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Discussion Starter #1
A friend of mine makes felted animals and the other day she was asked to make a dog from a couple of photos that she took to be a Basset Hound, so when she showed me the pictures, I thought the face was slightly different, the legs a wee bit longer and the body slightly shorter and wondered if it was crossed with a Beagle....

My friend asked the owner if his dog was a pure Basset or was it crossed with a Beagle and he said it is a SPRINGBATT (Springer/Basset cross) and I have never heard of this breed before so googled them and they are quite pretty dogs.... click on the link and look through some pics!

http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q=springbatts%20dogs&psj=1&wrapid=tlif12947093688751&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1068&bih=670

http://manorroyspringbatts.webs.com/SDC10308.JPG

 

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Call any deliberate cross breeding without a defined working purpose or for the creation of a breed that has a defined purpose a "breed" is a mis nomer designer mutt is a more apt discription.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I've never heard of that breed either, but they certainly are adorable :)
They do look adorable and a Basset/Springer mix will be easier to train than a pure Basset because Spaniels can be very obedient, judging by my sister's Springers, who walk without leads and do as they are asked, whereas my Bassets seem to have selective hearing and are not good off leads unless I have one off and one on as they don't like to be separated and will run off together if they sniff a rabbit!!!!

I guess there aren't many Springbatts around as I can only see the one breeder (after a quick google) and I suppose it's one of these newish 'designer' breeds, which used to be known as 'mutts', yet sell for as much or more than a 'pure' bred dog!

I love the colour and markings of these pups!

 

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Call any deliberate cross breeding without a defined working purpose or for the creation of a breed that has a defined purpose a "breed" is a mis nomer designer mutt is a more apt discription.
I would agree with this statement.

Unfortunately these "designer breeds" are prime dogs for puppy mill production since they sell for huge $$ and have no need for registration or regulation by any breed club or standard.
 

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a Basset/Springer mix will be easier to train than a pure Basset because Spaniels can be very obedient
Not necessarily. When mixing breeds there's no way to determine which traits will come from which parent. You could easily end up with a dog that's just as "stubborn" as any Basset, with more hair.

FWIW, my Bassets walk with out leads and pretty much do as they're asked.
 

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C'mon folks Look at those pups . Someone is trying to pull a fast one here. Those pups are bassets. To have a mixture of breeds you will get some of the litter that look more like one side than the other ,but none of these even look remotely like a Springer or have any traits there of,no feathering what so ever. There would have to be a pup or two that resembled a Springer even just a tiny bit. There is none! Even the so-called adults do not have any Springer traits. Maybe a little longer legs but some poorly bred bassets have that trait,shorter ears ? Pure bred bassets can have that trait too. There is nothing, let me say that again,nothing, about these dogs that anyone can point out and say they are mixed. There are no photos of possible parents even. And just for the record a "designer breed" is just a" mutt", that some fool gets some other fool's money for. Ok, a bit harsh but.......
 

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Just now saw the website ,still think these people are full of it. Maybe there was an accidental breeding at some point and they decieded to cash in on it but to have a mixed breed that doesn't have some sort of trait of what it is mixed with is still weird to me. The first generation especially should have traits of both parents, there are none. There is only one dog on that site that resembles a Springer and thats cause it is. They could be buying unregistered bassets then selling the pups for a huge amount calling them whatever they want. I still don't see the Springer anywhere in any of their puppies.
 

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The whole designer breed idea is pretty much a scam, wouldn't surprise me in the least if a few or many of the "breeders" are simply scam artists.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
When I first saw the pictures of the 'Springbatt' my friend had to use for copying to make her felted version, I thought it was a Basset/Beagle cross as the legs were slightly longer than my Bassets and their ears were a bit like a Beagle's ears, but it was really nice looking to be honest, deep chestnut and white!

Re Springbatts being 'mutts' in that case, my Bassets are 'mutts' to a certain extent because they were Bloodhounds crossed with Beagles to start with! I wonder if the appearance depends on whether the Basset is the mum... I shall try and find out more!!!

This Springbatt has a Spaniel look to its face




C'mon folks Look at those pups . Someone is trying to pull a fast one here. Those pups are bassets. To have a mixture of breeds you will get some of the litter that look more like one side than the other ,but none of these even look remotely like a Springer or have any traits there of,no feathering what so ever. There would have to be a pup or two that resembled a Springer even just a tiny bit. There is none! Even the so-called adults do not have any Springer traits. Maybe a little longer legs but some poorly bred bassets have that trait,shorter ears ? Pure bred bassets can have that trait too. There is nothing, let me say that again,nothing, about these dogs that anyone can point out and say they are mixed. There are no photos of possible parents even. And just for the record a "designer breed" is just a" mutt", that some fool gets some other fool's money for. Ok, a bit harsh but.......
Look how gorgeous some of these felted Bassets are... does anyone on here make anything like this?

http://www.google.co.uk/images?um=1&hl=en&biw=1236&bih=644&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=Needle+felted+Basset+Hounds&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=
 

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It's true that all breeds started as mutts, but bassets, for example, according to some accounts have been around for hundreds of years. Usually it takes several decades of existence before a breed is recognized as an official breed. Not really a fair comparison to throwing 2 different breed parents together in a litter.
 

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Eye problems Oh Yeah,glaucoma is a big one.Of course there are some back and leg problems but just because you add another breed does not make them healthy .Something is bound to show up somewhere in the course of producing all those pups.How about "thrombopathia" are they getting any of their bassets tested for this bleeding disorder,NO,how do I know, because the only place doing the testing is Auburn University. Most of the dogs I've seen on the website have no shorter backs than most bassets so down the road back problems could still be an issue. What about the problems Springer 's suffer from,now, combine them with a basset,they don't cancel each other out. Any domesticated breed of dog we have today has been mixed with other combinations to get the genitic code it has that breeds true when bred to one of it's own.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Springbatts...............for dingbats!

I wonder when this cross-breeding for so-called "designer dogs" started!

I know people who have Labradoodles and Cockapoos and hopefully I shall be meeting up with the guy with the 4-year old Springbatt!!!!

Strange how the previously bred 'mutts' are now costing as much or more than the breeds they are mixed with!!!

Give me a real Basset Hound any day!!!:cool:
 

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I remember when mutts were free,not any more .If you can mix it you can charge for it. Jugs, pugs and jack russels. I'm with you Sophie,I like my bassets pure(as they can get anyway)
 

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I remember when mutts were free,not any more .If you can mix it you can charge for it. Jugs, pugs and jack russels. I'm with you Sophie,I like my bassets pure(as they can get anyway)
They're definitely less than $200 at the local shelter... Anabelle was $150. My mutt was free since he was my sister's. And they're only charging to pay for their care before you adopt them (spay/neuter, microchip, food, etc).

My mutt is mostly corgi and basset... Bagi? Corset? Or you could opt for the beagle and basset in him and he could be a Bagel. I've had people come up to me and ask what breed of dog he is because he's beautiful. Some are shocked when I answer with "a mutt". He does have a great face and luxurious coat (coat of a Corgi).
 

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It's true that all breeds started as mutts,
No, all breeds started out as ONE "breed" and diversified as mutations occured. A huge percentage of our current day breeds are a result of *splitting* breeds, not combining them.
 

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I wonder when this cross-breeding for so-called "designer dogs" started!
It has alway been around but got a big boost with the "labrodoodle" which was purpose bred for some time to try and create a service breed (seeing eye, etc) fthe was more hypoalergenic for patients that had allergies. There are still some working on creating an actual breed that does breed true, but this is far from the majority of breeders. The problem so far include that many of the disired traits are only showing up in crosses not subsequent breedings so these traits may be the result of heterogenus gene pairs which will never breed true, and for breeder to come to some consencious of just what the breed should look like and its purpose.

There is quite a bit of difference between cross breeding for a specific purpose as the early labradoodles and just because it creates a cute name and dog . Dogs breed evloved to suit a purpose, without that overriding goal one can not sustain a breed.


A huge percentage of our current day breeds are a result of *splitting* breeds, not combining them.
i.e norfolk and norwich terriers.


Most of the dogs I've seen on the website have no shorter backs than most bassets so down the road back problems could still be an issue.
This is a common misconception that back problems with dwarf breed ie corgis dachshund and bassets are a result of their relitively long back. Well if you do an actual comarasion you will find that Basset are not longer on average than the protypical dog of the same weight. It is not their backs are longer simply that their legs are shorter. However this type of dwarfism has a profound effect on the disks of the back making them more prone to rupture. A six-1 year old dwarf breed has disc that are the equivelent of a 10 year typical dog. It is not back length but the short legs that are a problem and as such any crosses will the typical darfism characteristics will have the same problems.

Canine Intervertebral Disk Disease

Disks can be divided into two histochemical types: 1) chondrodystrophoid and 2) nonchondrodystrophoid or fibroid. The word "chondrodystrophoid" literally means faulty development or nutrition of cartilage. In humans, chondrodystrophoism is recognized physically (phenotypically) as dwarfism, where individuals are smaller than normal and whose parts (especially limbs) are disproportionate. Certain breeds of dogs, such as dachshunds, show their chondrodystrophism by having disproportionately short and angulated limbs. However, phenotypic characteristics alone can not be used to identify chondrodystrophoid dogs. Other breeds, such as miniature poodles and beagles, have been histochemically identified to have chondrodystrophoid disks and yet do not appear outwardly to be chondrodystrophoid.

...The nucleus pulposus in chondrodystrophoid is almost completely composed of dense fibrocartilage which appears to have completed the chondrofication process. There are only isolated "islands" of notochordal cell remnants seen. In contrast the intracellular matrix of the nonchondrodystrophoid disk is loose and fibrillar and contains notochordal cells only.
The amount of pressure that builds up inside the disk when forces are applied depends on two factors: 1) the water binding properties of the nucleus (more water equals more elasticity) and 2) the degree of resistance and elasticity of the annulus and surrounding structures. These factors are highly dependent on the histochemical makeup of the disk and the changes it undergoes during aging.

...

Biochemical differences between chondrodystrophoid and nonchondrodystrophoid disks are apparent shortly after birth and explain the differences in the types of degeneration that occur. The degeneration that occurs in chondrodystrophoid disks is called chondroid metaplasia because the nucleus pulposus is gradually replaced with cartilage. Degeneration takes place rapidly and begins as early as 6 months of age starting at the periphery of the nucleus pulposus and progressing centrally. A dramatic and rapid increase in collagen content, as much as 30-40% by dry weight, is seen between 6 and 12 months of age. In addition, total glucosaminoglycan content will be 30 to 50% lower than age matched nonchondrodystrophoid dogs within the first 3 years resulting in a great loss of water content in the nucleus. When this happens, the nucleus loses its elasticity and no longer acts as an efficient shock absorber. Eventually the hyaline cartilage which forms calcifies, leading to almost complete lose of elasticity intervertebral the nucleus pulposus. The overall result is that of placing more of the "workload" on the annulus fibrosus while it is simultaneously undergoing degeneration

...In comparison, nonchondrodystrophoid disks degenerate by fibroid metaplasia with the process becoming clinically significant at 8 to 10 years of age. Fibroid degeneration involves a gradual process of dehydration, and therefore loss of elasticity, of the nucleus pulposus with the incorporation of increasing amounts of collagen and polysaccharides (chondroitin sulfate and keratin sulfate).
 

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I've had people come up to me and ask what breed of dog he is because he's beautiful. Some are shocked when I answer with "a mutt".
I've had the same thing with Doppler. People see him and ask what kind that is and when I say basset/redbone mix they look confused. Most people have never even heard of a redbone. We hadn't until my in-law's mailman said that's what he looked like and we Googled it. He's got the coat color, eye color, and webbed toes of the redbone and the stubby legs, droopy jowls, and long body of a basset. However, he's got a longer coat and feathered tail which neither of the two hunting dogs have which leads us to believe he's got something else in him such as a golden. I'm not sure and I don't care. He's the most fantastic dog ever and I love him! He's a great conversation starter for sure!
 

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C'mon folks Look at those pups . Someone is trying to pull a fast one here. Those pups are bassets. To have a mixture of breeds you will get some of the litter that look more like one side than the other ,but none of these even look remotely like a Springer or have any traits there of,no feathering what so ever. There would have to be a pup or two that resembled a Springer even just a tiny bit. There is none! Even the so-called adults do not have any Springer traits. Maybe a little longer legs but some poorly bred bassets have that trait,shorter ears ? Pure bred bassets can have that trait too. There is nothing, let me say that again,nothing, about these dogs that anyone can point out and say they are mixed. There are no photos of possible parents even. And just for the record a "designer breed" is just a" mutt", that some fool gets some other fool's money for. Ok, a bit harsh but.......
I think you will find if you read the website that the dogs are not all first generation crosses but 2nd 3rd and 4th, by selective breeding the long hair and feathers has been bred out to produce coats that are easier to look after, the backs are shorter than bassets and legs are longer, there are occasionally some fluffier coated and longer legged pups as you can see from the pictures, anyone that knows anything about bassets can see they are not purebred basset pups. The photos in the website are of the parents, so how can you say no photos of the possible parents can be seen. And as someone else stated, most breeds of dogs are originally a cross. If you find photos of bassets over 50 years ago, they look more like springbatts do now, not like the massive heavy overweight wrinkly skinned show dogs you see now.
 
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