Not with Maggie so far, turning away flips her chase switch, and results in back of the shoe, feet nipping.
I willing to bet it is because such action gets attention ie movement from you and or others remaining stationary usually works It is actually rare I turn because it is additional motion that can beget a response, some dogs and human do better with turn some not. Some dog will react to being observed, staring at etc so it is better to look up other it makes no difference. Its all about obeserving the dog and how it reacts to stimuli and/or the lack there are. There are typical dog behaviors in which general rules are constructed but certainly not all dogs play by the same rules so a respose general need to be tweeked slight for the individual dog The above is mention as tweeks to the be a tree, withdraw attention method that might have it work better for you. Also it is my experience that younster's tend to have trouble employing this technique because the can not stay still enough for it to work. It is not alway that the technique fails but rather the execution of the technique. Bottom line is you have to do what works for both you, your family and the dog and not continue something that does not work because some so called expert says that the way to do it.
Insight into Puppy Mouthing
And about the yelping out in pain technique. I hate when people suggest this as if it is the Holy Grail of stopping mouthing. It totally depends on why the dog is nipping, how you yelp and how they respond to the yelping. With some dogs this idea alone can stop nipping and play biting in its tracks. But as you have discovered there are other dogs who are simply more triggered by the response. And you actually escalate the intensity of the behavior.
We can't ever just say if a dog is doing X behavior that a handler should always do Y handling technique. It just never is that black and white.
Its all about probabilities. If a dog does X behavior and the response is Y technique than we can often say there is a high probability of a particular response happening with most dogs. There are some fundamental things that are very high probability that apply to many dogs that do nothing or get a completely opposite response from other dogs.
Run away there is a good chance the average dog will follow or chase. Squat down or make little cooing noises then the probability is high they will come closer. But you must always take into account the dog's personality, relationship, situation, current emotional and mental state, temperament and history.
Run away from another dog and them may take you down with a bite in the butt. Squat down for and make cooing sounds with an abused fear biter and you may loose your nose.
It looks complicated when plotting it out but in general people have a much better feel for what the dog's probabilities for certain things are then they do in applying that knowledge to specific situations.
90% of the time if I clearly define something for owners and ask what their dog will likely do, they have a wonderfully detailed knowledge of what their dog will probably do. But most people don't look at the perimeters objectively or with clarity and worse they fall into a pattern of waiting until the dog has done the thing they don't want that they knew was probably going to happen. They then respond to what the dog did even though they could have predicted the Undesired response a week ahead of time.
bold added for emphysis this does a better job of explaining the variability and why there is always more than one way to train. but the bold section speaks to my point in the early post of not wating till the pup is too overexcited in play to control itself but stop or slow down the play before that stage is reached. Once the dog has more control then you can slowly esculate the excitement level of play. That should be the goal but it is understood that no one is going to be 100% perfect in this regard either so you still need something that works when the dog is overly excited.
She has learned not to jump up on Simon (8yr old) but to approach him all wiggly butt on the floor, at least most of the time
while jumping up is a normal dog behavior it is also a learned reinforced behavior. by having your son and others only reward the dog with attention when she appraoches and remains with all four feet on the ground will end the jumping behavior. This is especial important with stragers or new people she meets. It is not unusual to find a dog that does not jump on family members but will on all guests because quite simply guest reward the behavior and family members don't
If you have not done so you should investigat puppy kindergarten classes in the area. A well run puppy class, provides socialization with other dog which is still important, socialialization with other people, and training under distracted situations. all very good foundational building blocks for a perfect dog.
She has even shown the self control of watching him and his sister eat a snack, lying a few feet away with some huffy sighs.
If you ever plan to train the dog with food, which I highly recommend with basset the following video about self control and train self control around food is critical it also helps in situation like above.
I went to the library and came home with a sack full of books over the weekend.
Its likely there is going to be conflicting information between book and in case of some older book techniques that have become out of favor because of the effect they can have on "softer" dogs You need to keep in mind when deciding what to try and what to discard Do you think it will work for your dog given its personality and what you know about how it reacts to certain stimuli.
Is it a technique I am comfortable with from a moral, physical and compentency perspective. that is, is it a technique You are comfortable using, something that you are capabile of performing. and have the competency to perform. Shaping for instance is a none punishment technique most are comfortable using and it requires no special skill other than a moderate level of timing, but compentency in it is rarely garnered from simply reading I find most need a class with feedback from instructs to really become profiencent enough to be effective. It is why I general don't go into any detail about use that technique here because in the end I don;t think it is effective for most without some prior training. But there are things that once you have that training you can do with shaping that simply can't be done with other methodologies.
The other thing I general recommend against is positve punishment. In behaviorist terms positive means something is added , negitive something taken away, So positive punishment would be say a shock for an ecollar where as a time out is negative punishment the withdrawl of attention. Also Punishment is simply anything that reduces a behavior and a reinforment somthing that increases a behavior. So if an action does not reduce a behavior it is not punishment by a behaviorst definition. That is what I try to stick to in my post rather than conventional definitions just to be clear.
The problem with punishment all punishment negative or positive is they only stop a behavior, they don't teach an apropriate behavior. This is important because most inappropriate behavior are tied to either a lack of self control, attention seeking or both. With only stoping a single inappropriate behavior there a litteral million of other inappropriate behavior for the dog to chose as well with only a limited number of appropriate behaivors so the odds are not in your favor of ending up with a wel lmanner dog simply by using punishment you are far better of training an appropriate behavior to the dog So for instant instead of training the dog not to jump , which still allows the dog to whine, bark, paw, nip, bark . run in circles etc. you teach the dog to stand or sit calmly.
The fallout of improper use of reinforcement is negligable the fallout from inappropriate use of punishment is huge. and then their are the unintended consequences as well. Unless these are fully explained and methods for overcoming them are presented I would avoid the use of punishment especially positive punishment
AVSAB Position Statement
The Use of Punishment for Behavior Modification in Animals
American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior
AVSAB’s position is that punishment1 (e.g. choke chains, pinch collars, and electronic
collars) should not be used as a first-line or early-use treatment for behavior problems. This is due to the potential adverse effects which include but are not limited to: inhibition of learning, increased fear-related and aggressive behaviors, and injury to animals and people interacting with animals.2
Punishment: How not to do it
Also many people fail to heed the behaviorist definition of punisment= reduction in a behavior and simply think an adversive = something that is avoided, is automatically a punisher, when in fact it is often a reward
Jack Palance vs. Fred Astaire
The process of teaching a behavior by getting a critter to avoid something is called aversive control. There are two types of aversive control, punishment and negative reinforcement. Punishment causes behavior to decrease, while negative reinforcement causes behavior to increase. The more technical scientific definitions of these terms are pretty confusing, but these simple descriptions are good enough for most situations.
...Things which increase behavior through force, intimidation, fear or avoidance are called negative reinforcers. If you sit on a thumbtack, the pain associated with the tack is a negative reinforcer, which causes you to do a behavior -- "jumping upward." The key difference between a reinforcer and a punisher is that one increases behavior, while the other one decreases behavior. In the case of our couch chewing canine, the swats and scolding did not affect the bad behavior at all. What actually happened was Fido's tendency to hide under the couch look "guilty" increased because of the harsh treatment. Those behaviors were negatively reinforced.
