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So... the sire to Georgette's litter is "inbred," I am guessing because he and his mother share the same father. Or would this be considered line breeding?

That's the only repeat within 4 generations.

How would you address this if any buyers are concerned? There is a lot of crap out there about unethical inbreeding when it comes to purebred dogs. The sire's breeder said they bred the parents like that because they have extremely shiny coats and they want to preserve that trait, as it is one thing their bassets are specifically known for.

Sire's inbreeding co-efficients are as follows:
Wright's 25.20%, Hardiman's 19.04%

I'm still learning what inbreeding/ line breeding/ cross breeding mean. I have seen some other posts for a better understanding.
 

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LET’S TALK LINEBREEDING

Inbreeding/line breeding itself is neither good nor bad, but it will cement traits into the bloodline whether good or bad. This is why it's best left to an experienced, knowledgeable breeder using quality stock.

Your litter is an outcross. The sire being inbred means he is more likely to throw his traits.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Cementing traits... that's what I thought. Thanks.
 

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COI of the progeny is what is important. there are those in the know that will claim COI is a good measure of the likelihood of unknown adverse recessive genes popping up. Also the Immune system functions much better when it is highly heterogeneous ie low COI. 25.xx and 19 are high COI's


see COI BootCamp (Free!) - The Institute of Canine Biology

The Pox of Popular Sires - The Institute of Canine Biology

A Beginner’s Guide to COI | Dog Breed Health

The average COI last year for basset hounds in the UK was 7.5%



The sire's breeder said they bred the parents like that because they have extremely shiny coats and they want to preserve that trait,
AKC breed standard Coat: The coat is hard, smooth, and short, with sufficient density to be of use in all weather. The
skin is loose and elastic. A distinctly long coat is a disqualification.


note nothing about gloss or shine, While a shiny coat can be "showy" it is not important trait. Even that said much like hips and elbow genetic play a small part nutrition and maintenance/care play a much bigger role. I would be much happier if it were done to say try and preserve a proper front assembly.
 

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AKC breed standard Coat: The coat is hard, smooth, and short, with sufficient density to be of use in all weather. The
skin is loose and elastic. A distinctly long coat is a disqualification.


note nothing about gloss or shine, While a shiny coat can be "showy" it is not important trait. Even that said much like hips and elbow genetic play a small part nutrition and maintenance/care play a much bigger role. I would be much happier if it were done to say try and preserve a proper front assembly.
Basically, a shiny coat is a reflection of good health, proper diet, and good grooming. Little to do with breeding other than the health factor. Dark tricolors and mahoganies will naturally appear shinier than, say, faded tris and reds.
 

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Inbreeding, mother to son, daughter to father, and brother to sister is the closest form of linebreeding. Half brother to half sister would, assuming the common sire or dam isn't closely bred, be fine - the UK KC will accept such matings (where they don't with any that is inbred as above) but advise the breeder talks to knowledgeable fellow-breeders, in the breed, before going ahead with a half brother/half sister mating. Most breeders tend to line breed because it fixes type. But they also know, or should!, when to go for an outcross mating. not that within some breeds, you can go out in the truest sense.

And then there's breeding with enough knowledge of the faults that lie behind the dogs intended to be used. And breeding for type as I had to when coming to Canada with our English-bred hounds much as I was able to pick up a line that interestingly enough, went back to a hound in my foundation bitch's background. Perhaps I saw a familiar type in the dog I did pick because I didn't know about what lay back of him (a bitch from the well-known UK Fredwell kennels who was sent in whelp, to America)

ps TOTALLY agree re the comments about construction (especially fronts!!) vs 'shiney coats'. No bitch who isn't in good health should be mated, and neither should one with a serious fault, like an incorrect front, or rear. Which is why, much as a health check by a vet should done if needed, an indepth knowledge of the breed and common faults, is way more important - only top quality animals should be bred from, with wins in whatever discipline the animal competes in to prove they have something to give back to the breed, should ever be bred from.
 

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" with wins in whatever discipline the animal competes in to prove they have something to give back to the breed, "

Could not agree more. Even better is multiple disciplines.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Inbreeding, mother to son, daughter to father, and brother to sister is the closest form of linebreeding. Half brother to half sister would, assuming the common sire or dam isn't closely bred, be fine - the UK KC will accept such matings (where they don't with any that is inbred as above) but advise the breeder talks to knowledgeable fellow-breeders, in the breed, before going ahead with a half brother/half sister mating. Most breeders tend to line breed because it fixes type. But they also know, or should!, when to go for an outcross mating. not that within some breeds, you can go out in the truest sense.
Thanks for breaking that down. The sire is inbred, then, if he was bred from daughter to father.
 

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"the UK KC will accept such matings (where they don't with any that is inbred as above"


that is not the case with AKC which does not care.

from Soundtracks link above
"Willis (1989) defines INBREEDING as the mating of animals "more closely related to one another than the average relationship within the breed." Inbred pairings would include brother/sister (the closest form), father/daughter, mother/son and half-brother/half-sister. LINEBREEDING involves breeding relatives other than the individual parents or brothers and sisters. Typical linebred matings are grandfather/granddaughter, grandmother/grandson, grandson/granddaughter, great-granddaughter/great-grandson, uncle/niece, aunt/nephew and cousin crosses. Linebreeding is a less intense form of inbreeding. "


what you see is there is no clear definition between Inbreeding and Linebreeding it is why COI is important you can have a seeming normal pedigree have a Much Higher COI than one with a With a single very recent inbreeding.

The Ins and Outs of Pedigree Analysis, Genetic Diversity,
and Genetic Disease Control

"For the calculated inbreeding coefficient of a pedigree to be accurate, it must be based on several generations. Inbreeding in the fifth and later generations (background inbreeding) often has a profound effect on the genetic makeup of the offspring represented by the pedigree. In studies conducted on dog breeds, the difference in inbreeding coefficients based on four versus eight generation pedigrees varied immensely. A four generation pedigree containing 28 unique ancestors for 30 positions in the pedigree could generate a low inbreeding coefficient, while eight generations of the same pedigree, which contained 212 unique ancestors out of 510 possible
positions, had a considerably higher inbreeding coefficient. What seemed like an outbred mix of genes in a couple of generations, appeared as a linebred concentration of genes from influential ancestors in extended generations.

...In Bilye’s pedigree, an inbreeding
coefficient based on four generations
computes to 7.81%. This is not
significantly different from the estimate
based on the first-cousin mating alone. Inbreeding coefficients based on increasing numbers of generations are as follows: five generations, 13.34%; six generations, 18.19%; seven generations, 22.78%; eight generations, 24.01%; ten generations, 28.63%; and twelve generations, 30.81%. The inbreeding coefficient of 30.81 percent is more than what you would find in a
parent-to-offspring mating (25%). As you can see, the background inbreeding has far more influence on the total inbreeding coefficient than the first-cousin mating, which only appears to be its strongest influence."
 

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Just to add that for the most part, our Canadian litters were the result of phenotype matings rather than genotype for the simple reason that until we established our bloodline so had more choice around, we couldn't do line-breeding with our imports who came with us, or slightly later, from the UK to Canada. However, eventually I decided I needed to know what I'd got (once back in the UK) so I did two matings, one aunt to nephew and the other uncle to niece. Unfortunately the aunt to nephew only produced one puppy, a bitch, and the other ALL MALES. Well that went well - not. The puppy bitch wasn't totally what I wanted much as we did keep her. The males were good, and I kept one until he started challenging his uncle and I had to home him.

For our final litters back in the UK, we went out again, using an American bred Champion in the country for a couple of years and were able to pick up some common lines, using our Canadian bred UK Ch. bitch who came back with us. We later picked up a line back to the Tal e Ho we had and that litter was all good. There litters were line-bred litters but not that closely line bred.

The trouble with outcrossing is you might get excellent, but equally not so good. All part of the challenge of breeding!!
 
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