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Discussion Starter #1
http://www.thedogbowl.com/PPF/category_ID/37/dogbowl.asp

Click the link and let me know what you guys think about this? Do any of you use those current brands of dog food?

My question for all of you, is what brands do you guys TRUST? What brands would you never let your dog get near?

I am buying a basset hound (Wrigley) from a very good breeder and she has had him on Purina 1 healthy puppy. He is almost 11 weeks old and
she says I should switch the foods soon due to the fact hes kinda wolfing it down fast because the pieces are so small. Im sure this has been discussed
on here before, but I tried searching and came up with little to no info on BRAND NAMES that you can buy at pet stores, feed stores, and Vets. Its weird
that alot of information in books don't utilize brand names.

I have heard good things about Nutromax. Anyone else?

Oops misspelled "Horrors" wrong in the title. :huh:
 

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http://www.thedogbowl.com/PPF/category_ID/37/dogbowl.asp

Purina 1 healthy puppy. He is almost 11 weeks old and
she says I should switch the foods soon due to the fact hes kinda wolfing it down fast because the pieces are so small. Im sure this has been discussed
on here before, but I tried searching and came up with little to no info on BRAND NAMES that you can buy at pet stores, feed stores, and Vets. Its weird
that alot of information in books don't utilize brand names.

I have heard good things about Nutromax. Anyone else?

Oops misspelled "Horrors" wrong in the title. :huh:[/b]
Most horror stories about commercial kibble are more marketing than fact. Just use the search function on these forums (upper right ) and search "dog food". *Note give the search disdane for less than 4 letterword you may need to drop dog.

Keep in mind no two dogs are alike. There will be people that tout the latest and greats all natural no grain, all orgainic human grade meat dog food and you will find your dogs horrible on it.

This is my favorite article on feed dogs Dog food - help in making the choice easier
My dogs tend to do better on what I consider medium grade foods. Not the best/priciest stuff (Innova, California Natural, Canidae) but not the really cheap stuff either (Hi-Pro, Dog Chow). Remember price has nothing to do with what might work for your dog. Just because a food is listed in a magazine as their 10 best, doesn't mean its better than another food that isn't listed. They do no testing of the food, they base their opinions on the ingredients. My dogs have not done well on any of those foods. Think for yourself and don't get brainwashed into thinking you are a horrible pet owner if you don't buy these foods for your dog.

...Remember, what works for my dogs or anyone else's dog might not work for yours. Buy the smallest bag you can find of what you want to start trying and if the dog doesn't eat it or you don't like the results, then you aren't out much and you can donate the rest to a shelter. I swear this last year I have to have donated more food that didn't work out with my dogs to shelters than anyone else in my county. (laughs)[/b]
Oops misspelled "Horrors" wrong in the title.[/b]
Just what this site need someone else that types and spells as bad as me :lol:

since you like internet learning check out my must read articles for new basset puppy owners don't worry the list of links is only three pages long

1. The most important thing you cn do for your puppy is socialization. It will go a long way in preventing problems down the road
Countdown to a Crackerjack Canine Companion
Puppy Socialisation and Habituation (Part 1) Why is it Necessary?
Puppy Socialisation and Habituation How to go about it.
Developmental Stages Of Puppy Behavior

2. house traing
Housetraining Your Puppy
House Training: Ring My Bell!

3. Bitting an nipping
Bite Inhibition - How to Teach It
Puppy Biting - Have Patience
Biting Pant Legs & Ankles
Help with Puppy Chewing and Nipping Links

4. Preventing problems in the first place.
Managing Your Dog’s Behavior
Jean Donaldson's Top 10 Dog Training Tips
TEACHING SELF CONTROL
Leadership Basics
How Much Does Your Dog's Cooperation Weigh?
IT TAKES A PACK TO RAISE A PUPPY
Survival Skills for Pups
b
5. training the first artcle I alway mention in regard to raining bassets is the following
Hard to Train?

If you are able to find one a puppy kindergarten is a good way to one socialize the puppy and learn some training tips.

Why Food Treats?
REWARDS, LURES & BRIBES
luring
Puppy Training
Nine Easy Behaviors to Teach Your New Puppy
attention
Loose Leash Walking: The Total Picture
GREEN EGGS & HAM and DOG TRAINING?
The Sit Test
Generalization and Discrimination: Fraternal Twins
Generalization versus Discrimination
Never Never Say It Say It Twice-Twice
Opportunities to Reward

6. Dealing with problem behaviors. Rather than focus on what you don't want the dog to do focus on what behaviour you do want.
10 TIPS FOR DEALING WITH PROBLEM BEHAVIOR
Punishment: How not to do it.
Punishment or Negative Reinforcement - Draw your own conclusions, Pardner.
When to say "NO!" -- literally.
On Punishment
Quick Fix for a Jumping Dog
Technique Challenge: Counter Surfing
Table Manners
Stopping Negative Behavior Positively
You Won the Prize!"
Insights Into Puppy Mouthing
INTERNALIZING LEADERSHIP

7 My favoite subject the dominance Model of dog training
Macho Myth
Social Hierarches
The History and Misconceptions of Dominance Theory
Why Can't a Dog Be More Like a Dog?
Debunking the Dominance Myth
MOVING BEYOND THE DOMINANCE MYTH: TOWARD AN UNDERSTANDING OF TRAINING AS PARTNERSHIP
Effects of food availability on the display of dominant behavior and enforcement of group hierarchy in Canis lupus.
Alpha Status, Dominance, and Division of Labor
Most research on the social dynamics of wolf packs, however, has been conducted on wolves in captivity. These captive packs were usually composed of an assortment of wolves from various sources placed together and allowed to breed at will (Schenkel 1947; Rabb et al. 1967; Zimen 1975, 1982). This approach apparently reflected the view that in the wild, "pack formation starts with the beginning of winter" (Schenkel 1947), implying some sort of annual assembling of independent wolves. (Schenkel did consider the possibility that the pack was a family, as Murie (1944) had already reported, but only in a footnote.)

In captive packs, the unacquainted wolves formed dominance hierarchies featuring alpha, beta, omega animals, etc. With such assemblages, these dominance labels were probably appropriate, for most species thrown together in captivity would usually so arrange themselves.

In nature, however, the wolf pack is not such an assemblage. Rather, it is usually a family (Murie 1944; Young and Goldman 1944; Mech 1970, 1988; Clark 1971; Haber 1977) including a breeding pair and their offspring of the previous 1-3 years, or sometimes two or three such families (Murie 1944; Haber 1977; Mech et al. 1998).

...Attempting to apply information about the behavior of assemblages of unrelated captive wolves to the familial structure of natural packs has resulted in considerable confusion. Such an approach is analogous to trying to draw inferences about human family dynamics by studying humans in refugee camps.

...Labeling a high-ranking wolf alpha emphasizes its rank in a dominance hierarchy. However, in natural wolf packs, the alpha male or female are merely the breeding animals, the parents of the pack, and dominance contests with other wolves are rare, if they exist at all. During my 13 summers observing the Ellesmere Island pack, I saw none.

Thus, calling a wolf an alpha is usually no more appropriate than referring to a human parent or a doe deer as an alpha. Any parent is dominant to its young offspring, so "alpha" adds no information. Why not refer to an alpha female as the female parent, the breeding female, the matriarch, or simply the mother? Such a designation emphasizes not the animal's dominant status, which is trivial information, but its role as pack progenitor, which is critical information.

...The typical wolf pack, then, should be viewed as a family with the adult parents guiding the activities of the group and sharing group leadership in a division-of-labor system in which the female predominates primarily in such activities as pup care and defense and the male primarily during foraging and food-provisioning and the travels associated with them (L.D. Mech, see footnote).[/b]
The Myth of Alpha (Part 1)
The Myth of Alpha (Part 2)
“Pack Leader” Myths
Beyond the "Dominance" Paradigm
Being the Alpha
Assessing the Alpha Roll
Canine Dominance Revisited
Dominance
Reconsidering the Dominance Model in Dog Training
Some Thoughts on Letting go of the Dominance Paradigm in Training Dogs

8 Exercise and games
Scent Games
FITNESS IN YOUR BACKYARD
Tug of War
Games Dogs Love
<a href="http://users.tkk.fi/~mtt/belg_tricks.html" target="_blank">Suggestions for brain work, tricks and exercises to do with your dog.
</a>
Kong Stuffing Pointers
American Hunting Basset Association.
Craig Green's Tracking Articles
buster cube
Dog Parks - The Garden of Eden
IS THERE SUCH A THING AS TOO MUCH FETCH?


any questions?
 

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Does the Dog Bowl have a biased interest in dog foods --- only that they are trying to sell you their food , which they deliver --- can they provide facts about their claims ??? Probably not




Most horror stories about commercial kibble are more marketing than fact. Just use the search function on these forums (upper right ) and search "dog food". *Note give the search disdane for less than 4 letterword you may need to drop dog.

Keep in mind no two dogs are alike. There will be people that tout the latest and greats all natural no grain, all orgainic human grade meat dog food and you will find your dogs horrible on it.

This is my favorite article on feed dogs Dog food - help in making the choice easier
Just what this site need someone else that types and spells as bad as me :lol:

since you like internet learning check out my must read articles for new basset puppy owners don't worry the list of links is only three pages long

1. The most important thing you cn do for your puppy is socialization. It will go a long way in preventing problems down the road
Countdown to a Crackerjack Canine Companion
Puppy Socialisation and Habituation (Part 1) Why is it Necessary?
Puppy Socialisation and Habituation How to go about it.
Developmental Stages Of Puppy Behavior

2. house traing
Housetraining Your Puppy
House Training: Ring My Bell!

3. Bitting an nipping
Bite Inhibition - How to Teach It
Puppy Biting - Have Patience
Biting Pant Legs & Ankles
Help with Puppy Chewing and Nipping Links

4. Preventing problems in the first place.
Managing Your Dog’s Behavior
Jean Donaldson's Top 10 Dog Training Tips
TEACHING SELF CONTROL
Leadership Basics
How Much Does Your Dog's Cooperation Weigh?
IT TAKES A PACK TO RAISE A PUPPY
Survival Skills for Pups
b
5. training the first artcle I alway mention in regard to raining bassets is the following
Hard to Train?

If you are able to find one a puppy kindergarten is a good way to one socialize the puppy and learn some training tips.

Why Food Treats?
REWARDS, LURES & BRIBES
luring
Puppy Training
Nine Easy Behaviors to Teach Your New Puppy
attention
Loose Leash Walking: The Total Picture
GREEN EGGS & HAM and DOG TRAINING?
The Sit Test
Generalization and Discrimination: Fraternal Twins
Generalization versus Discrimination
Never Never Say It Say It Twice-Twice
Opportunities to Reward

6. Dealing with problem behaviors. Rather than focus on what you don't want the dog to do focus on what behaviour you do want.
10 TIPS FOR DEALING WITH PROBLEM BEHAVIOR
Punishment: How not to do it.
Punishment or Negative Reinforcement - Draw your own conclusions, Pardner.
When to say "NO!" -- literally.
On Punishment
Quick Fix for a Jumping Dog
Technique Challenge: Counter Surfing
Table Manners
Stopping Negative Behavior Positively
You Won the Prize!"
Insights Into Puppy Mouthing
INTERNALIZING LEADERSHIP

7 My favoite subject the dominance Model of dog training
Macho Myth
Social Hierarches
The History and Misconceptions of Dominance Theory
Why Can't a Dog Be More Like a Dog?
Debunking the Dominance Myth
MOVING BEYOND THE DOMINANCE MYTH: TOWARD AN UNDERSTANDING OF TRAINING AS PARTNERSHIP
Effects of food availability on the display of dominant behavior and enforcement of group hierarchy in Canis lupus.
Alpha Status, Dominance, and Division of Labor
The Myth of Alpha (Part 1)
The Myth of Alpha (Part 2)
“Pack Leader” Myths
Beyond the "Dominance" Paradigm
Being the Alpha
Assessing the Alpha Roll
Canine Dominance Revisited
Dominance
Reconsidering the Dominance Model in Dog Training
Some Thoughts on Letting go of the Dominance Paradigm in Training Dogs

8 Exercise and games
Scent Games
FITNESS IN YOUR BACKYARD
Tug of War
Games Dogs Love
<a href="http://users.tkk.fi/~mtt/belg_tricks.html" target="_blank">Suggestions for brain work, tricks and exercises to do with your dog.
</a>
Kong Stuffing Pointers
American Hunting Basset Association.
Craig Green's Tracking Articles
buster cube
Dog Parks - The Garden of Eden
IS THERE SUCH A THING AS TOO MUCH FETCH?
any questions?[/b]
 

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Does the Dog Bowl have a biased interest in dog foods --- only that they are trying to sell you their food , which they deliver --- can they provide facts about their claims ??? Probably not[/b]
It is more than unsubstantiated claims it out right lies.
from the dog bowl site
What this amounts to is an appalling mixture of chicken feet, dead animals, euthanized dogs and cats, lungs, ligaments, beaks, teeth, intestines, and more. This bad dog food is cleaned up with the all-encompassing label of “meat-and-bone meal” and “by-products” on the outside of the bag.[/b]
first we have the euthanized pet myth in dog foods the final word for
Food and Drug Administration/Center for Veterinary Medicine Report on the risk from pentobarbital in dog food
Because pentobarbital is used to euthanize dogs and cats at animal shelters, finding pentobarbital in rendered feed ingredients could suggest that the pets were rendered and used in pet food.

CVM scientists, as part of their investigation, developed a test to detect dog and cat DNA in the protein of the dog food. All samples from the most recent dog food survey (2000) that tested positive for pentobarbital, as well as a subset of samples that tested negative, were examined for the presence of remains derived from dogs or cats. The results demonstrated a complete absence of material that would have been derived from euthanized dogs or cats. The sensitivity of this method is 0.005% on a weight/weight basis; that is, the method can detect a minimum of 5 pounds of rendered remains in 50 tons of finished feed. Presently, it is assumed that the pentobarbital residues are entering pet foods from euthanized, rendered cattle or even horses.[/b]


euthanized pets as pet food ingredients

teeth are not by-broducts by definition

Meat By-Products - the non rendered, clean parts, other than meat, derived from slaughtered mammals. It includes, but is not limited to, lungs, spleen, kidneys, brain, livers, blood, bone, partially defatted low-temperature fatty tissue and stomachs and intestines freed of their contents. It does not include hair, horns, teeth and hooves.


The Pet Food Ingredient Game
...Are By-Products Evil?
In the processing of human foods there are thousands of tons of by-products that cannot be readily sold to humans. Does that make them useless or even inferior? No. Such by-products could include
trimmings, viscera, organs, bones, gristle and anything else that humans do not desire. Should these
perfectly nutritious items be buried in a landfill? As I mentioned above, while Earth's resources continue
to decline and people starve around the globe, should we feed our pets only "human grade" foods and let perfectly edible and sometimes even more nutritious by-products go to waste? How is that
conscionable or justifiable for either the consumer or the producer?

...Digests, Meals And Other Boogeymen
Many producers attempt to sell their products by claiming they contain no "digests" or "meals." The
idea is that these are wicked ingredients and consumers should stay away from all products that contain
them. A digest is a product created when enzymes break down foods. After you eat a meal and it is
subjected to the acids and enzymes in the digestive tract it becomes a "digest." Fermented (digested) foods made from soy, dairy and vegetables are among the most nutritious of all foods. Some "primitive" peoples bury food in the ground to rot and ferment and then uncover it later to consume it with great savor and nutritional benefit. Scavengers survive, and survive quite well, on fermenting, rotting and digesting foods.

Meats, organs and trimmings can be likewise digested in vats creating both liquid and dried forms of
commercial pet food digests. Being predigested they are highly concentrated and nutritionally efficient. If we are to listen to the taste buds of pets they would vote yes on digests since they find them highly
palatable.

A"meal" is a food product that has been ground, mixed and dried. Meals are often used in pet foods
because they are stable, easily transported, stored and handled. Dried pet foods themselves are ground, mixed and dried meals. So that makes an interesting dilemma for those who promote their products as having no meals. As far as processed pet food ingredients go, meals and digests can have their merits. There are degrees of quality as there are with any ingredient. There may be better options such as using fresh whole ingredients, but focusing on finding a product without digests or meals and feeding it exclusively is not the key to health. Given in sufficient dose, anything can be toxic and dangerous, even water and oxygen. Healthy food is a mixed bag of variety, form, preparation, quality, balance and reason, not fear mongering or sensationalism.

4D
There is concern about dead, dying, downed (disabled) or diseased (4D) animals being used in pet
foods. Other than the fact that this just does not “sound” like wholesome food, there is the concern that these animals may contain drugs or communicable pathogens (although this can be true of "human grade" ingredients as well). My point here will not be to defend unwholesome or dangerous meats but to give some perspective. As you are learning in this paper, just about every marketing angle used by pet food manufacturers is more sensationalism than it is substance.

What does a carnivore eat in the wild? Is their diet only the strongest, most robust, fastest, healthiest and most elusive prey? Of course not. They seek and primarily feed upon the dead, dying, down and diseased " 4D" prey. That's exactly what humans who are alone in the wild, faced with survival, seek as well. Also, consider this, one of the largest markets for 4D meat is racing greyhounds. Not only are 4D meats fed, they are fed raw. Would kennels that make their living on the athletic performance of their animals feed foods that diseased their superstars or did not create results?...

If a cow breaks a leg in the field and is down, should it be killed and hauled to a landfill? How about a
chicken breast that was bruised on the processing line? Should they all be taken to a landfill because they might be called "4D," "by-products" or "non-human grade?" What is the ethic in discarding a creature that has in essence sacrificed its life for food? That's not how nature does it. Nothing is wasted.[/b]
Many super-premium brand are nothing more than marketing firms They sub-contraction out manufacturing to the firms they demonize. It is nearly immpossible to find Dog nutrition info on the web that is not biased. This includes the sources other than the FDA I have sited. Wysong which is a super premium pet food manufactures bias is raw is better with out a shred of hard evidence to suport their claim. You can spend a lot of needless time investigating all the myths but in reality is does little good, because in reality we know vary little when it comes to pet nutrition. IMHO the best judge of a dog food is how your dogs do when it is fed.
 

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again from dog bowl

"Some of the chemicals used in pet food include:

BHA (butylated hydroxyanisole) - known to cause liver and kidney dysfunction
BHT (butylated hydroxytolulene) - known to cause liver and kidney dysfunction
Ethoxyquin - suspected of causing cancer
Propylene glycol - causes the destruction of red blood cells
Some other things that may be added to bad dog food are:

Coloring agents
Drying agents
Flavoring agents
Lubricants
Texturizers "

They fail to mention that all of said ingredients are allowed in human food as well. As we all know what may be toxic at a very high level can have no effect or even be health at a lower level.

"These agencies profess standards and measures for dog food manufacturers to uphold, but they DO NOT have the authority to enforce them. Therefore, there are no assurances of the quality of ingredients that the major dog food manufacturers are putting into their bad dog food"

Again the agency do and can enforce manufacturing and ingredient standard the recent fines and criminal charges in recent contamination case are proof of that
Questions and Answers Concerning Pet Food Regulations

As for the original question, I do you feed one of these list foods yes. I feed a rotation of brands because I do not feel with what little we know about dog food claims made by six months feed studies that a particular food is nutrionally complete are wholely accurate. What we have learned from human nutrition the best way to combat the lack of knowledge is through variety. So Currently I feed three brand with specific requirements I am looking for min 30% protein and 20% fat. Nutro Hi-energy, Eukanuba premium performance and Royal Canin azEnergy 4800. I may be switch to a Solid Gold HI protein high Fat product from royal canin because of availability issues and a decreasing pricing differential.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I never really realized that they are prolly really biased. I have read through alot of thoes articles thanks so much! =)

Does anyone have any input on what brands are good vs bad? Or does it really matter, its just personal preference?

Thanks ;)
 

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I have feed my three Purina One since they were old enough to get adult dog food and they have all done really well. I have three rescues also and they also have done great on the Purina One.
 

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Hi. I use Nutro and Nutro Max on ALL my pets and have been very satisfied. My dogs eat the Nutro venison and brown rice and my cats eat the indoor kind. My 15.5 year old Lab has a cancer growth in her mouth that we keep having removed and she eats the canned varieties of Nutro and loves it (the cats kind of help her out a bit!) Actually, when I went to PetSmart for another bag of the Nurto Venison, they were out and they suggested the Nutro herring and potatoes. Unfortunately, Baxter doesn't care for it so they said I can bring it back and get something else. I don't know that I would like that combo myself! :lol:
 

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I used to feed my dogs Beneful...until I wised up a bit. I now feed them Nutro...the kind varies. PetSmart is currently out of a lot of Nutro products...so I'm having to change the "flavor" up a bit. Both my dogs are doing great on this food.

~Heather
 

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Does the Dog Bowl have a biased interest in dog foods --- only that they are trying to sell you their food , which they deliver --- can they provide facts about their claims ??? Probably not[/b]
I agree with you Dean. It seems as if the reason for the site is to make their food more marketable by stating negative things about the other dog food providers.

Fred has allergies and I switched him to Purina Pro plan and he has done GREAT. He has a shiny coat; firm, small stools, and I do not have to express his anal glands very often, like I did when he was on the "premium" foods. He just recently got tested for diabetes and he doesn't have it.

I learned the hard way not to believe everything you read on the internet about dog food, especially when it plays up one specific product being better than the rest.
 

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Does the Dog Bowl have a biased interest in dog foods --- only that they are trying to sell you their food , which they deliver --- can they provide facts about their claims ??? Probably not[/b]
I was going to post the same bias reason last night, but I didn't take the time then. I also read their recommended feeding amounts for some of their food, and it would cost me $15/day to feed my two hounds. (feed 2-3% of dog's weight daily at $93 for 24 lbs of food)
I'm not about to spend $450/month for dog food when it already cost me $100/month.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Tons of great info guys and gals! Thanks so much
I plan on going to Nutromax after I slowly get him aquainted to it. I plan on starting off by mixing it in little by little every feeding, and eventually I think he will get the hint =)
Anyone else wanna chime in?
 

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I'll second the old roy! When i adopted my 2 retired racing greyhounds, the people from AZ adopt a Grey hound recommended it to us. I have fed it to all of my dogs since. lamb and rice is what i normally would buy but bazels former owner had him on the complete nutrition kind so thats what he eats. my last dog jack got put on the lamb and rice formula due to terrible gas and it helped him out quit a bit(your mileage my vary).
 

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Tons of great info guys and gals! Thanks so much
I plan on going to Nutromax after I slowly get him aquainted to it. I plan on starting off by mixing it in little by little every feeding, and eventually I think he will get the hint =)
Anyone else wanna chime in?[/b]

I switched Nicky to Nutromax Natural Herring meal, rice and potato after I brought him home. It seems to help a lot with his hound smell and his feet which used to smell like he'd been strutting through corn chips. Your baby is precious!
 

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I feed Bogie the Purina Pro Plan Selects. When I adopted him, the rescue told me that the people who turned him in thought he had a problem with corn in food, so I searched for a while to find a food that he liked that didnt have corn. I originally gave him the turkey and barley formula, but I've since switched to the lamb and oat formula. He's been doing really well with it digestion-wise and it seems like his coat is much softer than it was when I first picked him up. In a dog food/blizzard emergency, I got a small bag of this all natural and I think organic chicken dry food from the wegmans down the street and Bogie just eats it up. I use the nuggets as treats now because he likes it so much. I will look up the brand when I get home.
 

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Feeding your dog high quality dogfood is good; we use lamb and rice formula, but most brands are fine. The website you referenced is BS. They attempt to make the human dog owner feel queasy about eating something that is perfectly OK for your dog (who is a lot less interested in the imaginary aesthetics of his or her food than we are), but not something you would eat yourself (heck, I wouldn't eat a tenth of what Lily finds delicious). If the “meat-and-bone meal” and “by-products” are rendered safe by cooking, then there's nothing wrong with the even if they originate from not-so-appetizing sources. The bottom line is they are using psychological scare tactic crap to get you to buy their very expensive product. <_< Hey, it's the American way.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Feeding your dog high quality dogfood is good; we use lamb and rice formula, but most brands are fine. The website you referenced is BS. They attempt to make the human dog owner feel queasy about eating something that is perfectly OK for your dog (who is a lot less interested in the imaginary aesthetics of his or her food than we are), but not something you would eat yourself (heck, I wouldn't eat a tenth of what Lily finds delicious). If the “meat-and-bone meal” and “by-products” are rendered safe by cooking, then there's nothing wrong with the even if they originate from not-so-appetizing sources. The bottom line is they are using psychological scare tactic crap to get you to buy their very expensive product. <_< Hey, it's the American way.[/b]

I here you on that one... Well Wrigley has just arrived. I picked him up today. Hes a handfull, but hes so cute!
 
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