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Discussion Starter #1
Last night I had a trainer come to meet with me and Simon.
I am very pleased with him He basically is saying what every one says, but his aproach is very kind, he observed Simon for an hour. He was happy to say he had expected to find him to be aggresive, but really just found him to be dominant.
He gave me quite afew pointers and things to do, to achieve the leader position,
Simon was good with him he (sime) was trying so hard for him to play on his terms, but then he did what ken said, he laid down iwas quite proud of him. He hasn't bitten me all day
 

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He was happy to say he had expected to find him to be aggresive, but really just found him to be dominant.[/qoute]

Yikes! how I hate that kind of thinking.
See my post on the The Sporn and the Gentle Leader ...not happening

but I do take solice in thes words by Ray Coppinger when it comes to trainers using such teminology
A Talk with Ray & Lorna Coppinger

Barbara: Among your new views of the dog is a rejection of the trainer as the "alpha wolf" and the dogs as the "submissive pack member." Why have you rejected what has essentially become dogma in the dog training world?

Ray & Lorna: The alpha wolf model of dog training certainly does appear frequently in print, but we wonder if it was ever really incorporated into serious dog training. We suspect it was never very useful in training dogs, and that almost everybody intuitively knew that. It was "say one thing, do another."

...Training dogs is fun for me and for the dog, as it should be. Our sled dogs ran because running is fun and feels good. Endorphins are released, social interactions are increased. Try running while you're being submissive. Dogs aren't pulling sleds because they are forced to or are submitting to some person's will. Everybody who ever drove dogs knows that you absolutely cannot force them to do it.

Barbara: It will be hard to get that alpha wolf/submissive wolf thinking eliminated from the parlance of dog training, but for starters, how should people think about their relationship with their dog?

Ray & Lorna: It won't be hard to get the wolf pack mentality to go by the board simply because we don't think many of the experts ever really believed it. It is through social play behavior that animals learn from one another. Further, it is fun to play with our dogs even if none of us learn anything. It will certainly make more sense to the dog than to be tumbled onto its back and growled at by a human. "
Not meant to demean the trainer because obviously he is doing a good job. It is just these types of myths in the wrong hand leads to conclussion by many owners that often result in harsh treatment of dogs in the name of training. These dogs often end up with serious behavioral problems that result in eventually the dog being euthanised. This is a large problem in the country.

The other point I would Like to make is I think it was wise to seek out a professional to help you out. Just as you said "He basically is saying what every one says, but his aproach is very kind", you can read the word but human beings learn much better by observing. Just a little time with a professional can make thing better much faster than trying to implent what some one has wrtten, Something always get loss in the translation.

Good luck and continued success with your trainer and better behaved companion.

[ February 23, 2006, 10:37 PM: Message edited by: Mikey T ]
 

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ec, the important thing is that you're comfortable with your new trainer and his methods. If it's working for you and Simon, don't let any of the forum blowhards discourage you. ;)
 

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don't let any of the forum blowhards discourage you.
Certainly Not, I would be the first to admit it matters not whether the trainer is kind/nice to the dog or not. What matter is results. If what the trainer teaches works why would anyone stop?

To a large extent it matters little why it works only that it does. A good hands on instructor
is invaluable.

P.S. I readily admit to having the Dominance theory bug up my A$$ today and stuck in my craw ;)
 
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EVeryone has a different take, and I want to see all sides There are some things he said that make sense to me that i am doing He has not bitten at me all day
It doesn't really seem that anything would hurt. I saw how Siimon reacted to him
If you don't want different opinions you shouldn't post a question :eek:
 

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"There are some things he said that make sense to me that i am doing He has not bitten at me all day "

That's whats important. Why something works is much less important than the fact that it works.
 
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That's great that it's working. I have thought about a personal trainer for Homer, but I guess I was afraid he'd tell me there was not hope for him! I had a behavioralist in when I had him a short time and she had him on Prozac! She said he acted out agressively out of fear, not because he was mean. She thought he had been abused. She acted afraid and timid with him and thought that he should be in another home without cats. I later found out that she had to give up the dog with her on her brochure because she was unable to handle him! Homer is much improved since then. He's learned to trust me and he knows I love him. I think he's a real sweetie but, and this is a big but, we are still afraid to let him loose with the cats - or at least a couple of them. He also barks quite a bit which is very annoying when you want to have guests over. I do think he acts like a spoiled kid! He did attend obedience school - twice, although we really didn't keep his lessons up. Do you think a trainer would help?

Judy
 

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Glad it is working. We had a trainer who is a friend of a friend come to the house a couple of times when Oliver was first adopted and it was great. I think what helped the most was that it was in our house and he wasn't on good behavior because we were out in public and he wasn't overly distracted in a different place. He was about a year and housetrained just wild. We learned how to get his attention and what we were doing not necessarily wrong just inconsistant. It was an equal him and us training. The best thing we ever did.
 
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It is worth it I think to have someone observe your dog, in his surroundings. The things he said makes sense for example, If he bites at me, to push him off go in another room shut the door on him stay for 30 sec.
It works as well as you (me) make it work, just making him sit before he gets anything, He has been better.
He nipped at me 1x since wed. night
 
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