Basset Hounds Forum banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi there...I am new here and I’m so sorry for my first post to be this lengthy, but I truly need some advice because I am worried about our new puppy. We just brought home our new basset puppy 3 days ago. Some backround on us... I researched this breed and reputable breeders for a year before deciding on this particular breeder and puppy. I used to show our standard LH Dachshund and after he passed last year, we decided it would be too painful to get another, but felt the basset hounds temperament was very much the same as our sweet boy, who was very laid back and easy going. I decided to find a basset show breeder to make sure we would be getting a puppy from a good blood line that has had all of the genetic testing done etc and I just wanted a really good quality puppy that I could be certain was healthy, even though I have no intentions of showing him. I went straight to the top basset lines and found a breeder that is very well known in the show world and has beautiful bassets. The sire of this litter is in the top 5 currently, both parents are grand champions. I was super excited to have an opportunity to even get one of his puppies! The breeder showed us our 2 choices. She sent us pictures of the puppies stacked on the table and I fell in love! She wasn’t great about sending us many pictures, but the side profiles were gorgeous and I didn’t think to even ask for a head shot. So we decided we would make the 12 hr drive to get this puppy. Made all the preparations, so very excited. I kept asking the breeder for more pictures. We drove half way and got a hotel and the breeder finally sent me a couple of more pictures of our two choices the night before we were to pick him up. These were head shots. That’s when I noticed something about the puppies left eye, but hoped he possibly had his head turned a certain way or was looking off. When we got there to see the puppies, I saw something again with his left eye and asked the breeder about it. She said, “oh that’s nothing, that’s just a third eye, all dogs have them. I may have gotten shampoo in his eye and irritated it.” So I now know, after researching that the third eye will sometimes appear when there is an eye irritation. I again told her my concern about his eye, ready to walk even though we had driven all that way and she reassured me it would go away and it would be fine. So we took the puppy and I have been so disappointed and disheartened bc every time I look at him I am dissatisfied and upset about his eye. I am taking him to the vet this afternoon for his first puppy check and I am so very hopeful that this is simply an eye irritation. I know that the third eye should not be visible and covering part of the dogs eye when they are awake. I saw this in our dog mainly when he was sleeping at times. This is not the haw, which I understand is acceptable by the breed standard, this is a thin grey/white membrane that rises up and covers the bottom portion of his eye at times. His eye does not appear irritated or oozing anything. The puppy is absolutely gorgeous and very sweet and my husband and son love him already. I however am so disheartened that I did the responsible thing to make sure we got a healthy puppy with a wonderful blood line, and when I look at him and this white membrane rolls up on his eye and gives the appearance that his eye is everted, it disturbs me and upsets me. I am ashamed to say I am having a hard time accepting this puppy bc of this. Had I seen it in pictures, I would never have proceeded with the venture. I had many opportunities to get other puppies, from reputable show breeders, but held out for this one, bc I loved the look of this breeders dogs and they have an especially sweet temperament. I am trying to be optimistic because their were other puppies in the litter that had the same thing, but in both eyes. One she is holding back as a potential show dog. I keep telling myself if shes not concerned about it and is keeping puppies with this, and told me it would resolve and be fine, that it will be okay, but every time I look at him I’m saddened and upset that there is possible defect in his eye that is very visible. I don’t want to have a puppy that may require treatments for recurrent eye infections, have a prolapsed nictating membrane, or this turn into a cherry eye and require surgery. We were planning on taking out pet insurance on this puppy and now at this first visit this will be deemed a pre-existing condition. I know that I need to just relax and see what the vet says, but Its just upsetting that what should have been a very exciting moment and memory has caused me this kind of worry and concern. I shared pictures with another show breeder that has been showing 30 years and she said she hasnt seen anything like it before, but said hopefully its just an eye irritation. I will try and attach pictures once I can figure out how to do that and if you all have any advice I would greatly appreciate it.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,034 Posts
Have you spoken with the breeder since you got him and mentioned that the lid is still visible?

You cannot attach a picture in the newbie forum, but you can in any of the others. I would be interested to see them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Well we just got him Friday and got home with him Saturday. The breeder was not at all concerned about it Friday when we got him and felt the third eyelid was showing because of an eye irritation, since that is the function of the third eye lid. I have not contacted her since Friday, because I honestly don’t want to offend her or make her think I question her opinion since she’s been breeding champion bassets for 20 years. I did reach out to another show basset breeder that I had contacted in my search for a puppy and sent her pictures and she said she has seen that before and feels his eye looks a little pink and irritated. She felt the vet should be able to treat it. I took him to the vet this afternoon for his first puppy visit and our vet said she wasn’t the least bit concerned about it. She saw it, but didn’t even feel it was an eye irritation, but felt the third eyelid on that eye was naturally a pink color and the one in his other (normal looking eye) was brown. She examined his eye and she said pupils, eye health was perfect. Glands are in the right place and would not lead to a cherry eye. She said she would not take him back, he was perfectly fine. She also felt it might improve as his skull develops. I was relieved, but this doesn’t change the fact that when he looks at you, you have this membrane ride up on the lower part of his eyeball, worse when looking downward and normal when you tilt his head back. For me, it bothers me to see it. I told her I would like to treat it regardless since it’s pink in case its an irritation, and she said she didn’t mind a bit to do that. We decided since she didn’t feel it necessarily needed treatment at all, to wait until the 15 day waiting period is over for the pet insurance and then treat the eye or else it will be considered a pre-existing condition and no future eye issue would be covered. Now, I have the breeder and the vet saying don’t worry, but it’s hard to not worry about whats right in front of you looking you in the eye! In the meantime, I am still praying that third eyelid will recede back into its proper place with time and that the treatment may help as well. It’s a bummer I can’t post pictures, since I know there are a lot of knowledgeable basset breeders, owners, and handlers on here. I think I have to post three times on this thread before I can post on the other forums.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
If he's heathy and happy be thankful.
Our one girl is blind and we wouldn't trade her for anything.


Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,834 Posts
from my own experience if the third eyelid is up it is ussually because of eye irritation. Talk to your vet about drops or antibiotic if appropriate. This is not anything related to cherry eye. In most cases that I have had this related to allergies and pollen. If the pup is younger than 6 months it is general too young for allergies to be showing up but not impossible. There is a strong genetic component to allergy sensitivity and will be an ongoing issue but generally are very treatable and only has a minor effect on quality of life.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,834 Posts
" I honestly don’t want to offend her or make her think I question her opinion since she’s been breeding champion bassets for 20 years"


1. can't be a decent breeder if you don't have thick skin

2. If the breeder intimidates you i.e scared to talk to them etc. they are not the right breeder for you

3. Breeder wants and need feed back from the owners of their prodigy to evaluate their breeding as far as health especial in basset hounds because genetic test are basically non-existent.

4. Frankly I'm . a bit surprised the breed has not contacted you. as a follow up.

5. "it’s a bummer I can’t post pictures, since I know there are a lot of knowledgeable basset breeders, owners, and handlers on here" you can post picture just not on the Newbie ie "introduce yourself here" forum. n FWIW the 3 post before you can post else where restriction has been removed years ago so feel free to post pictures on say the health forum or post to the photo gallery and link to them
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,834 Posts
6. "I know there are a lot of knowledgeable basset breeders, owners, and handlers on here"
that was the case 10-15 year ago now as far as breeders go it My wife AKA Soundtrack and Franksmom who is retired. Funny thing the both know each other from when they both lived in Canada but neither one does anymore
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,834 Posts
some similar question to yours on this forum you will have to cut and paste because all ubb code is disabled on newbie forum so no link no pictures etc

https://www.basset.net/boards/general-basset-hound-discussion/15107-eye-question.html

https://www.basset.net/boards/general-basset-hound-discussion/12809-bassets-third-eyelid.html

https://www.basset.net/boards/general-basset-hound-discussion/14891-new-bassett-owner-2.html

https://www.basset.net/boards/general-basset-hound-discussion/35250-weeping-eyelid.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,480 Posts
Hi again. My experience with eye-problems is limited, other than losing 2 who copped a face full of crop spray from the field back of us, being spread in a high wind and one went blind in 24 hours, the other lost sight in one eye. When the third eyelid comes across, I'd have thought it's to do with irritation or some infection, or a dog can look off if it's been drugged.

An old hound we bred, our last, suffered with an ulcerated cornea in old age, which had my then vet stitching the third eyelid across the eye to form a natural bandage to allow the ulcer to heal - well that was the idea until he managed to rip the stitches out too soon (although he had a 90% healing by then).

Frankie came to us with slightly puffy inside edges to his eyes (I'll see if I can pull up one of the photos). I'd be liasing with this breeder who from where I sit, should be concerned about what's going on - and maybe not have let this puppy go to a new home?! The breeder may be experienced, but that doesn't necessarily mean she's 'good' or whether just making excuses for what's going on with this puppy. So your vet gave him the all clear - not much more to be done other than hope this looks better as he matures?

ps I had Frankie looked at by an Eye Specialist who does the BVA/KC Eye testing here in the UK. After spending about 40 mins with him, most of which was taken up completing Frankie history which he should have had via our referring vet, I came away with a small bottle of Metacam and some drops, and none the wiser. Oh and a huge bill for the pleasure. I didn't bother going back!!
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Thank you all so much for your time in writing back. It is nice to meet you! I have been getting some good advice from the posts here prior to bringing this boy home. I am not sure how to re-copy your responses and put in my new reply, but I will try and copy and paste and reply. I am not computer savvy at all! It may take me a while to learn how to use this site.

Mikey:
"from my own experience if the third eyelid is up it is usually because of eye irritation."

This is exactly what the breeder said and I guess this is why she wasn't concerned.

"Talk to your vet about drops or antibiotic if appropriate."

I told her it would make "me" feel better to treat it and she said she would be happy to do that. Since it's not an emergency and she didn't feel it even had to be treated, we decided to wait to treat it until the 15 day waiting period is over for the insurance so this will not be considered a pre-exisiting condition. If it does require future treatment at least then it would be covered. He has to go back in 3 weeks anyway for his next set of puppy shots, so we will do it then, but because it continues to worry me, I might take him back right after the waiting period to start treatment sooner. One of the basset breeders I spoke with about his eye, said I could try washing his eye with saline solution. She said she regularly does this with all of her dogs since they are prone to eye irritations and allergies. I was not sure how to properly do that and he didn't like it all. Today I just saturated a cotton ball with the solution and tried to drip a tiny bit into his eye and gently wipe under his eye. I don't think I managed to get any in, but thought I would try.
In regards to the breeder. She has been a huge disappointment. Our LH Dachshund breeder was absolutely wonderful, sweet and kind. She traveled 8 hrs to go with me to my first show and then also came to another show in another state to help me. She taught me how to show groom my dog, gave me puppy training advice, such a great communicator. We had a great relationship which is how it should be. I sent her Christmas cards every year with our dogs picture up until we lost him last year, which devastated us. This basset breeder does not like to talk. It was like pulling teeth to get pictures. I always felt like I was bothering her and at times she never responded to my texts. She has not even bothered to contact us to see how the puppy is doing which I feel is really crummy, but no surprise given her history with communication. The two other basset breeders I had been speaking with were kind and sweet, but the timing or breedings never worked out for us to get a puppy from either of them. They are the two I have been speaking with and they are so kind to listen and give me advice even though I didn't get a puppy from them.
Thank you so much for the links, I will look through them. I did a little more research last night, as I am still learning about this breed that is new to us and I think I was mistaken, but let me know...I didn't realize that the nictating membrane, third eye lid and the haw were all the same thing. Is that correct, that those terms are interchangeable?
Neat that your wife and Franksmum knew each other...I have noticed that you three seem to be very knowledgeable about the breed as I have been browsing through threads. I'm glad to have you as a resource, this is why I joined!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Franksmum:

First I want to say that I love the boy in your profile pic, gorgeous!

"The breeder may be experienced, but that doesn't necessarily mean she's 'good' or whether just making excuses for what's going on with this puppy. So your vet gave him the all clear - not much more to be done other than hope this looks better as he matures?"

Yes, I agree. I think I am going to reach out to her about his eye again and ask her how long she feels this will take to resolve. I also would like to know how long his eye has looked like this, bc she acted as if it was new to her and she hadn't seen it and when I pointed it out said the third eye comes up as a response to an eye irritation and she may have gotten some soap in his eye. Because she never sent me a head shot until the night before we were to pick him up, I have no idea if it has been like this since birth or if it truly just came about all of the sudden.
Again, I am very displeased that I am even having to go through this worry and concern, when had she sent me a head shot and I had seen this, I would have never even went to get the puppy and looked elsewhere. I would be willing to take him back, but my husband and son are in love with him already and do not wish to do this.
I will get on the health thread and see if I can post some pictures of his eye there for you all to look at.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,480 Posts
https://pethelpful.com/dogs/Causes-of-Dog-Third-Eyelid-Showing

This article may help?

And I always 'thought' the haw was what's seen when the lower eyelid 'droops' LOL

"The Basset has a large, well proportioned head, sad, droopy eyes with a prominent haw;"

Thank you re my profile..... as in avatar - that's my Canadian-born English Ch. Verulam Morgen le Fay. It was quite a thrill to get that title back here and she's still the only Canadian-bred Basset bitch to have done this. Now very sadly no longer with us. She was one of 3 litter-mates (and others!) we brought back with us from Canada, and her sister Blasine did well in the ring too although always over-shadowed by Morgan. Sadly the brother, Gawaine, had a slightly undershot bite by the time he came out of quarantine (this was before Pet Passport) so couldn't be shown although I did allow one person to use him at stud which she did, twice as she was so pleased with the result.

The one whose photo I've added, re eyes, is our Frankie, a buy-in from the Balmacara kennels here (and he has a line back to Gawaine). He was bought to show, at 4 months, but it didn't work out like that ..... he has a lot of problems from those eyes to his hips and beyond. His breeder doesn't communicate with me either!! I've known her for years. In that photo, he 'hoinked' his ears - they are not normally that high-set.............!

I'd be interested to know the breeding of your puppy - you can PM me rather than post it here!!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,034 Posts
FWIW, my SallyAnne had third eyelids that were two different colours, which often gave the impression that something was wrong with them. There was never any issue with her eyes, it was just pigment
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,480 Posts
FWIW, my SallyAnne had third eyelids that were two different colours, which often gave the impression that something was wrong with them. There was never any issue with her eyes, it was just pigment
We had this in our line too - used to call it the Verulam eye. LOL. I had a couple of studio portraits done on the final two of our home-breds, Elsa and Endman. Elsa had a coloured rim in her left eye and in her photo, it looks as if she only has one eye!! She had very dark eye colour but no pink haw showing.

I wonder whether there is any hereditary involvement because Halinka and Morgan were the same. There may have been others - I forget, it was sooo long ago now. It didn't seem to be there in the boys.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,834 Posts
didn't realize that the nictating membrane, third eye lid and the haw were all the same thing. Is that correct, that those terms are interchangeable? yes correct interchangeable.

Franksmum and soundtrack have been breed and involved in the breed 30+ years each me I am the new comer been doing performance and field work starting in the late 80's
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Sorry it has taken me a while to respond, but my goodness, I have forgotten how challenging and time consuming housebreaking a puppy was! It has been 14 years since I have done this!

Thank you for your responses. Its so nice to hear about your backgrounds and about the lines of some of your dogs. I am currently trying to upload some pictures of this boys eyes for you to the health thread, but it seems really slow to upload them. We will see!

@Soundtrack and Franksmum...
Interesting to hear about the possibility of this being an eye color issue. This is exactly what the vet seemed to think as well.
I did contact the breeder again and I asked her if his eye had been like this since birth. She never answered that question, but again said she felt it would resolve or she said it could be a difference in eye color, talked about how being different is what makes us unique... then finally said she didn't know if his eye would ever look like the other one. My husband was not pleased, stating she should have told us that when we were there to pick up the puppy instead of reassuring us it would resolve. She went on to say, if I wasn't in love, she would take him back, she had two other people really hoping he would be available.

Bottom line is, the puppy is beautiful and healthy. He has an amazing pedigree which is what I wanted. Did I get what I was expecting from the pictures? From the stacked side profile pictures yes, dream come true, but I didn't expect the eye issue at all, at this level of show breeding. I was just really taken aback when we drove 12 hrs and discovered this. I chose her specifically out of many other top lines, because I loved the look of her dogs the most. Am I disappointed? Yes. I'm not sure if she didn't send me head shot pictures intentionally and this I will never know and would never want to assume something that may not be true of someone. Only way I know to describe it is that I felt mislead.

I plan on still getting it treated at his next vet appointment, just in case it truly is an eye irritation. On a positive note, he is an extremely sweet dog with such a nice temperament which is what I was after. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,480 Posts
@Soundtrack and Franksmum...
Interesting to hear about the possibility of this being an eye color issue. This is exactly what the vet seemed to think as well.

I plan on still getting it treated at his next vet appointment, just in case it truly is an eye irritation. On a positive note, he is an extremely sweet dog with such a nice temperament which is what I was after. :)

Not 'eye colour' but 'eye rim colour'. Surely

If there's nothing wrong with the eyes, what will you be treating ..... as said, from what I could see of the photos you added, there's nothing wrong with those eyes. Just the rim colour??

ps If you feel like letting me know the name of the breeder - via PM - I might be able to confirm whether or not he/she is 'reputable'.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,034 Posts
As I breeder, I would not have been concerned about it either and wouldn't have thought to mention it as it isn't important, even for a show dog. As mentioned before, my own SallyAnne was the same, as far as I can tell it had zero effect on her show career as she finished her championship easily.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Okay, I feel much better after hearing your all's input with all of the experience you have with this breed and me being totally new to the breed. Thank you!

@Soundtrack...I really happy to hear that this is not considered a fault as far as showing. I know I am not showing this puppy, but somehow this makes me feel better. Thank you for sharing your opinion.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top