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Hi all!

Yesterday I took joey along to a basset show, not to compete but just to meet other hounds and owners. It was nice to meet other basset people and chat.

Anyway I could not help but notice and also everyone else noticed that joey was a fraction smaller than the other 7 month olds!!! A couple of people say he is on the lean and toned side.

I spoke to a lovely lady who was a basset representative at the club and he says that some of the bassets at the show were a little overweight and that joey was fine but he doesn't have as much excess skin that most bassets have and that he is having too much exercise!

I was a little shocked by this. I know you cannot walk bassets for miles until they are a year old but joey gets 3 small walks a day, when I say small I mean like 10 minutes each time. He i very active always running about the garden and house. He gets 3 meals a day and also gets treats throughout the day.

Our vet is clued up on bassets as she used to have one and on our last visit a few weeks go she say he I a very healthy looking boy and also the correct weight for his age.

Another guy at the show say joey would not be good for shows because he not got all the baggy skin.
I am possibly never going to show joey because it doesn't seem to be my cup of tea but it was a little sad for me when people were saying he looked too slim.

Sorry to ramble on bout it but really, just wanted some opinions on walking. Someone even suggested I change his food and only walk him once a day!!!!!


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I'm sorry you were apparently dumped on (your hound) by some people at this show, for starters. There are a lot of know-it-all people at shows, many of whom haven't been around the breed for very long, but think they are over-night experts!! As you will see from here, Bassets do come in many shapes and sizes, and for sure, they all develop at different rates, depending on their bloodline more often than not. Many people in the show-world, of which I was a big part at one point, want their 6 month puppies to look like the finished article early days, so they can hit the ring running. So to speak. These puppies are known as 'fliers', and much as it is nice to have a mature-looking puppy but how often do these puppies go all wrong and are never seen in the ring again by the time they hit a year!! Most of mine were a happy medium, but after I used a visiting American Champion, who did come from more slow-maturing lines, his son, which I'd kept along with one of the bitches, took forever to body up and after some early outings, I had to put him away for a time, until he looked the part. Both his sisters, and brother, were more like 'my' bloodlines.

What's happening in the UK today is that after some of our show-hounds here were just getting TOO big, fat (being confused for substance by many newer breeders) and totally unlikely to do the job they were originally bred to do, even if that was still possible in the UK now, the Breed Standard wording was adjusted to bring breeders back to how the breed should look - fit for purpose and not just a caricature.

But back to exercise. For me, and this has worked over the generations, Bassets should only be ambling around getting used to wearing a collar and lead, going at their own pace, for probably the first 6 months. Depending on how heavy the bone of the individual hound was. To many novice owners drag their hounds around the roads, causing untold damage and resulting in some of the conformation faults seen when this is allowed. After 6 months, owners should be gradually starting limited road work, coupled with the free ambling to give the muscles a chance to start building up to suppose the heavy bone. Provided the hound has stayed sound throughout, by 1 year, it should be good to go. Having one should be very much a work in progress - and the good bit with a Basset is quite often when too much is being done, they will do a Basset-flop. Which should be due warning. No stairs, especially not down when they are under a year.

The bottom line is you can nurture what you have in a puppy to bring out the best, but if loads of skin and bone isn't there, via his genes, you won't ever have one that drips with skin etc.

I'd also suggest that unless a vet sees lots of Bassets, they won't necessarily know the ins and outs of the breed and as such, may well prefer to see a hound who is a little on the lean side. I'd love to know where you got your basset which may shed some light on how he looks! You can email me via the link here.

ps There should be no difference between a hunting hound and a show hound - when the Albany was in the hands of the BHC, most of those hounds carrying similar weight to a show hound, wouldn't look that different - after all in those days, many of the stud the Pack took, were from show hounds!! Unfortunately with the Albany, since the split, they have used some Westerby hounds, which are not purebred, with the result that the Albany hounds are now taller, and with less surplus skin
Also just to say be careful about attending shows with an unentered Basset - you may have been able to walk into what was probably a Club Open show? But you won't be allowed in with your hound at a Championship show unless he's either entered in the classes or as 'not for exhibition'.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thank you franks mum. Yes it was just an open show, I emailed the bhc before hand to see if we could go along just for a look. Some people were really nice there but I could see some people looking at joey and thinking ooooh he is very small.

Joey came from breage helston in Cornwall. His mummy is a family hound, they live on a farm, his mummy 'Little Lucy Brown' only had the one litter which we got joey and she was not having another litter in the future as the pups were delivered by c section.

I have all his registration forms and his 5 generation pedigree details. What would you need off me to track his roots??

We feed joey royal canin, he has been on it the whole time, a couple of people said that its no good and that I should try him on pro plan to bulk him up. But I myself feel that he is a happy boy and I wouldn't want to change that. I'm not using him as a show dog so I don't want to bulk him up!!!

Haha I love the picture, joey is hardly ever like that he has alot of energy I think he would make a great hunting hound.

Lisa


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Joey came from breage helston in Cornwall. His mummy is a family hound, they live on a farm, his mummy 'Little Lucy Brown' only had the one litter which we got joey and she was not having another litter in the future as the pups were delivered by c section.

I have all his registration forms and his 5 generation pedigree details. What would you need off me to track his roots??

We feed joey royal canin, he has been on it the whole time, a couple of people said that its no good
Right, I don't know of any 'show' breeder living in the Helston area but 'Little Lucy Brown' tells me this is 'just' pet stock. With all respect of course - but you will notice a big difference between a hound coming from this background (I'll probably be able to identify his back-ground from my Breed Records -the KCSB Records ** - if he was registered with the KC although the name of his sire would help) and show lines. Not to say he's not going to be a lovely pet, but will just look different to most show stock.

As for Royal Canin - of course if it ain't broke and all that, but my current hound who came from one of the older producing kennels the other side of the country, was reared on Royal Canin Junior which has 32% protein and as a 4 month puppy, when he came to us, was HUGE. Once I realised what was going on (and it involved full x-rays after he started limping - I'd thought Pano which it wasn't - at around 7- 8 months) I took him off that food fast, and onto Burns (before the x-rays/limping actually). He was also having very loose stools and Giardia was found early on which was cleared, but left him with a digestive system that was delicate. I then had him on Arden Grange Sensitive which has worked. I'd not switch yours to Pro Plan although we did use this out in Canada for a while. But we all have our own idea about what works. And at the end of the day, as I've said, you can only feed for what's there - not change for what isn't. :p

I've sent you a pm. with my personal email address.

Add ** I have discovered a 'show line' on the sire's side of Little Lucy (her dad). Much as these hounds were not ever shown. The kennel involved (which I'd rather not name here, but will if you email me) does tend to have smaller hounds, not having ever bred into the Dutch imported hounds.
 

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The UK is the only area I know of that advocates limited exercise for puppies. After one study whose results are being misinterpreted that said there is les HD (hip Dysplasia) in Labs that were on a limited exercise. This has for some reason been expaned to include all breed etc. My take on exercise is this, it is is about moderation and letting the dog be your guide. But too little exercise long term is more detrimental to the dog and a little excess. see
Exercise in Puppies-Are there rules?

How much exercise is ok for puppies? This is an especially pertinent question for owners of large breed puppies, since these breeds have a higher incidence than others of developmental orthopedic disorders such as hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia, and cartilage abnormalities known as osteochondrosis dissecans (OCD). As is all too often the case, however, these opinions generally lack solid scientific evidence to support them. Very little is known about the precise risks and benefits of different types and intensities of exercise in growing animals.
One case control observational study [1] surveyed dog owners and found playing with other dogs to be a risk factor for OCD. Another, similar study [2] found chasing balls and sticks was a risk factor for development of hip dysplasia and elbow abnormalities. However, these studies cannot answer the overall question, which is how much and what kinds of exercise pose how great a risk and provide how great a benefit. One study [3] found exercise to be part of the treatment of carpal laxity, another joint abnormality seen in large breed puppies, and there is no question that exercise has many benefits, including reducing the risk of obesity and simply being part of a normal, enjoyable life for a puppy.
There are many more studies on the effects of exercise in children than in puppies, and though it is always risky to extrapolate from one species to another, some useful information can be gained by using one organism as a model for another, as long as conclusions drawn in this way are cautious and tentative pending better data. In general, while some intense and repetitive exercise can pose a risk of damage to growth plates in children, exercise is overall seen as beneficial in improving bone density and reducing the risk of obesity and related health problems.
The research evidence, then, really does not provide anything like a definitive answer to questions about the effects of exercise in growing puppies. Common sense suggests that forcing a dog to exercise heavily when it does not wish to is not a good idea. Likewise, puppies sometimes have more enthusiasm than sense and can exercise to the point of heat exhaustion, blistered footpads, and other damage that may be less obvious. Therefore, a general principle of avoiding forced or voluntary extreme exercise is reasonable, but specific and absolute statements about what kind of exercise is allowed, what surfaces puppies should or should not exercise on, and so forth is merely opinion not supported by objective data. Such opinions may very well be informed by personal experience, and they may be reliable, but any opinion not founded on objective data must always be taken with a grain of salt and accepted provisionally until such data is available.
 

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The UK is the only area I know of that advocates limited exercise for puppies.
As anticipated :D:D:D:rolleyes:

I bred as many litters out in CANADA as I did back in the UK. And my opinons based on breeding and successfully rearing Basset puppies, have not altered in over 40 years now. And I am NOT alone. Best practice with this heavy boned breed is only to do limited exercise, at the hound's own pace, for the first 6 months. After then, to encourage muscle tone to build up to protect the big bone and joints, gradually increased exercise should be given from 6 months to a year after which, if it's all gone to plan, the hound should be good to go.

You only have to look at some of the examples of fronts especially on here, to see what can so often be the result of too much too soon. I can't show you any of the hounds we reared, that looked like some of these do. With no disrespect to the owners of these dear hounds of course.

Does this have to boil down to a 'them vs us' thing? I thought this was a world-wide forum?:eek:

ps Of course if you have light boned Bassets, that lack substance the breed should typical have, then you'd get away with allowing a youngster to run until it drops. And we are talking Bassets here - not puppies in general?
 

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Does this have to boil down to a 'them vs us' thing? I thought this was a world-wide forum?:eek:[/qyuote]

nope just stating the facts An mention the UK because that is where the poster recieved the commen on over exercise just putting things in context.

1. basic ruled advocated in UK 5 minute of "exercise" for every month the puppy is old.

a. the rule as be intepreted from to mean 5 minute per month total for a day, 5 minutes for every month at one time but can occur multiple time a day and these multiples can vary.

b. Is intrepreted to mean only force exrecise ie on leash by some and total exercise including time playing in the grarden etc. by others.


After then, to encourage muscle tone to build up to protect the big bone and joints, gradually increased exercise should be given from 6 months to a year after which, if it's all gone to plan, the hound should be good to go.
IMHO it is better to be developming muscle tone from the get go there are resonable precoautions to take with younger pups as far as limiting impacts that can damage growth plates as the like. but this is very different than limiting exercise as a whole.

And I am NOT alone. Best practice with this heavy boned breed is only to do limited exercise
true But I ask this one question of all breeder that advocate this. If the dogs you are breed require "special extraordinary" care in order to develop properly is that not a stron indication there is "excesiveness and exageration in your breeding program" a puppy should be able to be a puppy. I'm not advocating taking a 3 month puppy on a 10 mile hike but some sort of reasonableness based on the actual individual dog and not some hard and fast rule should prevail
 

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I came back to delete what I'd written before because I think I'm banging my head against a wall here. But I'll let it stand.

Because this is bothering me and I don't accept for one moment that this way of rearing basset puppies is exclusive to the UK, I have just dug out my AMERICAN breed books and find this ... "Above all do not allow puppy to climb stairs or go up or down more than two steps until about six months of age. With the heavy bone and anatomy of Basset fronts, great damage can be done by the dogs either pulling themselves up stairs or falling down them." Author? Peg Walton (Lyn Mar Acres USA.)

Okay this isn't about walking, but most would get the gist. Trouble is so often you hear about people dragging a very young Basset puppy along the street with the kids on the way to school (although these days, most go in a car lol) way before the puppy is ready to be doing that kind of exercise - and then the owner wonders why the puppy is lame much as some might suggest that if it's built right, it should stay right. Ain't necessarily so!

Common sense and an awareness that the Basset is not your average breed comes into all of this :rolleyes:. But again, limited exercise early days is NOT a UK exclusive idea - this has been raised on here before this particular thread. As you know.

'Excessiveness and exaggeration' has been seen in recent years in the UK (not in my line btw - I've not bred a litter since 1997) but not doing anything other than limited exercise for about the first 6 months has been the case here for as long as I can remember - back to our first Basset who we bought in 1972, at a time when US Bassets were big heavy hounds, and UK hounds were the opposite.

"Although playing and romping is essential for health and growth, jumping or leaping from a height must be prevented until the bones are strong enough and the body sufficiently firmly knit to be able to stand up to the jars produced by such feats without injury. .... A Basset should not be taken out for regular road walks on a lead until he is six months old and even at that age road exercise should not be overdone. As puppies increase in strength after the age of six or eight weeks let them play in the sunshine as much as they wish, but serious controlled pedestrian activity should not be given for the first six months. " Source: The Basset Hound, Ch. 9 page 67. E. Fitch Daglish published Foyles in 1964
 

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Joey you look nice & athletic... like me! I like to run with whippets & italian greyhounds at the dog park. I don't remember how much we walked when I was a puppy but I doubt it was much because I wasn't really a fan. It took lots of treats to get down the block. Boy have things changed! I'm 5 now & I run 5K's with my mama a few times a week. As long as you slowly worked up to your 30 minutes a day & there's no limping or flat basseting (due to fatigue... not out of stubbornness) I would think you'd be just fine. Besides... ladies like muscles.


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For an almost 7 months puppy, he looks perfectly fine to me. Okay not show-ready (he needs to drop for starters) but again, and knowing his lines now, he's what he was going to be. You wait until he's closer to 3 years. He'll look quite different.:D
 

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I came back to delete what I'd written before because I think I'm banging my head against a wall here. But I'll let it stand.

Because this is bothering me and I don't accept for one moment that this way of rearing basset puppies is exclusive to the UK, I have just dug out my AMERICAN breed books and find this ... "Above all do not allow puppy to climb stairs or go up or down more than two steps until about six months of age. With the heavy bone and anatomy of Basset fronts, great damage can be done by the dogs either pulling themselves up stairs or falling down them." Author? Peg Walton (Lyn Mar Acres USA.)

Okay this isn't about walking, but most would get the gist. Trouble is so often you hear about people dragging a very young Basset puppy along the street with the kids on the way to school (although these days, most go in a car lol) way before the puppy is ready to be doing that kind of exercise - and then the owner wonders why the puppy is lame much as some might suggest that if it's built right, it should stay right. Ain't necessarily so!

Common sense and an awareness that the Basset is not your average breed comes into all of this :rolleyes:. But again, limited exercise early days is NOT a UK exclusive idea - this has been raised on here before this particular thread. As you know.

'Excessiveness and exaggeration' has been seen in recent years in the UK (not in my line btw - I've not bred a litter since 1997) but not doing anything other than limited exercise for about the first 6 months has been the case here for as long as I can remember - back to our first Basset who we bought in 1972, at a time when US Bassets were big heavy hounds, and UK hounds were the opposite.

"Although playing and romping is essential for health and growth, jumping or leaping from a height must be prevented until the bones are strong enough and the body sufficiently firmly knit to be able to stand up to the jars produced by such feats without injury. .... A Basset should not be taken out for regular road walks on a lead until he is six months old and even at that age road exercise should not be overdone. As puppies increase in strength after the age of six or eight weeks let them play in the sunshine as much as they wish, but serious controlled pedestrian activity should not be given for the first six months. " Source: The Basset Hound, Ch. 9 page 67. E. Fitch Daglish published Foyles in 1964

'No one is as deaf as the man who will not listen', so treat it as a dog would in a stresfull situation *** on it & walk away
. They obviously breed a very different dog outside the UK, though with some very strange legs.
 

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Flash is like Joey,very lean and toned. Many people mix her up with a begal. Its true she
Doesn't have the fat rolls and loose skin like many people think they should have but
I like seeing her that fit. We walk and play everyday. It is our bonding time. Joey is perfect in his own way, just like Flash is and every other Basset. :)
 

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Joey looks like a 7 month old should look.My opinion on exercise is more towards Franksmum way of letting the puppy be a puppy for the first 6 months at least, short walks being ok,after that you want to build some muscle and keep them fit. Joey has some nice points about him ,his front does not look bad by that I mean his legs are not going to either extream. what Franksmum means when she says he has to drop is as a basset matures his chest will drop between the front legs and it does give them a very different look. It is really very interesting how bassets can change as they mature.My avatar is Bubba at 17 months of age when he filled out he was just beautiful.There may be a photo in my gallery of him matured.
 

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I don't breed nor show, my babies are purely family members.

That being said, Jake and Ellie are two very different looking bassets. Jake is not very wrinkled, or droopy eyed, but seems to conform to the standard. Ellie has more wrinkles, droopier eyes and longer ears. Also conforms. No doubt looking at either that they are pure breed bassets.

I think some folks are a bit snobbish about what they "deem" as a "good" basset. If you are not a breeder or shower, then who cares! Its the personality and traits that make the hound. If you are enchanted... screw the others opinions. they are probably just Blow Hards!
 

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but not doing anything other than limited exercise for about the first 6 months has been the case here for as long as I can remember

there is a big difference between limiting exercise to 5 minutes per month of age which includes low impact walking, vs avoiding trauma from high impact manuevers,ie stairs, jumping, etc. or common sense approach of letting the dog dictate how much excercise it should get base on the individual dogs fitness level and other similar criteria. and building up the dogs fitness level on a slow consistent gradual basis.

That said what was even more aggregious was equating the lack of excess skin with exercise
 

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Franksmum way of letting the puppy be a puppy for the first 6 months at least
there are many in the UK that interpret the 5 minute of excercise per day not as strictly a limit on forced exercise ie on leash. but rather all excercise including play, which is certainly not letting puppies be puppies.
 

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nice pics Joey!

hey that's what must be happening to me... i am 'dropping.' my person says i have gained 4-5 pounds since Dec/Jan, tho i haven't gotten any taller or longer. she says it must be that my insides and internal organs are growing and my ribsies are expanding, esp downwards. finally, about time. i'm 2 1/2 yrs old already! thx for explaining, we weren't quite sure WHAT wuz going on!

--Worm
 
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