Basset Hounds Forum banner
1 - 11 of 11 Posts

· Registered
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello. My little girl, Roxy, loves to jump on anyone and everyone when they come to the house. I have tried pushing her down, turning and ignoring her, holding her when someone comes to the house until she calms down. Any suggestions before she levels someone.

· Registered
31 Posts
Hello. My little girl, Roxy, loves to jump on anyone and everyone when they come to the house. I have tried pushing her down, turning and ignoring her, holding her when someone comes to the house until she calms down. Any suggestions before she levels someone.[/b]

I've had a few dogs in my life who came to me as chronic jumpers. My Border Collie, Bear was new to our family a little over a year ago. He dove on everyone! We also tried pushing him away and holding him back. My daycare clients were totally freaking out over this bad habit. Who wants to go into daycare to drop off their kids and have their fresh, clean pantsuits soiled with big paw prints and their nylons full of runs as they head off to work?

The solution a friend suggested, which was the solution that worked was this: When Bear would head in for the jump, every single time we'd quickly raise a knee sharply upward while firmly, gruffly saying, "No jump!" Bear would of course crash into the knee. I had all my clients in on this. It wasn't long before he completely gave up jumping on anyone. My new Basset, Loretta was jumping on everyone during her first week in my home (just a few weeks ago). This method also broke her of it quickly.

· Registered
9,909 Posts
All three of mine jump up on people, but after a quick knee bump, they leave you alone.[/b]

the very fact that one must be delivered each and every time shows how ineffective a technique it was. If it was effective it would require only a few and the dog would stop performing the behavior, by definition this is what punishment is . If the dog does not stop the behavior obvious it doesn't if you have to repeatedly "dish out " the punishment then it is ineffective and rather than punishment it is abuse.

see; Punishment: How not to do it.
good working definition of the term would be "presenting something that reduces the chance that a behavior will happen." For example, sharks can punish swimmers just by showing their dorsal fins, and hot rooms punish those who wear heavy clothing. Once the shark is removed, or the temperature drops, swimming and wearing heavy clothes will return to their normal rate of occurrence.

Punishment, therefore, decreases the likelihood that something will happen. It is not so much a description of how you imagine the behavior will change, but an assessment of how it actually changed. To say, "I punished the dog for soiling the carpet" is inaccurate if the behavior has not decreased in its rate of occurrence. This practice of inflicting discomfort after the fact is more accurately described as retaliation , retribution or just plain nastiness. i.e. you may have inflicted pain or terror but the animal did not connect it to the behavior! So, by definition, when used correctly, punishment always decreases response. The problem is that punishment is rarely the best solution to a problem, and is almost never practiced correctly.[/b]

First one must understand why the dog jumps up in the first place. Then comprhensively understand how to change the behavior. The problem with most quick fix solutions is inorder to prensent the idea simply a lot of short hand occurs and half the steps left out that is required for the dog to fully understand what it is you are trying to teach it. One needs a more whollistic approach in which you understand not just what it is you don't want but percisely what you want the dog to do and the step you need to use to train the dog to do it.

Why dogs jump up while greating humans
1. over and over again it is reward for doing so. Jumping up is an attention seeking behavior by doing so he gets attention.

2. the behavior is often thought to strat as a social interaction. dogs great face to face. Since the dog is lower it must raise itself up to do so with humans.

3. a basic lack of self control.

to solve the problem on must break the cycle. While the turning your back technique will work it often needs a lot of supporting help. dogs that lack self control are much harder to live with in general. The one good thing about self control is it is one of the few areas that dog tend to generalize,Apply learned behavior to new , novel situations.

1. down play exits and greeting keep them low key ignore the dog on arrivial until it calm. This does not mean simply keep turning your back to the dog but to go about your business as if the dog did not exist. admitedly much hard to do than say.,

2. teach calming and self control exercise. Like require a down stay when meals are prepared. having the dog wait at doorway etc until you tell him it is ok to pass through, etc see links at end of the post.

3. don't forget to reward the dog for the behavior you do want. far to often people thing absent ofpunmishment is ample a reward for good behavior. Once it is solidly trained perhaps but not when you are trying to instill it.,

4. don't be afraid to interact with the dog at his level. When he is calm get down on the floor with him.

5 Make sure all family members and freinds practics they same techniques. Dog will qickly learn if allowed who they can can cannot jump on

6. In cases where you have quest that are will not willing to follow your training program or the situation is not appropriate for it manage the dog to prevent the behavior. crating or issolating the dog from the situation where it could jump up.

7. rather than focus on what you don't want the dog to do like jump up focus on what you whant him to do sit calmly. THe reason for this is simple. It is not simply of not jumping up. If jumping up fails to get your attention the dog is more likely than not find and even more obnoxious behavior that you can no longer ignore. like scratching the back of your leg or whine until you are rady to pull your hear out. Focus on what you do want is easier on both you and the dog. It give you a clear idea what to reward and what not to which creates faster and morth thorough understanding by the dog see
Stopping Negative Behavior Positively

helpfull links

Quick Fix for a Jumping Dog

Any Dog Can Live Calmly in a House - Even Yours!

Lowering Arousal: How to Train Impulse Control

Settle Down and Shush

Rewarding Non-Behavior

Teaching Self Control

the follow link may require a no fee subscription to view.,

Guidelines for Teaching Self Control

· Registered
31 Posts
This is sounds like an effective method, but the knee in the chest method also proved to work exceptionally well for my dogs. It 100% broke them of the habit very quickly and it took very little time and effort on anyone's part.

· Registered
9,909 Posts
This is sounds like an effective method, but the knee in the chest method also proved to work exceptionally well for my dogs.[/b]
and the best part of the knee in the dogs chest is it such a solid foundation for building a relationship with the dog. Teaching the the to be carefull on how they approach humans because otherwise they might hurt them is bond alway a fine start. The problem with any punishment based solution is it is to dependant on how the dog pervives the event.

1. If the dog see the event a practive act by the human it can come to fear them.

2. If the dog percieves the action as the humans reaction to their behaivor than they are likely to change it.

to avoid the possible problems it is best when using punishment that it never be precieved as coming from a human and second only tied to the dog behavior. This method meets no of those criteria. This does not mean it can't be successful but the risk of unintend consequences is high. When anyone advocates using punishment as a method of correcting behavior problems I alway suggest they read

Guidelines on the Use of Punishment for Dealing with Behavior Problems in Animals by American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior[/url]
The standard of care for veterinarians specializing in behavior is that punishment is not to be used as a first-line or early-use treatment for behavior problems. Consequently, the AVSAB urges that veterinarians in general practice follow suit. Additionally punishment should only be used when animal owners are made aware of the possible adverse effects. The AVSAB recommends that owners working with trainers who use punishment as a form of behavior modification
in animals choose only those trainers who, without prompting:

1) Can and do articulate the most serious adverse effects associated with punishment
2) Are capable of judging when these adverse effects are occurring over the short and/or long term
3) Can explain how they would attempt to reverse any adverse effects if or when they occur.[/b]
Having aquired a dog from rescue that truely dangerious because it had its normal intial fear responce surpressed, growing, via punishment. That is it bit firsr and asked questions later. It to over a year to get the dog to reliably grow again in the face of what it percieved as a threat. I know first hand the dangers of unintended consequence of physical punishment and believe that truely should be reserved as a last resort and only for problem of significant value as protecting the life of the dog or owner.

other reading
On punishment

Punishment: Problems & Principles for Effective Use



The Negative Spiral of Punishment for Dogs
Observable Effects of Punishment
We can't assume (because we all know what happens when we assume) that we know how an animal is feeling or what he's thinking, but we can observe and measure behaviors. Be careful when observing, though—some of these behaviors, especially avoidance, look to us imperfect humans as “guilt.â€� They are not. Punish your dog and these six behaviors will happen in this order, and they can be reliably observed and measured:

•Anxiety Measurable by body chemistry
•Fear Observable behavior
•Escape Observable behavior
•Avoidance Observable behavior
•Aggression Observable behavior
•Learned helplessness Observable behavior
Many people will then punish their dog for displaying these behaviors, which only escalates the dog's response.[/b]
Learned Helplessness

The Side Effects of Positive Punishment
Use of negative punishment procedures to extinguish undesirable behaviors paired with positive reinforcement to reward desired alternative could accomplish this. Negative punishment is when something the dog finds desirable or rewarding is removed, interrupting and decreasing the behavior. Positive reinforcement provides something the dog wants and increases or strengthens behaviors. Example: Dog jumps up when a visitor enters your home. The visitor turns and walks away, not giving any ATTENTION to the dog. When the dog has "four on the floor" the visitor greets the dog.

If necessary, the owner can use a leash or a tether to control the dog, in a situation such as greeting behavior. If you were to use POSITIVE PUNISHMENT in this situation by pushing the dog down, kneeing the dog, squeezing the paws, or stepping on toes, the dog could see the attention as a game. He is being rewarded with attention and game playing. The physical correction would have to be intense enough to cause real physical pain. And since in a state of arousal the dog will be more tolerant to pain, it could be necessary to be harsh.

The advantage of using the negative punishment/positive reinforcement procedures is that it gets the owner focusing on rewards. What reward does the dog gain from the behavior? How can I gain control of that reward to train the dog? The goal of any training endeavor should be to teach the dog how to be good, rather than to teach him how not to be bad.

There is a side effect to the use of negative punishment procedures called "extinction burst." If the dog has been consistently rewarded for jumping up or engaging in another undesired behavior, he will continue to try. The behavior might temporarily become more intense and insistent as the dog works it out. It is extremely important that the owner be consistent in withholding rewards during the burst and rewarding the desired behavior as soon as it occurs.[/b]

· Registered
9,909 Posts
Hello. My little girl, Roxy, loves to jump on anyone and everyone when they come to the house. I have tried pushing her down, turning and ignoring her, holding her when someone comes to the house until she calms down. .[/b]

What many don't relize is a phenoneom known as an extiction burst, when using negitive punishment such as turning and ignoring a behavior. What happes is the behavior one want to control often gets worse much worse. So people thing the process is not working an quit while just the opposite is true.

The best explaination for extinction burst is the elevator button. We all have learned push the button the doors close and we stop at our intended floor. Whe have thousand of reinforcement for this behavior. So what happen when the next time you get in the elevator push the button for your floort and nothing happens, Do you just give up and say that doesn't work and take the stairs for now on. Well it is the same with a dog. No you push the butten again repeatedly harder, faster etc until finally you give up. That is an extinction burst. Than that is what happen when you simply try to stop a behavior by ignoring it. Intially the behavior get worse much worse before it stops. The problem is usually us human simple can not ignore the behavior through the burst. It is again another reason it is important to couple rewarding the desired behavior as well give the dog an alternative behavior that obtains the desire result lesson the extinction burst. Just as would happen if we tried the button on the panel at the rear door worked. Overtime we would just switch to using that button and ignoring the button at the front door.

· Registered
31 Posts
I've only been on this forum a short while, but I have learned there is one person here who feels they are the only individual on this forum who knows anything what so ever about dogs and has any business posting anything except cute Basset photos. I have gone over posts and have seen that this person has taken a great deal of time to reprimand and correct a vast number of other posters over a long period of time. It seems that an important part of this persons day is to go over each new post and if possible, find fault in it and write an extremely lengthily column reprimanding the poster and all persons who are brave enough to respond to the posts with their own advise. After reading over dozens of posts, it's apparent that the only way to avoid these lengthily lectures is to only post things such as cute photos and to avoid responding to any poster who comes to this forum with a problem they wish to receive help with. If I thought this person was always right, and the others were always wrong, I would see this as a good thing. However too many of this persons posts are only that persons personal opinion and for that person to insist their answers are the only correct ones is sadly narrow minded. Personally I have little tolerance for individuals who set themselves up as unofficial forum policemen. When I get on a forum and discover there is a self appointed forum policeman, I leave!

PS, Mikey T, I wouldn't recommend wasting half your day with a lengthily, scathing response because I won't be logging on again.

· Super Moderator
4,085 Posts
So you're going to completely leave the forum because someone disagrees with you?

Seems a little extreme to me......

· Registered
9,909 Posts
So you're going to completely leave the forum because someone disagrees with you?[/b]

Hmm never disagreed. Never said her method didn't work. Just point out risks associated with the methodology. For anyone to make an informed choice about chosing a training methodology they need to cosider a few things, nothing is 100% successfull for all dogs or all people. To get to what will work for you one must carefully condsider.

1. Knowing your limitations and ability, what is the likelihood the method will work for you
2. Knowing your dog what is the likelihood the method will work for him.
3. what are the risk inheirent in the method even if done properly
4. what are the risk inheirent in the method if done improperly.

no one without intimate knowedge of you or your dogs will be able to make a rational descision about either 1 or 2 the best any on can do is explain a methodolgy, its strength and weakness., skills required to be sucessfull, and the risks involved.

IMHO when providing training advise not providing enough information for someone to make an inormed decision based on the 4 question above is irresponsable. That said often time it is not possible to provide all the info require in a compact form that this medium requires hence the need to provide outside links to articles that do just that. In cases where someone else does not supply enough info to answer the above 4 question If I am able, I will provide that as well. Which specifical in this case goes to risks associated with the methodology.

I provide information nothing more, nothing less. I do however find it sad when other feels the need to imply something else because that means I didn't communicate as well as I should have.
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.