
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Mikey T.:
Are you a animal behaviorist? You always give behaviorally based advice and I am just curious. I am taking classes in human behavior for my master's degree and have done research on time out with children but not with dogs. I have been trying to use extinction with Byron and jumping on the couch. It is hard to withdraw all attention, especially when his is about to push my pictures and teapot from the ledge behind the couch that separate the livingroom from my downstairs foyer; I must intervene.
 

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Alicia, if you're interested in learning theory as applied to dogs, pick up a copy of How Dogs Learn (ISBN 0-87605-371-1) by Mary R. Burch, Ph.D. and Jon S. Bailey, Ph.D. Burch is certified as an animal behaviorist and Bailey was (and maybe still is?) a psych professor at FSU, at the time the book was written. It's a great read. :)
 

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Mikey T.:
Are you a animal behaviorist?
Certtainly not, not even a professional dog trainer,


You always give behaviorally based advice and I am just curious
I find a behavioral approach easier to implement. The beauty of a behaviorst approach is there is no need to no the unknowble, why!. We can specluate why a problem occured but we can neve know with certainty what the dog is thinking. To many other approaches expect you to be able to answer the question why. In a behaviors model all that is important is the behavior and the stimuli that cause it why it happen is of little value.

[ April 13, 2006, 01:22 AM: Message edited by: Mikey T ]
 

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I doubt the dog associates the time out with the behavior but it is possible. I too have several places in the house to tether Bessie to the wall and yet she is still with the family as a pack. and it gives me a time out from having to keep a close eye on Bess but I always have at least an casual eye on her...lol... I also found it useful with company. she can be near but not the center of attention unless we desire it. She howled the first time we did that with company but she is use to it now.
 

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With our rescue we deal with lots of different dogs... some dogs respond to time outs some don't. I disaggree with the leash thing though as most dogs think a leash is a good thing... cause they get to go for a walk.

We have a chair (recliner style) which no one sits in... as a time out we put the dog in it and make them stay until we feel they have been punished enough for their bad deed. We have had dogs actually have tears because they are in the time out chair.
 

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Originally posted by Wilson:
We have a chair (recliner style) which no one sits in... as a time out we put the dog in it and make them stay until we feel they have been punished enough for their bad deed.
:D Reminds me of the Monty Python Spanish Inquisition sketch. :D

[ April 14, 2006, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: Betsy Iole ]
 

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I'm not sure about using the leash as the "time out". Our trainer recommended and I know others who have used this method. That when you are home to supevise your basset they wear a light leash around the house. This is supposed to make it easier for you to help redirect whatever unwanted activity they are doing at a time. For example if you or a child has dropped something on the floor you can use your "leave it" command and then be able to more easily have control of the dog by using the leash. Particularly if they are out of reach of your getting a hold on the collar. You can then guide them away from the item on the floor until they learn their "leave it" command.
The time out, we were taught was something to be used in extreme cases such as biting, it has to be swift to work, and the dog must be seperated from everyone in the house for a short period of time. I don't know if this works for everyone. It has worked for me, my basset and bulldog.
But, you have to find what works best for you and your situation.
Best of luck!
 
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