[mydawgz]

My Daisy is 7 years old. She is peeing in the house... she has flooded every carpet. I have had to remove all of my carpet and throw rugs. I have to force her to go outside to pee although she loves to go in the back yard or lay by the pool. She doesnt poo in the house and she does not pee on the tile or on the wood floor..(unless I lay a rug on it) ... she only pees on the carpeting. I took her to the vet and they did blood tests because i thought it might be a urinary infection, but that came up negative. I am sure they checked her for other things, but now I am thinking it must be something else.

Here is what I notice about her. Appetite is good. She is huge.. 75 pounds. She drinks alot of water at one time. She is full of what the vet calls "fatty deposits or cysts." She has these bumps from head to toe and has a fairly large one that is in the fat which hangs down from her belly. no diarhea. Shes terrifed of thunderstorms and rain, so she wont go outside if we are having bad weather.

***Here is an example: today the temp is 70ish here in Tampa. I have the back door open so they could both go in and out to the patio or in the yard. I went upstairs to take a shower, my son was downstairs doing some laundry and she went into the living room and made a huge puddle in the middle of the living room rug. She had total access to the yard, but instead she went in the living room****

other than this... shes a sweetie. I am at the end of my rope with this situation. It has been at least a year now and she totally knows when shes been bad.

please help. any advice??

 

[vb3]

This might be a dumb question, but did the vet check to see if she was diabetic? Is she drinking a lot more water than usual, and is she more lethargic than usual (assuming 7-year old bassets are pretty lethargic to begin with)? I'm diabetic and I can tell you if she had high blood sugar she is going to be really tired and peeing a lot.

 

[murraysmom]

Another thought is Cushings- we had a dachshund with Cushings and the medication really helped, he lived to be 16. Here's a link to an article you might want to look at:

http://www.caninediabetes.org/pdorg/cushings.htm

Quote:

Clinical signs of Cushing's
Not all of these signs may be present, but as the disease progresses, they may become more pronounced or more signs may be seen. How common the sign is is shown for many of the items.

Increased appetite (polyphagia) - 80-95% will show this sign.
Increased drinking (polydypsia) and urination urination (polyuria) - due to interference with production of antidiuretic hormone. 80-90%.
Muscle weakness, lethargy, lack of activity - excess cortisol causes protein breakdown (catabolism) which leads to muscle weakness. 75-80%
Obesity, bloated abdomen, and "potbelly" - due to an increase of fat in the abdomen, increase in liver size (hepatomegaly), cronically full bladder, stretching of the abdominal wall, and the abdominal well becoming weaker. 90-95%
Panting - due to increased fat in the rib area (thorax), muscle weakness, and increased abdominal contents exerting pressure on the diaphragm. A "common" sign.
Poor hair coat, thinning hair (usually on the sides), hair does not regrow . "Common".
Skin infections - due to excess corticosteroids suppressing the immune system.
Thin skin, flaky or greasy skin & bruising - many processes that control skin structure and health are effected.
Fasting hyperglycemia (elevated blood glucose) - seen in 40-60% of dogs.
Insulin resistance - seen in up to 85% of dogs

 

[Mikey T]

It has been at least a year now and she totally knows when shes been bad.[/b]

Actual what human interpret as "guilt" on the part of the dog is actual an appesment behavior by the dog in reaction to the human and this has been verified scientifical

What Really Prompts The Dog's 'Guilty Look'

Whether the dogs' demeanor included elements of the "guilty look" had little to do with whether the dogs had actually eaten the forbidden treat or not. Dogs looked most “guilty” if they were admonished by their owners for eating the treat. In fact, dogs that had been obedient and had not eaten the treat, but were scolded by their (misinformed) owners, looked more “guilty” than those that had, in fact, eaten the treat. Thus the dog’s guilty look is a response to the owner’s behavior, and not necessarily indicative of any appreciation of its own misdeeds.

This study sheds new light on the natural human tendency to interpret animal behavior in human terms. Anthropomorphisms compare animal behavior to human behavior, and if there is some superficial similarity, then the animal behavior will be interpreted in the same terms as superficially similar human actions. This can include the attribution of higher-order emotions such as guilt or remorse to the animal.[/b]

I have had to remove all of my carpet and throw rugs. I have to force her to go outside to pee although she loves to go in the back yard or lay by the pool. She doesnt poo in the house and she does not pee on the tile or on the wood floor..(unless I lay a rug on it) ... she only pees on the carpeting[/b]

Dogs develop substrate prederence. that is a prefrence for what they are standing on when they go. Dogs that already have a preferrence for inappropriate seurface are expontential more difficult to potty train because now that substrate prefference must also be retrained.
see Housetraining Your Puppy The only difference between housetraing an adult dog vs a puppy is an adult dog takes longer because there are more strongly reinforced bad habits to over come.

The behavior behind this training: Dogs develop substrate preferences for eliminating. By substrate, I mean what they feel under their feet. In their first few weeks of life they need their mother to lick them to stimulate elimination. Around 4 weeks of age they begin to control this themselves. It is a self-rewarding behavior because it feels good. They associate this good feeling with the environment they are in at the time. This is about the same time they are walking well enough to go outside. If they are taken outside enough, several times a day, during this period of development (4 through 8 weeks) they will associate the good feeling of relieving themselves with the grass under their feet, the sky above, and all the smells and sounds of the outdoors. The tactile experience, the texture under the feet, becomes the cue.

If your puppy does not already have this outdoor experience, then you can provide it for him now, to retrain the "substrate preference" he has already learned.[/b]

I find the most important step to getting housetraining under control is a schedule. Not just of meal but water, sleeping, playing. When all these are scheduled the dog becomes very predictable when it need to go. which makes preventing accident possible. The firs an most criticle aspect of huse training is preventing accident. Also keep in mind dirnk large quanities of fluid for some dogs is done out of boredom as well.


Another medical posibility that has not been brought up. Are these accident on the carpet/rug occuring in areas she frequently sleeps? If so the cause is like Spay Incontinence that is generaly easily cured with Proin (PPA for Vet use only) or hormone replacement.



Barring a medical condition it is simply a matter of being diligent in house training and not assumeing she knows better or she is doing it out of spite etc. Until you take the necessary steps to prevent accidents in the first place they will continue to occur.

 

[mydawgz]

Another thought is Cushings- we had a dachshund with Cushings and the medication really helped, he lived to be 16. Here's a link to an article you might want to look at:

http://www.caninediabetes.org/pdorg/cushings.htm

Quote:

Clinical signs of Cushing's
Not all of these signs may be present, but as the disease progresses, they may become more pronounced or more signs may be seen. How common the sign is is shown for many of the items.

Increased appetite (polyphagia) - 80-95% will show this sign.
Increased drinking (polydypsia) and urination urination (polyuria) - due to interference with production of antidiuretic hormone. 80-90%.
Muscle weakness, lethargy, lack of activity - excess cortisol causes protein breakdown (catabolism) which leads to muscle weakness. 75-80%
Obesity, bloated abdomen, and "potbelly" - due to an increase of fat in the abdomen, increase in liver size (hepatomegaly), cronically full bladder, stretching of the abdominal wall, and the abdominal well becoming weaker. 90-95%
Panting - due to increased fat in the rib area (thorax), muscle weakness, and increased abdominal contents exerting pressure on the diaphragm. A "common" sign.
Poor hair coat, thinning hair (usually on the sides), hair does not regrow . "Common".
Skin infections - due to excess corticosteroids suppressing the immune system.
Thin skin, flaky or greasy skin & bruising - many processes that control skin structure and health are effected.
Fasting hyperglycemia (elevated blood glucose) - seen in 40-60% of dogs.
Insulin resistance - seen in up to 85% of dogs[/b]

Hi there Murray's Mom,
Thank you for this break down. She has 80% of these symtoms. We attributed her inability to jump up on the lounge chairs outside and the couch to her weight- which it could be weight but I think it must also be associated with the muscle weakenss. I can't walk her around the block without the excess panting and she stops numerous times along the way. She sits down and I stand there and wait while she rests for a minute. (there is no way, I could budge her to get up anyway... shes stubborn so if she wants to sit... she will sit.!!) She definetly has a pot belly. She is as round as a barrel. I am surprised the vet did not check her for this when I took her in with what I thought was a urine infection. By the way... how do I get a urine specimen from her??? Thanks again, Bev

 

[mydawgz]

Actual what human interpret as "guilt" on the part of the dog is actual an appesment behavior by the dog in reaction to the human and this has been verified scientifical

What Really Prompts The Dog's 'Guilty Look'
Dogs develop substrate prederence. that is a prefrence for what they are standing on when they go. Dogs that already have a preferrence for inappropriate seurface are expontential more difficult to potty train because now that substrate prefference must also be retrained.
see Housetraining Your Puppy The only difference between housetraing an adult dog vs a puppy is an adult dog takes longer because there are more strongly reinforced bad habits to over come.
I find the most important step to getting housetraining under control is a schedule. Not just of meal but water, sleeping, playing. When all these are scheduled the dog becomes very predictable when it need to go. which makes preventing accident possible. The firs an most criticle aspect of huse training is preventing accident. Also keep in mind dirnk large quanities of fluid for some dogs is done out of boredom as well.


Another medical posibility that has not been brought up. Are these accident on the carpet/rug occuring in areas she frequently sleeps? If so the cause is like Spay Incontinence that is generaly easily cured with Proin (PPA for Vet use only) or hormone replacement.
Barring a medical condition it is simply a matter of being diligent in house training and not assumeing she knows better or she is doing it out of spite etc. Until you take the necessary steps to prevent accidents in the first place they will continue to occur.[/b]

Thank you Mikey T for the details. Yes- her "reaction" is caused by my "action" when she has peed on the rugs. I no longer scold her, because I do feel that it is medical and not simply bad behavior. If she sees that I am reaching down to pick up a rug to wash because she has urinated on it, she will put her head down or hide because in the past, I have yelled at her for making a mess. I am going to have her checked this week for cushings disease. The list provided in one of the posts is very insightful into the symtoms and she has most of them. Thank you again for the insight into her behavior. - Bev

 

[mydawgz]

This might be a dumb question, but did the vet check to see if she was diabetic? Is she drinking a lot more water than usual, and is she more lethargic than usual (assuming 7-year old bassets are pretty lethargic to begin with)? I'm diabetic and I can tell you if she had high blood sugar she is going to be really tired and peeing a lot.[/b]

Hi VB3,
Thank you for the response and theres never any dumb questions! I do think they checked her for diabetes when they did her blood work, but i am taking her back this week to have her checked for Cushings Disease. Someone posted a link and a list and she def has 80% of the symtoms... I will let you know the outcome. Thanks again, Bev

 

[murraysmom]

Hi there Murray's Mom,
Thank you for this break down. She has 80% of these symtoms. We attributed her inability to jump up on the lounge chairs outside and the couch to her weight- which it could be weight but I think it must also be associated with the muscle weakenss. I can't walk her around the block without the excess panting and she stops numerous times along the way. She sits down and I stand there and wait while she rests for a minute. (there is no way, I could budge her to get up anyway... shes stubborn so if she wants to sit... she will sit.!!) She definetly has a pot belly. She is as round as a barrel. I am surprised the vet did not check her for this when I took her in with what I thought was a urine infection. By the way... how do I get a urine specimen from her??? Thanks again, Bev[/b]

If I remember correctly, the testing for Cushings is a little involved- I think Hansel had to fast the night before, and then they tested him a couple of times the day of the test. Below is a link to an article that discusses testing. After he was tested, it took awhile to adjust his medication (Lysodren), but after we got it right he did really well- he was like a new dog!

Edited to say: the test used for Hansel was the ACTH test. And just for general reference, getting a urine sample is not that hard: take the dog out for potty on a leash and follow with a shallow bowl. When the dog starts to urinate,standing behind the dog, quickly slide the bowl along the ground under the dog to catch the urine. If you don't get some on your hand you're better than me!

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1597&aid=416

Quote:
The three most common "screening" tests are the urine cortisol:creatinine ratio, the low dose dexamethasone suppression test, and ultrasound.

Urine Cortisol:Creatinine Ratio: In this test, the owner generally collects a urine sample at home (where the animal is not stressed). The sample is sent by the veterinarian to a special laboratory for testing. Most dogs with Cushing's disease have an abnormal result. However, there are other diseases that can also cause abnormal results. So if this test is abnormal, further diagnostic testing should be performed.

Low Dose Dexamethasone Suppression Test: The low dose dexamethasone suppression test is useful in diagnosing Cushing's disease in dogs. When given low doses of dexamethasone, normal dogs show a marked decrease in blood cortisol levels when tested 8 hours later. Most dogs (more than 90%) with Cushing's disease do not have a decrease in cortisol level after being given dexamethasone. The results can sometimes help determine which type of disease is present.

ACTH Stimulation Test: This is another test that is commonly used in the diagnosis of Cushing's disease today. It will not distinguish between the two types of hyperadrenocorticism, but it may aid in the diagnosis in difficult cases. It is also used to evaluate the effectiveness of therapy.

 

[basset owner uk]

I haet to say it but my older opne has startd doing it and reading all this off people it just appears normal. As much as we don't want it to be.

The lazy swines just CBA to got out and that is all it is.

Medically mines fine. The younger one who took a year to stop pissing on the floor now is totally reliable. he's now 3.

The 8 year old has turned into a complete piss artist.

If you find out how to stop the beast doing it please be the first to let me know,

 

[Soundtrack]

If you find out how to stop the beast doing it please be the first to let me know,

First, have him checked for a UTI or other medical issues as suggested.

Then, the only way to stop it is to not give him the opportunity. That means going back to housebreaking 101, taking him outside and rewarding him for peeing out there, and watching him like a hawk when he is inside (leashing him to you if necessary), or crating him when you can't watch him. If he pees in the house, take a rolled up newspaper and whack yourself with it for not watching closely enough. Once he seems clear on the concept, only give him limited freedom (like one room) and increase it very gradually. He has to earn his privileges all over again.

 

[Wworm]

Yeah, would definitely make sure all medical causes are ruled out first. including Cushing's, diabetes, incontinence (ie. due to structural causes from surgeries, having babies, etc), concerns me a little that you say she's got a big pot belly or something like that. important to make sure everything is checked out.

in the case that she is ok medically, then i absolutely agree w/everything Soundtrack said below. gotta follow them around like toddlers and we found that for Worm, catching him right when he started going on the carpet was key. he actually stops, so then we brought him outside to where we want him to pee instead. since he still has to go, he goes there. if he didn't stop peeing when we caught him, i would've carried around a small bucket or dish to catch the pee as he's doing it. we were extremely tired for 1 1/2 months following him around. and when we couldn't watch him, in the crate he went. but he only had half dozen accidents and then was housetrained in that amount of time.

 

[Mikey T]

When dealing with this issue with an older female one medical issue that is often overlooked is spay incontinence. If the pee spots are showing up in areas the dog normal sleeps or lays down this is a tail tail indication the dog has spay incontinence that is usually easily treatable with PPA sold under the brand name "Proin" While it generally effects older females I have two beagles develop it at under the age of three. It took way to long to figure out what was going on with the first. The second having dealt with it before it was pretty obvious what was going on.

 

[MaggieMaysMom]

Sorry for resurrecting an older thread but I have a pee problem going on with Maggie and I'd love some input. She's been with us now 10 weeks. She is @ 7 months old. She came to us "housebroken" which in reality meant she would whine near the door when she felt the urge and do her business outside most of the time. We had about a dozen accidents the first two weeks while we learned her cues and she got used to our family and schedule.

Things seemed to get much better until this week. She has been sleeping in our room in her bed and will occasionally wake us at some point during the night to go out. Well two nights ago she woke me right after she had already peed right next to where she sleeps! That next day she peed in the kitchen while hub had his back turned cooking, never a whine or any cue she had to go. Now tonight she peed in the kitchen again while I had my back turned, getting school lunches ready for tomorrow, just right at my feet with no warning.

She has had no change in her water intake or timing of it but she has been "off her feed" the last week or so meaning she doesn't finish her first bowl in the morning and sometimes doesn't come close to finishing it in the evening. The good part is she seems to self regulate, she eats more on the weekends when the kids are home and she is more active.

My hub is home right now with her all day. She constantly whines and so they go out to the yard at least once every 45 minutes. She "goes" about 50% of the time that she makes the trip.

She checks out fine and healthy so far, I'm just sooo frustrated that she would pee right next to me!!

 

[Boomer's Mom]

Have you had her checked for a UTI?

 

[Wworm]

Yeah, what Boomah says. See if it is medical issue first. if not, then ya might have to go back to Housetraining 101, where you watch her very closely and catch her in the act. and when you can't watch her (like during cooking or shower or stepping out), put her in the crate or confined area or outside, so she doesn't have a chance to make an accident without your knowledge.

when she becomes more reliable, you'll be able to give her more freedom and decrease the supervision...
--Worm

 

[Mikey T]

She came to us "housebroken

Most dogs are only housetrained for the house they live in new house you must start housetraining all over again allowing to much freedom leads to the problems you are now experience it is best to assume the dog has never been house trained whenever the dog is moved and only allow additional freedom when it is earned.

as i think the whining cue for you is on that you may find to easy to ignore not sure if it means Need to gho pee/outside or something else. Training a potty/go outside cue like bell ringing may help.