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So the twins were at the vet last week for there last round of puppy shots. We usually go to a non-proffit vet clinic where they only charge $20 for a visit. This time we did not see the doc b/c it was just for the puppy shots. The vet tech said that she used to work for a holistic vet and that the new thought on Spaying is to wait until the puppy is at least 1 year old, after her first cycle. Something to do with the incresed estrogen levels being good.

Then we were checking out and the lady processing the paperwork said that we should go ahead and schedule the Spay now (They are 16 weeks old). I said that I thought that it was better to wait until after their first cycle, to which she said no. She said that if you wait until a year old that it is very unhealthy due to the increased estrogen levels.

So needless to say we are confussed! Any thoughts?
 

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I'm no expert on this but seems to me that earlier the better for spaying. I think that Soundtrack may have written in on this at one time or another.
In our experience we were adcvised to have Pais spayed at 6 months and were planning to do it over the Christmas holidays when we could be home with her and then our vet clinic cancelled non-emergency surgeries over the holidays -- then wouldnt you know it she went into heat. We then had to wait for another month or so (can't remeber exactly). She got along just fine but I for one did't enjoy the "heat" experience and I am sure she did't either. I don't know but with having two little girls I think I would get it overwith before a heat cycle. I am sure that Bubbad, Soundtrack and Mikey will be able to give you the best advice since they have the most experience with breeding and non breeding.
 

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Usually ,at least when I worked for a Vet, it was about 5 months old because they didn't want them coming into season(heat)The higher estrogen level is what can cause problems with mammary tumors etc. Recovery is perfectly fine at this age.
 

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I've always spayed female dogs around 6 months. Boys (well, Winston is the only boy I've had) neutered between 5 and 6 months. Winston got snipped at 5 months. He was ready!

No recovery problems, except for Molly's UTI which cleared up quickly with antibiotics.
 

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I prefer to wait until 12 months. My vet recommends 12-15 months for all her large breed dogs. She said that it helps with their bone development.
 

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We had our two girls spayed at six months as our vet thinks this is the best age, before they have a season,
maybe other vets have different ideas on the best age! is 16 weeks not a bit young to put them through an op?
 

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We got Doppler neutered at around 6 months but Virga we got spayed at around 5 months because we (a) didn't want to go through a season with her and (b) we had done some research and found some information that said it's better to spay them early because with each season they go through, there's an increase of mammary tumors and whatnot. So that's when we do our surgeries. Doppler probably could have waited until he was a year old but we just went ahead and did it.
 

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If it were a pet female I would prefer to wait until she was mature (18 months to two years). Males do not need to be neutered at all, and tend to have more problems as a result of neutering than if they are not done. Females are more of a toss-up health wise. My own girls don't normally get spayed until 7-9 years of age, and then it's basically to avoid the nuisance of them coming into heat. I've only had one get a mammary tumor, which was removed and never returned. Three got uterine infections and had to be spayed early (between 3-6 years). The rest had no issues at all.
 

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Ninja and Scully are the 2 we got as puppies, and their vets recommended spaying at about 5-6 months, so that is what we did. (Larsen came to us without his "boys", which was just fine with me!)

With Ninja, according to the non-breeding contract we signed for her breeder, we were to have her spayed by 8 months of age, and send proof of spaying before 9 months of age.
 

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Our vet wants us to get poor flash neutered at about 7 months of age. Not sure what we are doing-we never had our rottie neutered and he was fine lol. But it also saves us 20 bucks a year on licensing the dog by having them "fixed". Guess we should probably look into the pros and cons of it!
 

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We'll save $35 on our city license, and it was practically impossible to find a border or doggy day care that would take him without being fixed. We had to take him for an interview first.
 

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I had Bowser neutered at 4 months, as soon as they would possibly let me because i didn't want his hormones kicking in. Not only do the males have more of a tendancy to hump if they are not cut, but they are hormonally more agressive in every breed we've ever had un-cut.
As for females, unless you're going to breed you should get them done as soon as possible in my opninion, becuase there is no need to have them have their hormones kick in at all if you're not breeding them. It's going to be easier on their bodies when they are younger, And easier on their bodies if they don't go through a hormone change, and then have that hormone taken away. Get them before it affects them.
Their physical body-growth should not be significantly affected by estrogen.

I would never have a male that I was not breeding, be un-fixed. It's just not necessary. One time of them getting lose or the neighbor's dog getting lose to come visit and you have unnecessary puppies, not to mention it's a fact that an unfixed male dog tends to be more sexually interested....that means marking/leg lifting, and a higher potential towards aggression.
Frankly I kind of think it's irresponsible to have an un-fixed dog of any sex if you are not actively breeding them.

If you're going to have it done, I don't see why doing it early could be anything but a benefit.

PS and i don't know if it's just bowser, but i have absolutely never ever had him mark any single thing, and he has never tried to hump or mount any dog, and he still squats and pees like a girl *lol*
I know humping can be a dominance thing too, but he doesn't seem to care about that at all! I'm really pleased he doesn't like to mark, though. I do actually attribute that to him being cut early!
 

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PS and i don't know if it's just bowser, but i have absolutely never ever had him mark any single thing, and he has never tried to hump or mount any dog, and he still squats and pees like a girl *lol*
I know humping can be a dominance thing too, but he doesn't seem to care about that at all! I'm really pleased he doesn't like to mark, though. I do actually attribute that to him being cut early!
Winston was cut at 5 months. I would have waited a little bit, but he was more than ready. Humping and aggression were starting to show up and it needed to be done. I never had any intention of breeding him, so why not? He's never marked either and yes, he squats and pees like a girl. Only lifts his leg to avoid stepping in his pee puddle :rolleyes:
 

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Flash has been doing the whole humping stuffed animals since he was about 3 months old :( Just recently he started doing that to my oldest son's leg (my poor sheltered son wanted to know why flash was hugging his leg and shaking his butt at the same time lol!! And my kid is 10)

Our rottie never did that to anything (that we saw anyway) and at one point we even had an unfixed female too (they were always kept separate if we were not home or if we noticed she was about to be in heat). Never had any puppies thank goodness and found her an awesome home (we took her so she didn't go to the pound actually, someone had to get rid of her or lose their house).
 

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yup mollymom...that's exactly why i wanted bowser done as soon as they would let me make the appointment, and i actually harassed them into letting me do it right at 4 months old. (that pic on his blog of him the cone of shame *lol*) i didn't want even one tiny ounce of bad boy in my bad baby boy! and he's stayed my sweet innocent little angel : ) as you know mowwy dear, he only likes girls as friends! hehe
 

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There is no Ideal age there is Pro and cons to the different ages and whether to do it or not The Mammary tumors are the biggest pro in support of spaying before the first heat cycle with incidents of tumor droping to about nil the risk continually increase after that . Spaying before maturity is going to effect the physical appear of the adult do it will retrain more juvinile appearace than that of a mature adult of the species. the growth plate closure is delayed there is some speculation that spaying/nuetering in the 6 month - mature time frame when some growth pate are already closed because growth plate close at different times that by spay/nuetering at this time could possible leat or cause som angular limb deformity keep in mind this is still speculative with the scientific though be hind it but stip speculative none the less. The earlier spayed dogs will be taller around 1/4 inch on average in one study, because of the delayed closure in growth plates.


On thing that can not be overlooke is the convience factor in the equation as well. How secure is the fence to prevent pregnancy. Coupling have been known to occur through open fences like chain link so a chain link fence with wander unnueter males in the naeighborhood by be secure in keeping the female in the yard but not so secure at preventing pregnency all these are consideration that an indivuale need to keep in mind one size solution does not fit all

Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete


Rebuttal to “Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete”



Long-Term Health Risks and Benefits Associated with Spay / Neuter in Dogs

The evidence shows that spay/neuter correlates with both positive AND adverse health effects in dogs. It also suggests how much we really do not yet understand about this subject. On balance, it appears that no compelling case can be made for neutering most male dogs, especially immature male dogs, in order to prevent future health problems​


...For female dogs, the situation is more complex. The number of health benefits associated with spaying may exceed the associated health problems in some (not all) cases. On balance, whether spaying improves the odds of overall good health or degrades them probably depends on the age of the female dog and the relative risk of various diseases in the different breeds​
...One thing is clear – much of the spay/neuter information that is available to the public is unbalanced and contains claims that are exaggerated or unsupported by evidence. Rather than helping to educate pet owners, much of it has contributed to common misunderstandings about the health risks and benefits associated of spay/neuter in dogs. The traditional spay/neuter age of six months as well as the modern practice of pediatric spay/neuter appear to predispose dogs to health risks that could otherwise be avoided by waiting until the dog is physically mature, or perhaps in the case of many male dogs, foregoing it altogether unless medically necessary. The balance of long-term health risks and benefits of spay/neuter will vary from one dog to the next. Breed, age, and gender are variables that must be taken into consideration in conjunction with non-medical factors for each individual dog. Across-the-board recommendations for all pet dogs do not appear to be supportable from findings in the veterinary medical literature.


...

Mammary tumors are by far the most common tumors in intact female dogs, constituting some 53% of all malignant tumors in female dogs in a study of dogs in Norway
15 where spaying is much less common than in the USA.

50-60% of mammary tumors are malignant, for which there is a significant risk of metastasis

16. Mammary tumors in dogs have been found to have estrogen receptors17, and the published research18 shows that the relative risk (odds ratio) that a female will develop mammary cancer compared to the risk in intact females is dependent on how many estrus cycles she experiences:
# of estrus cycles before spay Odds Ratio
None 0.005
1 0.08
2 or more 0.26
Intact 1.00
The same data when categorized differently showed that the relative risk (odds ratio) that females will develop mammary cancer compared to the risk in intact females indicated that:

Age at Spaying Odds Ratio
29 months 0.06
30 months 0.40 (not statistically significant at the P<0.05 level)
Intact 1.00
Please note that these are RELATIVE risks. This study has been referenced elsewhere many times but theresults have often been misrepresented as absolute risks.


 

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Frankly I kind of think it's irresponsible to have an un-fixed dog of any sex if you are not actively breeding them.
On the contrary, if you are truly responsible (dog is trained, you don't let them run loose, you don't leave a female in season unattended outside, you monitor their health status etc) then spaying/neutering is unnecessary and simply a convenience for the owner.
 

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I know humping can be a dominance thing too
Simply a projection onto dog behavior of thouse that think dogs society is governed by a dominance hieracrhy and dog behavior at least in part is seeking to obtain status. which has proven not to be the case in numerious studies and never once is the a study that these dominance proponents can point to, that makes their case

see Love and Mounting
 

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Humping and aggression were starting to show up and it needed to be done.
Se above humping is not a sex hormone linked activity. Early spay and nueter dogs engage in this behavior. As for aggreession the only aggression dyiad shwn to have any sex hormone predilection is quite simly intact male vs intacked males in studies there are a host of behavioral problems associate with nuetering over leaving the dog intacted and some of those have a bit of a aggression component.

most of the so called aggression in dog of the typical spay=mueter six month age is they are becoming adolescents which is going to happen if you spay early or not because it is more than fust a sex hormones thing.
 

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He's never marked either and yes, he squats and pees like a girl. Only lifts his leg to avoid stepping in his pee puddle
Females mark , males mark spayed and nueterd dogs Lifting a leg is not marking nor is it required to mark. Leg lifted is not even sex hormone related either but simple opservational learning

"DOG-ON-IT" LAWN PROBLEMS
Young dogs of both sexes frequently squat to urinate. Leg lifting is often learned by male dogs around a year of age; castration or neutering does not seen to affect nature’s timetable related to this behavior development. While most male dogs will hike their leg and mark once they are over a year of age, a few will continue to squat when urinating, which is more common in female
Scent Marking in Dogs

A Veterinary "Review" Article on Neutering, with Implications for Dalmatian Stone-Formers

. Dogs castrated at 40 days were compared during two to eight months of age to their sexually intact littermates in social behavior; no differences were seen in mounting, chasing, growling and playing. Dominance did not appear to be affected by early castration. Mounting behavior by bitches did not depend on the presence of estrogen.
 
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