[MissMolly]

What are a bassets a cross between?

My husband thinks they are a cross betweeen a bloodhound and a dashound. I don't think he is correct, but i can't find any info to prove him wrong. Help!?

 

[Guest]

I've been doing alot of research on bassets lately. I believe they were bred from Bloodhounds but the shortness was a genetic defect that occurred. Then they started breeding to obtain that particular trait. However, I'm new at this and I could be wrong.

 

[barblkr]

Originally posted by Oscar&Murphy's Mom:
I've been doing alot of research on bassets lately. I believe they were bred from Bloodhounds but the shortness was a genetic defect that occurred. Then they started breeding to obtain that particular trait. However, I'm new at this and I could be wrong.

That's what I've read in more than one source; I don't think anyone really knows for sure where the breed originates from, but I have read this more than once.

Personally, I think that they are half crocodile and half blood-hound.

 

[Mikey T]

for a more definitive history of the basset hound see Basset history on cyberhound

The basset hound is a direct descent of the Basset Artésien Normand there may have been some crossing with the bloodhound to increase bone size

from link above. "In 1892 Millais decided to cross his only basset hound, Nicholas (a heavily linebred dog on Fino de Paris) with a bloodhound.
...What Millais most likely did not realize that he did not just improve the Basset Artésien Normand, he created a new breed: today's basset hound."

the other bit of confussion that results in the quick synopsis of the orgins of the basset hound is this. All scent hounds including bloodhound and a number of french basset breeds are likely decendents of "ST. hubert Hounds" bred in the 7th century.
There are five different french breeds of hound with basset in the name. Basset meaning low. Most of these along with the basset hound rather than simply smaller versions of the regular hound appears to be dwarfs. Body size remains the same just the length of the long bones is much shorter. (yes there are other orthopeadic complications not the least of which makes them more prone to vertibrate disk disease).

so for the short answer to your question the basset hound of today is the result of a cross between a bloodhound and a Basset Artésien Normand
but bear in mind many of the characteristic that basset hounds and bloodhounds share is not because of this cross but relates much farther back to the St. Hubert Hound.

[ February 16, 2006, 06:13 PM: Message edited by: Mikey T ]

 

[Barbara Winters]

Eva Balogh's article In Search of the Past with a Computeradds interesting info to the article Mike cites.

What have I learned from all this? A great deal. First of all, with a fair amount of certainty I can say that all of our bassets trace their ancestry to a few French imports to England of the ancestors of our modern basset, the Basset Artésien Normand, in the 1870s. It doesn’t matter how different our hounds look today; they all came from the same two or three dogs, who were most likely knuckled over (today a disqualifying fault), weighed maybe 30 pounds (as opposed to 50, 60, or 70) and were a lot higher on leg and lighter in bone than today. The second, equally important observation is that until the early 1950s there was no real distinction between field dogs and show dogs. Today, unfortunately, that is not the case. Anyone with a modicum of knowledge of the breed can distinguish between field and show bassets. Sometime they almost look like two different breeds. (I might add here that there are a few brave souls who try to breed dogs who can hold their own in both field trials and in the show ring!) Third, until the 1950s a large number of bassets were registered as blue-ticked or silver, which attests to the fact that in France more than a hundred years ago the Artesian bassets were occasionally crossed with another French hound breed, the Basset Bleu de Gascogne, a breed which is blue-ticked. Fourth, the 1950s saw a great deal of growth in breeding, with the number of bassets multiplying rapidly during that period. Dams often had three or four litters and, in turn, four or five of the get in each litter were bred. Fifth, with absolute certainty we know that bloodhounds were introduced into the strain not just once in the nineteenth century but again in the twentieth, both times in England. That crossing gave our basset hounds their typical bloodhound-like heads and introduced a heavier bone structure than one would find in the Artesian basset hounds. Sixth, we know that some of the American kennels, especially Carl Smith’s kennel in Ohio in the 1920s, crossbred bassets with beagles and possibly with dachshunds.

 

[Lucy&Ethel]

So for the uneducated....how would I tell a 'show' Basset from a 'field' Basset? (Keep it simple, I'm not familiar with much breed standard terminology!)

 

[dean wickwire]

The general theory is that show bassets are fat, overweight and out of shape. Field bassets are thought to be light weight, leggy and small. There was some truth to both sides. Both the show and field breeders generally breed for one thing only. Now it is more difficult to see the difference between the two.
Y.Lee Coyote at 75 lbs is certainly not a small, leggy basset, but he is a good rabbit hound and a field champion. Many show bassets will readily start running rabbit if given a chance.

 

[Milly and Lily]

Why would someone want their basset or any dog to do only one thing. If the point is to improv and maintain the breed, then why wouldn't a dog compete both in the field and in the ring?
Another novice here, so be gentle.

 

[pinehawk]

i have a second printing issue book by Carl Smith,great reading,photos of some of his and others hounds.if you can find this book get it is well worth the price,i paid $50.00 bucks for mine and it is very good shape.it's title is "Training the Rabbit Hound Bassets and Beagles. by Carl E. Smith it was published by The Hunter-Trader-Trapper Co. of Columbus,Ohio copyright was 1926.there was 3 packs of Bassets at this time in the U.S.one owned by E.T.Tefft and another by G.M.Livingston,both of New York and the third pack was owned by Mr.Smith and his brother George.in his book he says"the basset of today is essentially the smooth-coated Basset de Artois." The Basset-de-Artois is divided into 3 classes,more or less distinct: the crooked-legged(basset a'jambes torses);the half-crooked ( basset a' jambes demi-torses);and the straight legged ( basset a'jambes droites). the first 2 were the slower trailing of the 3 types and showed their bloodhound ancestry more clearly.Mr.Smith's first experience with Basset came 18 years earlier when he acquired some from Russian stock,descendents from earlier importations.he goes on to say that these were very hardy hounds that seemed to be made of Iron and never gave in for cold, rain,sleet,nor any other adverse weather,even the hottest days of summer they would run from their kennels and hunt for game.he also says the the Russian stock was quite long lived his dog "Old Major" lived to be 14 and was killed by a auto.his Sire lived to be 17 and his Dam Dollie M. lived to be 15.he crossed the Russian stock with some Beagles to prevent inbreeding until they acquired their English-French stock.

 

[Mikey T]

"If the point is to improv and maintain the breed, then why wouldn't a dog compete both in the field and in the ring?"


Ideally that would be the case but there are limiting factors. Field trials are not available in all areas of the country. It becomes a matter of time an resources. Chapaigning a dog for a championship can be expensive and time consuming in just one venue never mind two.

Is the short answer to the question which I recieved many years ago on a rather extensive thread in the breed and genetic forum which unfortunately is archived out of existence. The bright side is there is less disparity then the was in the late 80's early 90's and the disparity is much less in bassets than it is in other breed such as labs and even beagles.

the other problem is the tendency to label poorly conformed dogs as either "french" or "Field" when neither is the case. many a poorly conformed dog has been labled as field type or other such nonsences when there has never been a FC in its bloodline, and more than likely hunts worse' than a conformation champion.

 

[Mikey T]

fROM http://www.doginfomat.com/6-1c_scenthounds.htm#bda
BASSET D'ARTOIS
aka Artois Basset
FRANCE: This breed was a region/kennel version of the Basset Artésien Normand that disappeared during WWI.

BASSET ARTESIEN NORMAND
"The man who spearheaded the modern blend was Leon Verrier. In the early years of this century, his hounds dominated the exhibitions, and were the type most sought by the newly formed association for the breed. During the 1920s, his dogs were often referred to as Artois Bassets (Basset d'Artois), despite their double origin. WWI wiped out Ver-rier's kennels, but he continued his influence as a judge and leader. Under his presidency, the name of Basset Artesien Normand was chosen. "

The Basset d'Artois and Basset Artesien Normand are for all intents and purposes the same breed.

 

[Sadeyes]

I know absolutely nothing about this subject but....I also heard that a foxhound is in a bassets make-up somewhere along the line.

 

[Barbara Winters]

Billy,

Thanks for the info-I never knew Smith had written a book. In fact I ordered a 1st edition for 20 bucks.

I was looking up some pedigrees and it seems that Majors father was called "Old Deck" There were some dogs shortly after that who have * and ! next to their name. I wonder if these were the outcrosses? Do they include the name of an outcross in the pedigree?

What's your father's kennel name again Billie?

 

[Guest]

What's an "outcross"?

 

[Milly and Lily]

Thanks MikeyT, for helping me understand that a little better. I guess I will not be so naive after I have done some shows and stuff and can appreciate the time it takes traveling and preparing for them. I am hoping to have Lily in her first ring obedience by late spring to mid summer, just to get our feet wet. The schedule around here starts at the end of this month but she won't even start her ring obedience class until mid March so I am not expecting too much this season.

 

[Mikey T]

"I am hoping to have Lily in her first ring obedience by late spring to mid summer, just to get our feet wet. The schedule around here starts at the end of this month but she won't even start her ring obedience class until mid March so I am not expecting too much this season."

It general takes a year or more to prepare for the novice obedience ring some times more alot more. You may want to look into Rally-obedience. It was add to AKC obedience as a lower level introduction. At the novice level all exercise are done on lead which is not the case for traditional obedience.

If you have specific questions reguarding obedience and/or rally you may want to consider joining BassetHoundObedience Yahoo group
"Bassets in the Obedience ring

Basset Hounds pose some unique challenges for their trainers who want to show them in the obedience ring. This Group provides a forum for those people. It is a place to share training tips and brags, as well as a place to seek advise and help with training problems. Or maybe you just need a shoulder to cry on.

What this list is NOT: this is NOT a list for discussion of basic pet training. Please DO NOT ask the group about house breaking, leash training, chewing, digging, or other behavioral problems that are unrelated to competition obedience.


Basset tracking and Rally Obedience posts/questions/brags are also welcome here. In addition, there is a Basset Rally group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BassetRally/ "

it is not a real active group in terms of posts but you will see some familliar faces.

 

[pinehawk]

Barb,you found a 1st Ed. for 20 bucks!!!! you did real good!!!! this book kind of found me and i was not letting it get away!!! it is not a book that is easy to find or at least i couldn't!! My Father's old Kennel name was "Magjo's" it is now "Baysides".I'm not sure if ! or * is saying if the dog is a outcross? maybe someone else could help.I can't get on the old pedigree sight that i used to get and i even entered enough dogs to get the database!!! Brownie S is a grand daughter to Old Major she was a OUTCROSS of a beagle and a Basset.Oscar and Murphy's Mom i hope that will answer your question,what Mr.Smith did so as not to inbred his dogs at that time was breed a Basset to a Beagle,than when he got some other Basset stock he bred his 50/50 mix back into the Basset this made the pups from this litter 75% basset to 25% Beagle than he bred these pups to Bassets or other Peoples Bassets until the Beagle Blood was diluted to almost nil.Just like when in 1874 or there abouts Sir Everett Millais crossed a Basset with a Bloodhound bitch to get the head and scenting ability back i guess.

 

[Barbara Winters]

I think entering a dog in competition before the dog and the handler is ready can create problems. A dog can learn he can get away with things at an AKC trial because you don't use corrections. A bad experience for me at a Match in pre-novice when the judge told us all we had no business being there made me ring shy for at least a year.

Take a look at an article by Kay Green, Problem Solving Techniques

Good luck in your training.