Basset Hounds Forum banner

1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
We picked up our first pureblood Basset last weekend and my wife and I had a few questions. He's a cute 10 week old male who's name is now Rufus. He's gotten over the night-time whining pretty much and scratches at the door when he needs to go out to do his business (so far). Anyway, he was being fed Purina Healthy Morsels, but we're going to be switching him over the Wellness Large Breed Puppy kibble over the next week or two. We've never had a dog that was predisposed to bloat and was curious about proper amounts to feed him. He weighs right at 14 lbs this morning and I've been feeding him about 2/3 cup of the Purina 3 times a day. He tends to not drink after he eats as well. Although he sure can hoover the kibble up quick! He's looking for more for a bit after he's done, but after reading some on bloat I'm a little nervous about giving him more. He doesn't whine or anything for more, just keeps searching in the bowl. We try to get him to lie down for a while after eating which is normally not a problem, as well as not get him too riled up before. The idea of bloat really has us worried.

I'm sure we'll have more questions as we go.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,947 Posts
We've never had a dog that was predisposed to bloat and was curious about proper amounts to feed him.[/b]
actually basset are not real high on the list of dogs that bloat but some certainly do. First check out the unversity of prudue's studies on bloat you will find out bloat is not a young dog problem. The chance of a dog bloating grows as it ages. The chance of puppy bloat is minute.

Non-dietary risk factors for gastric dilatation-volvulus in large and giant breed dogs
Results and Clinical Relevance-Cumulative incidence of GDV during the study was 6% for large breed and giant breed dogs. Factors significantly associated with an increased risk of GDV were increasing age, having a first-degree relative with a history of GDV, having a faster speed of eating, and having a raised feeding bowl. Approximately 20 and 52% of cases of GDV among the large breed and giant breed dogs, respectively, were attributed to having a raised feed bowl. (J Am Vet Med Assoc 2000;217:1492-1499)[/b]


As for how much to feed, there is and can never be a set guidline. feed the dog and adjust as you go. for young pups 3 or 4 times a day eventual getting down to two times when adults. The biggest risk with basset puppies and meals is overfeed which can lead to longer term health problems and is associated with orthopeadic conditions as well. Purina studies have shown it is better for the dog to be slightly lean than overweight. Given that the average owners perception for a basset is actual one that is overwieght man so called health problems associate with a basset structure are not because of the structure but rather a life time of obeisity.

Optimal feeding of large breed puppiesJennifer Larsen DVM, MS
Resident, Small Animal Clinical Nutrition
Veterinary Medical Teaching Hospital
School of Veterinary Medicine, University of California, Davis

Keep in mind overfeeding any food is one of the most common cause of many of these problems.

Dog Diet Do's and Don’t's

According to Dr. Tony Buffington, Professor of Clinical Nutrition, Ohio State University College of Veterinary Medicine, your puppy can be fed a regimen of specific caloric intake compared to his body condition score (BCS), using a simple one to five scale, from overly thin to obese. Using manufacturer feeding recommendations as an initial starting point, feed your puppy to a score of two and maintain this weight until he's fully grown. ...

2 = Thin - Ribs easily palpated and may be visible with no palpable fat. Tops of lumbar vertebrae visible. Pelvic bones less prominent. Obvious waist and abdominal tuck.[/b]
This is much thinner than was typical in the past but recent studies have show the great health benefits from maintaining a lean body condition

for a visual chart see Puppy Body Condition System

Note! you are supoose to be able to see the ribs on a puppy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,947 Posts
. He doesn't whine or anything for more, just keeps searching in the bowl.[/b]
unlike other breeds of dogs unless a basset get a tremendous amount of exercise it will always be overweight if free fed. IMHO part of the hunting instinct is from always being hungry. A hungry dog is more likely to hunt/search for food than a sated one.

We try to get him to lie down for a while after eating which is normally not a problem, as well as not get him too riled up before.[/b]
water consumpton and exercise just before or after meals had no correlation to bloat. Much of what was thought to be true of bloat and still being promoted even though actual scientific studies have shown them to be false. There is no need to be overly protective.


couple of examles of not overweight bassets





 

·
Registered
Joined
·
251 Posts
Rufus is very handsome :D I too worried about bloat. My female, Stickers, eats nice & slow. Rusty, my male, inhales his food. For that reason we feed 1 cup in the morning, 1 cup at lunch, 1 cup at dinner. With this amount he maintains his healthy weight at 53 pounds. Feeding smaller amounts more often is good. As far as the amount, I would see what his Vet says and how he looks. Searching for more feed is normal I think? I too limit activity with Rusty because of the bloat fear. Hopefully someone else will jump in and give their opinion.

I did buy on of those bowls with dividers made into it to slow Rusty down. It was plastic and irritated his mouth so now he eats out of a stoneware bowl. I don't think the divider bowl worked after he got use to it. Congratulations of your beautiful boy!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the info guys, I really appreciate it.

Mikey T, those dogs are what my pup looks like now after a week, so hopefully we're on the right track as far as feeding goes. We are going to try shifting his food over to the Wellness Large Breed Puppy. He's got some itching problems and we've not seen any fleas or anything and it seems to be a better mix than the stuff he's on now. We want to try eliminating corn in his food and see if that helps. Of course it may be our bermuda grass as that stuff will hold mold spores. I hate that stuff and it needs to go anyway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,947 Posts
We are going to try shifting his food over to the Wellness Large Breed Puppy. He's got some itching problems and we've not seen any fleas or anything and it seems to be a better mix than the stuff he's on now. We want to try eliminating corn in his food and see if that helps.[/b]

FWIW food allergies is a 10 week old puppy would be exceedingly rare. Also given the fact that food allergies only make up 10% of all dog allergies they are much less common, then the general public believes.

Corn the boogie man of the dog food industry. It is portray as the most evil substance you can feed to a dog by firms that market dog food rather than actual produce it. They are generally more interested in promoting their over priced feed than in actual nutrition. In many cases corn is replaced by a nutritional inferior replacement. The minimium requirement to produce kibble is 15-30 percent starch in order to hold its shape. For the most part starch is starch whether it is from corn, wheat soy, tapioca, or potatoes. That last two being themost coomon stearches in no grain dog food. Both tapioca and potatoes are less nutrious than corn.

Below is from a super premium pet manufactures web site. Keep in mind any and all info on the web is somewhat to excedingly biased given the posters agenda in this case Wysong bias is that raw is more nutrious than heated/processed cooked. even though the do produce some food that are heated.processed and cooked.
The Pet Food Ingredient Game
7.Steer away from brands that fear monger. For example, there is the no corn or wheat scam - "buy our brand, it has no corn or wheat." (Just saying a product has "no" something is enough to scare the non-thinking public to the brand that doesn't have the boogeyman ingredient. Profiteers know this and play it to the hilt in the pet food industry.)

The truth is, grains are put in dried nugget foods because they contain the starch necessary for the extrusion process. Starch is pretty much starch regardless of whether it comes from corn, wheat, rice, potatoes, millet or whatever. Grains also help decrease the cost of pet foods. They contribute some nutrition but in a properly formulated meat-based pet food the majority of the nutritional value comes from the meat. It is true that animals may develop allergy to corn or wheat but that can happen with rice or any other grain or ingredient as well. Problems are prevented by varying the diet. That is why Wysong has developed the range of formulations it has and puts them in small portion packs so the foods can be rotated. Of all the Wysong formulations, the ones with corn are chosen on almost a 5:1 ratio over all others and are the diets we receive the thousands of raves about, even in those pets supposedly allergic to corn! This is not to tout the merit of corn, or any grain in pet food for that matter. They are sort of a necessary evil in dried extruded foods and any of them can bring some benefit if rotated in the diet.[/b]

Corn cause allergies is a myth as well. A dog that is prone to food allergy will get one . The difference is they are most likely to get the allergy to the most proemenient protein source in their diet. Corn happens to be a major componenet of a lot of dogs food so it is a comon allergen. But if two dogs with the same propensity to develop and allergy one feed a corn based died would become allergic to corn one fed a so called hypoallergenic diet like duck and potato would become allergic to duck
see; Food Allergies and Food Intolerance
With the advent of lamb and rice diets many people feel that they are preventing or treating food allergies. The fact is that nothing could be farther from the truth ...

They can show up as early as five months and as late as 12 years of age, though the vast majority of cases occur between 2 and 6 years. Many animals with food allergies also have concurrent inhalant or contact allergies.
...While some proteins might be slightly more antigenic than others, many proteins are similar in form and the incidence of allergic reactions are probably associated with the amount of exposure. For example, pet foods have historically been made up of beef, chicken, corn, and wheat. In an effort to combat food allergies, several companies produced a diet made of lamb and rice. There was nothing special about lamb and rice diets except those two ingredients were normally not present in pet foods. Animals had not eaten lamb or rice before, and therefore, had not developed an allergy to it yet. If the main ingredients in pet food become lamb and rice, then it would stand to reason that the most common problem foods could become lamb and rice. The determinant of whether a food is likely to cause a food allergy or not is based on the structure and size of the glycoprotein in the food. In addition, many lamb and rice-based foods contain many other ingredients, and if the animal has a food allergy to any of them, this lamb and rice food will do nothing to treat the food allergy. In addition, while many people criticized and blamed preservatives and flavorings as a source of food allergies, studies have shown that they are not the causes, and while we may not have justifiable health concerns about preservatives, food allergies is not one of them.[/b]

Personnally I have never had a dog do well on wellness though I do know others that claim wonderful results. The point is no one food is right for every dog you do need to find what works best for your dog. Just because it work great for someone else dog does not mean it will work great for yours and vice versa. You need to take anticdotal evidence with a bucket load of salt not just a few grains. I would also recomen buy a small bag when changing food because more often than not the reults are not what you want and you end up with a lot of useless dog food if you by a large bag. That said given the nature of food allergies, a food allergery in a 10 week old would be quite startling. There are more likey suspects to be investigated including flea bite dermatitis even absent the observable presence of fleas because dogs can be hypersensitive to a single bite.
Flea Allergy Dermatitis or Flea Bite Hypersensitivity
Dogs that have flea allergies will bite at the base of their tail and scratch frequently. The bite of a single flea can cause hours and days of intense itching. Many dogs have a characteristic loss or thinning of hair above the base of the tail. In addition, fleas or flea dirt (feces) can be found on the dog the majority of the time. The feces, or flea dirt will dissolve into a red color when moistened; this is because it is primarily digested blood. However, if the dog is bathed or treated regularly, very little evidence of fleas may be found. Severely affected dogs may itch over their entire bodies[/b]
Allergies & Atopy in Dogs
Remember that dogs must be exposed to the allergen for some time before the allergy develops. Exceptions may occur such as an allergy to insect bites, which may develop after only a few exposures. The dog's body must learn to react to the allergen. It is a learned phenomenon of the immune system that is genetically programmed and passed from generation to generation in several breeds
...In pets, allergies usually start to develop between one and three years of age. They may start as late as age six or eight, but over 80% start earlier[/b]

what is the puppies coat like - oily perhaps with dandruff?

in Basset another potential cause of itchyness in a young pup is the under diagnosed condition of Seborrhea - Primary and Secondary
The idiopathic seborrhea which occurs in Westies, Cocker and Springer Spaniels, and Basset Hounds most often occurs in young animals and is generally thought to have a genetic component.

...The primary type usually occurs in very young puppies.[/b]

seborrhea
Early evidence of the disorder such as mild flaking and dullness of the coat may appear as young as 10 weeks of age

...Dogs with seborrhea are prone to secondary infections, either bacterial or yeast, and frequently develop skin lesions and associated itching. This condition is called seborrheic dermatitis. Scratching leads to worsening of the lesions and spread of the infection.[/b]

Allergy Testing & Immunotherapy in Dogs
Unfortunately, the RAST and ELISA tests have some inherent problems in their design. They were initially developed for humans and the circulating antibodies that they test for are different in dogs and cats than in people. The result is that there are a lot of false positives. In other words, the test results indicate that your animal is allergic to things that he is really not. For this reason, veterinary dermatologists may opt for intradermal skin testing.

Intradermal skin testing is the gold standard of allergy testing for atopy. The animal is sedated, and an area on his side is shaved down to the skin. On this shaved area a small amount of antigen is injected into the dog's skin. This is done in a specific pattern and order so that if the dog shows a small raised reaction, the offending antigen can be identified. After a period of time (hours), the shaved area is examined to detect which antigens, if any, created a reaction. Reading the reactions and determining if they are large enough to create an allergic reaction in the dog is somewhat of an art. This is where having a veterinary dermatologist really pays off.

Successful identification and treatment of atopic dogs by this method is listed to be as high as 75%. This test works best if performed during the season when the allergies are at their worst and is not necessarily more expensive than blood testing. Animals to be tested must not have been treated with steroids or antihistamines for several weeks to months before testing. The exact time differs with the drug used and type of test performed.[/b]
THE ITCHING PET: ALTERNATIVES TO STEROIDS
from a real vet not a holistic quack
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
FWIW food allergies is a 10 week old puppy would be exceedingly rare. Also given the fact that food allergies only make up 10% of all dog allergies they are much less common, then the general public believes.

what is the puppies coat like - oily perhaps with dandruff?[/b]
Interesting info Mikey T. Good to know. There are lots and lots of contradictory statements out on the web, as usual. Being in the science profession I also know that scientific studies more often than not seem to skew towards whatever the investigators were looking for. Seems like trial and error are the order of the day. We bought a small bag of the Wellness today and will introduce it over the next week to see. I don't mind spending more if he likes it and does well.

The puppies coat is shiny and smooth, not oily at all and no dandruff that I can see.

What pet foods would you personally recommend and which ones would you bypass trying and using?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
There are more likey suspects to be investigated including flea bite dermatitis even absent the observable presence of fleas because dogs can be hypersensitive to a single bite.
Flea Allergy Dermatitis or Flea Bite Hypersensitivity [/b]

Bingo. We've been checking him for several days for fleas but have never seen any. Did the walk around the yard in tall white socks business, nada. Picked up a flea comb yesterday and pulled four off of him last night and one this morning. He seems to be scratching less already. Poor thing. He goes in for his 2nd round of vaccinations and first check with our vet Tuesday, so well see about getting him on something (Frontline Plus?). We vacuumed several times already and washed his crate padding and bed cover. Although I didn't "see" any in the yard, I'm sure they are there as we have rabbits in the backyard every morning.

My wife said when she picked up the comb there were about 20 people in the aisle with the flea products.

Any suggestions on what to use on the yard thats safe?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,947 Posts
. He goes in for his 2nd round of vaccinations and first check with our vet Tuesday, so well see about getting him on something (Frontline Plus?). We vacuumed several times already and washed his crate padding and bed cover. Although I didn't "see" any in the yard, I'm sure they are there as we have rabbits in the backyard every morning.

Any suggestions on what to use on the yard thats safe?[/b]

Most of the topical can be use on pups as young as 8 wk.


There is no completely safe product especial if one does not follow the application instructions. Inside borax is an effective dessicant and can dry out the flea eggs. In most part of the county it is not a good product for outside because it is toxic to plants. so unless your bacj yard is a desert it is not a good choice there.

Which leave typical insecticides. While ther are claims that pyrethin because they are plant derived are safer but this is not really the case. It is never a bad idea to consult with a expert when applying insecticides or using a professional service.


What pet foods would you personally recommend and which ones would you bypass trying and using?[/b]
I don't think my experience has much relavence in your case as it is unlikely that the dogs are related etc. That is why however I general try to stick with the breeds food since they are more likely to know what works for thier dogs. I do like the idea/concept of large breed puppyt chow with slightly reduced calories and clacium levels. but keep in mind every manufacture is different on what constitutes lower calories and lower calcium. Secondly contrary to humans dogs are much better a metabilizing fat as an energy source so i look for higher fat lower carb foods. FWIW studies on dogs have shown the loose weight faster on a high fat diet iver a high carb diet of the same caloric content. High-Protein Low-Carbohydrate Diets Enhance Weight Loss in Dogs
For adults I feed a high protein high fat diet min 30% protein min 20% fat as such a diet is provent to increase performance, and reduce risk of injury in performance[i.e. sled and hunting dog] but this may not be an appropriate diet for all dogs. A inactive dog wold require very little food an would be likely hungry all the time. High protein although admitted a small study and far from conclusive has been linked to certain aggressive behaviors. Like I said their is no one ideal dog food.

FWIW i find the article below the most straight forward on bs article on the web about comercial dog food and dog food myths.
<a href="http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/dogfoods.html" target="_blank"> Dog Foods - Help in making the choice easier
</a>
Just because a food is listed in a magazine as their 10 best, doesn't mean its better than another food that isn't listed. They do no testing of the food, they base their opinions on the ingredients. My dogs have not done well on any of those foods. Think for yourself and don't get brainwashed into thinking you are a horrible pet owner if you don't buy these foods for your dog.

... I'm also not going to tell you what I feed my dogs. I haven gotten email from people mad at me for not saying what I feed my dogs. I don't want people buying a food just because I feed it. What you feed has to be your own choice. I'm just here to help you understand the choices so you can make a relatively informed decision.[/b]
I am also not a believer in find a food that works ansd sticking to it. If anything what little research that has been done in nutrition is how little we know., to think one food even is made from a variety ingreadients is truely completed and balances is a bit delusional. Pesonnally I feed a different brands and manufactures that meet my basic guidelines and seem to work for my dogs. If you have not dones so read the link I posted earlier on optimum feed of large breed puppies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
What a cutey!! :p We feed our 5 month old Charlie, Wysong Growth, ever since we just got him at 8 weeks of age, and we will keep feeding him the same until he is 1 year old, and then after we'll be feeding him Wysong Maintenance. It is very expensive too. It is also extremely rare to find Wysong in Pet stores thats why we have to order it from California. Alot of Vetinarians don't even know about it. The Breeder that we got Charlie from (hullabaloo bassets) have owned and bred bassets for almost 20 years, and she has tried ton's of different kinds of food, and then the best one on the end was Wysong. She has been feeding her bassets Wysong for about 15 years now and she is extremaly happy about it. Thats why she recommended us to use it. We are also very happy with it. Charlies coat is extramaly shiny and healthy looking and he is very happy!! We feed our last basset hound Freddy, Nutro, another good product recemended by lots of vets.

Too prevent bloat= If your basset pupp (like eny pupp) loves to eat alot and eats very fast then after he eats make him take a little nap or brake before play time.

And you should be feeding your new basset pupp 4 times a day, here is a scheduale

0-3 months - 4 times a day

3-6 months - 3 times a day

6-12 months - 2 times a day

Over 12 months - 1-2 times a day

Oh ya, and that is the same thing with our Charlie. He dose not drink after he eats, he tends to wait a while. Sometimes it can be bad if the dog drinks to fast, so that's why I sometimes give Charlie ice cubes instead. (he just loves them) :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,947 Posts
is very happy!! We feed our last basset hound Freddy, Nutro, another good product recemended by lots of vets.

Too prevent bloat= If your basset pupp (like eny pupp) loves to eat alot and eats very fast then after he eats make him take a little nap or brake before play time.

And you should be feeding your new basset pupp 4 times a day, here is a scheduale

0-3 months - 4 times a day

3-6 months - 3 times a day

6-12 months - 2 times a day

Over 12 months - 1-2 times a day

Oh ya, and that is the same thing with our Charlie. He dose not drink after he eats, he tends to wait a while. Sometimes it can be bad if the dog drinks to fast, so that's why I sometimes give Charlie ice cubes instead. (he just loves them) :p[/b]

Bloat Study
These measures, long been thought to reduce the risk of bloat, were found to have no effect:

Restricting exercise before or after eating
Restricting water intake before and/or after meals
Feeding two or more meals per day
Moistening dry kibble before feeding[/b]
It should be note how many time a day was fed was not a factor but the size in volume of the meal was. So two large meals is the same risk as one large one. but if by feeding more often one reduces the meal size then there should be some risk abatement.

Any schedule on how often to feed a dog is arbitrary. IMHO the best guide, because it helps with housetraining, is to match how often the dog defficates with the number of meals fed.
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top