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Have any of you guys heard of this? He's a dog trainer and is on TV occasionally. I just caught the end of something yesterday. He was talking about a way to sort of gently "pinch" a dog behind the neck to get him to calm down. I think it's supposed to be like a Mama dog picks up a puppy or something.

It sounded like a training theory. Have any of you tried it?
 

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You are speaking of Cesar Millan, who has been discussed here. I love watching him. It is amazing what he does. I saw the episode your speak of. Although they warn to not "try the techniques at home," I have tried the pinch on Spencer when he growled at me once. He stopped immediately. I think Cesar explained it as how the dominant dog would correct another who was overstepping his boundaries.
 
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I am going to order his book, just to see what his theories are. I found the website and it seems like he has some good things to say.

There are a few hilarious clips of his show. He really does seem to have a way with the dogs.
 
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We love to watch his show and have tried a few things on Annie and nothing has worked for us but we still enjoy his show!

Kathy
 

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" I think Cesar explained it as how the dominant dog would correct another who was overstepping his boundaries. "

Dogs in dominance displays use no physical contact

also note the book "The Dog Whisperer" was not written by Ceasar Millan nor are the techniques used the same as he uses.

Our Exclusive Interview With Paul Owens, The Dog Whisperer

Raise with Praise®, Inc.

[ March 21, 2006, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: Mikey T ]
 

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I have also watched him a few times and have tried his techniques with Copper and nothing from his show has ever worked with us either.

[ March 21, 2006, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: copsmom ]
 

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I think Cesar Milan saw a way to make some $$$$, but I wouldn't pay two cents for his advice.

The REAL dog whisperer may have some merit.....
 

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He was talking about a way to sort of gently "pinch" a dog behind the neck to get him to calm down. I think it's supposed to be like a Mama dog picks up a puppy or something.
I have never seen a mother dog do this.
 

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He doesn't actually pinch the dog-he does not advocate using pain or physical punishment -at least not in any episodes that I've seen. He sort of uses his hand in the shape of a mouth to TOUCH the dog behind the neck or sometimes on the rear. He does this in addition to using a firm tone (not threatening)to get the dogs attention. He actually stresses using calm , firm tones and confident body language to help assert the human as the pack leader. He encourages owners to be calm assertive with their dogs. On all the shows I've seen he works with dogs who have severe behavioral issues-aggression, possesiveness, fear and so on. His position seems to be that the human should try to communicate though body language in ways similar to the ways dogs communicate with each other. He demonstrates these dog to dog interactions with his own "pack" of about a gazillion or so dogs.The ghist of his philosophy seems to be that a calm, assertive human pack leader makes for a calm, even tempered pet. I actually love many of his ideas. Some (not all unfortunately) of his ideas have really helped me with my 0livia.He also emphasizes the idea of excersize. He says a tired dog is a good dog. something I read on this board quite alot.
 

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The three things he advocates are exercise, discipline and affection. In that order. I think about 99% of the people on this board (myself included) lack the second one. He talks about dogs being animals and to treat them like one. He is amazing with what he does to dogs but I will take a spoiled Miss Emma in bed with me all the same. :D

[ March 21, 2006, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: Miss Emmas Daddy ]
 

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I have to weigh in on the pro Cesar side. Alot of what he advocates is just good common sense- not letting the dog control your home, maintaining boundaries, and remembering that the dog is a dog, not a human baby. Some of the shows I've watched have shown people who actually allowed their dogs to bite their children, destroy furniture to the point that they were sitting on the floor because their couch was just a wooden frame, and generally run the household.I think the show is a reminder to just use good common sense in relating to your animals.After watching this show and seeing some truly bizarre situations, I've concluded that there are some people out there in TV land who really do need to consider his perspective.

[ March 21, 2006, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: murraysmom ]
 
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I vote for Ceasar too. His show is for entertainment and information. He takes a behaviorist point of view and relies on calm assertiveness to gain control of a dogs behavior. I think he is great with dogs and offers good advice to the pet owners. I have learned to be consistent with consequences, postive and negative. The most important things I have learned from the show is to exercise Byron regularly and withold affection until he is calm, therefore reinforcing calm behavior instead of jumping or barking. I love his show; it makes me appriciate Byrons good nature even more.
 

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Dogs displaying dominance use NO physical contact? I beg to differ on that!!!!
 

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I have used Cesar's techniques to end the constant struggle over clipping Daisy's nails. It worked for us. In one sitting, she became calm and stopped fighting the clippers. I must say I was surprised, as I have always viewed his methods with a grain of salt.

Edited to add that I have observed wolves in a natural pack situation apply teeth to each other's neck, very gently, to assert dominance. This is usually accompanied by a very specific body posture and vocalization.

[ March 21, 2006, 07:56 PM: Message edited by: Marcia ]
 

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I have to weigh in on the pro Cesar side. Alot of what he advocates is just good common sense- not letting the dog control your home, maintaining boundaries, and remembering that the dog is a dog, not a human baby.
I have no problem with what he does just the rational for it. Positive energy and negative energy is a but of crap. Many of those that have done extensive studies on wolfs and dogs are seriously question the whole "pecking order" "pack heirarchy" thing. One in the wild wolf do not form a traditional pack. The pack consists of a breeding male and breeding female and off spring 2 years and younger. When the off spring mature the go off and form there own for a lack of a better term family unit.
Alpha Status, Dominance, and Division of Labor in Wolf Packs
"The prevailing view of a wolf (Canis lupus) pack is that of a group of individuals ever vying for dominance but held in check by the "alpha" pair, the alpha male and the alpha female. Most research on the social dynamics of wolf packs, however, has been conducted on non-natural assortments of captive wolves. Here I describe the wolf-pack social order as it occurs in nature, discuss the alpha concept and social dominance and submission, and present data on the precise relationships among members in free-living packs based on a literature review and 13 summers of observations of wolves on Ellesmere Island, Northwest Territories, Canada. I conclude that the typical wolf pack is a family, with the adult parents guiding the activities of the group in a division-of-labor system in which the female predominates primarily in such activities as pup care and defense and the male primarily during foraging and food-provisioning and the travels associated with them"

Journal of Applied Animal Welfare Science - A Fresh Look at the Wolf-Pack Theory of Companion-Animal Dog Social Behavior
"A popular perspective on the social behavior of dogs in multiple-dog households sees the dogs' behavior as reflecting the sociobiological laws of the rigidly structured dominance hierarchy that has been described for wolf packs. This view suggests that aggression problems among dogs are natural expressions of conflict that arise whenever dominance status is in contention. One recommended solution has been for the owner to endorse and enforce a particular dominance hierarchy because, on the wolf pack model, aggression is minimized when the structure of the hierarchy is clear, strong, and stable. This article questions the validity of this perspective on 2 principal grounds. First, because it does not seem to occur in the wild, this article suggests the strong dominance hierarchy that has been described for wolves may be a by-product of captivity. If true, it implies that social behavior—even in wolves—may be a product more of environmental circumstances and contingencies than an instinctive directive. Second, because feral dogs do not exhibit the classic wolf-pack structure, the validity of the canid, social dominance hierarchy again comes into question."

Most of the studies of wolves that the heirarchy theories developed are artifical created packs of wild wolves in captivity. It is well known that captivity often does produce bizzare and unnatural behaviors.

He takes a behaviorist point of view
Hardly a behaviors cares not a wit why an animal does what he does because it can never be know for certain why. What is know is the behavior. They then set about changing the behavior generally using operant conditioning. see Behaviorism
"Behaviorism is both a psychological movement and a philosophy. The basic premise of radical behaviorism is that the study of behavior should be a natural science, such as chemistry or physics, without any reference to hypothetical inner states of organisms."

An applied ethologist studies the relationship between people and domestic animals. if you look at the link you will find pack order and heirarchies are products of Ethologist not behaviorist.

He doesn't actually pinch the dog-he does not advocate using pain or physical punishment
Whether you want to hear it or not a correction via a choke chain which occured in every episode I've seen is physical punishment and causes pain. This does not mean it is unsafe, unethical, inhumane or ineffect. Just calling a spade a spade.

Debunking the Dominance Myth
"Second, the researchers observed what are now known to be ritualistic displays and misinterpreted them. The bulk of dominance mythology comes from these misinterpretations. Take alpha rolls. The early researchers thought that the higher-ranking wolf forcibly rolled subordinate wolves to exert his dominance. Modern studies have shown that alpha rolls are part of an appeasement ritual offered voluntarily by the subordinate wolf, not forced by the superior. A subordinate wolf offers his muzzle, and when the higher-ranking wolf “pins” it, the subordinate rolls over and presents his belly. There is no force. Canine behaviorist Jean Donaldson, author of the award-winning book The Culture Clash, says, “The truth is, there is not one documented case of a wolf forcefully rolling another wolf to the ground. Nor is there one case of a mother wolf (or dog) ‘scruff-shaking’ her puppies.”

A wolf would flip another wolf against its will only if he were planning to kill it. The same goes for a mother shaking her pup by the scruff. Both are rare events."

The Macho Myth
"For example, snapping, pilo-erection, growling and lip-curling are often misconstrued as signs of dominance, whereas they are, in fact, more usually signs of fear"

Dogs displaying dominance use NO physical contact? I beg to differ on that!!!!
There is a big difference between a dominance disply and a fight. the purpose of the display is to avert violence/fight/physical contact

The Myth of Alpha (Part 1)

The Myth of Alpha (Part 2)
 
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I enjoy the show. He is amazing with dogs! I also learned a worn out dog from a walk is calmer. Then Tummy comes up to bed with me. I wrap him up with a blankie and we watch the Xfiles. The show calms us down to sleep ( a joke) I think. :eek: :eek: Happy to be a slave for Tummy Boy.
 

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I think Cesar Milan saw a way to make some $$$$, but I wouldn't pay two cents for his advice.

The REAL dog whisperer may have some merit.....
Probably not have not read the book but just this review from a source who's oipinion I trust.
" don't use illicit drugs, but I imagine that if I did, Paul Owens The Dog Whisperer might be my favorite book. No, there's nothing in the book that implies drug use, but I couldn't help but think that one would have to be really, really stoned to enjoy the content

...The author combines okay training advice with a lot of New Agey babble about love and enlightenment. If this is your cup of tea, great. If you simply want to read a dog training manual, you'll find this one terribly wearisome. "

That new age babble about energy and enlightment must be a whisperer thing. :roll:
 

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Thanks, Mike. Read the review -- let's just say the Dog Whisperer ain't my kinda trainer!!!
 

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It's an interesting show, but it IS only a TV show. I wouldn't watch Dr. Phil or Oprah to get marital advice, and I would not watch the Dog Whisperer to correct beahvior problems with Moe. Such problems need to be individualy evaluated by an experienced individual in person before taking a course of action to correct it (with humans AND animals).

Take Ceasar for what he is right now, which is an enertainer. Watch the show for the entertainment value only...

Terry
 

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Dogs displaying dominance use NO physical contact? I beg to differ on that!!!!
I did not say there was no physical contact, the older dogs will put their jaws over the younger dog's muzzle and make a lot of noise, the younger dog will attempt to melt into the floor. But the older dog is not physically holding the younger one down, the youngster is voluntarily submitting.
 
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