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Discussion Starter #1
Help. . .I work at a boutique law firm as a paralegal. There are a total of three of us here. I asked my boss if I could bring Mabel to the office while I am here, fulltime. He said YES! However, she has to remain in her kennel. We are kennel training now, so she is getting used to it.
She is 13 weeks. . .So, my question is this. She will be right under my desk, and will be taken out when I need to go get lunch or to the post office. . . But, when she is in her kennel, and I am here at my desk, working, will she cry??! Yes, right. But, how do I gently tell her "no crying"?? I need her to know that although I am right next to her, she needs to remain in her kennel.
As it is now, I put her in her kennel and leave to go to work. She has not been crying when I put her there the last few days, so I think she is getting used to it. However, she is not in there with us home as she is playing etc with us and sleeps on our bed. . .
Advice? Much thanks!
 

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Wow, how nice she can go to work with you!! that's great, and hopefully it can work out.

At that age, would it be possible to take her out for piddle/poo and just for change of scenery every 1-2 hours? she might do better with that. like if you just take her out for 10 min or so.

Also, i would fill a kong (Worm's Kong 'cocktail' has yogurt, peanut butter, and applesauce in it, then we freeze it) and (maybe keep it in the office freezer until you're ready to give it to her?) give it to her as a mid-morning snack in the crate, so she'll have something fun to do. and maybe think about giving her some kind of bone or chew that takes awhile to work on for mid-afternoon.

i think she might cry/whine initially, but hopefully she can get used to the schedule.

i bring Worm with me to meetings that last an hour or two where he has to sit and be quiet. hard for a puppy who wants to explore. so i always bring him something to work on like the kong or bone.

good luck and keep us posted! maybe a pic, too, from work if it works out :)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Wworm. . .I tried a kong w/PB when leaving her, and I come home and it is still in there! Maybe she does not care for PB, or she is just being good in there and sleeps! Ill try your cocktail. Or cream cheese? A nyla bone. . .Ok, Ill get prepped.
Day 1 is slated for tomorrow, we shall see and Ill keep you posted!
 

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Maybe she does not care for PB, or she is just being good in there and sleeps
knowing puppies with no one around it is booring so you might as well sleep

I would spend time having here get use to being in the crate at home while you are around. Give a king in there feed her her meals etc you will have a better idea if she is going to be a problem or not at work that way. You have a long weekend coming up to practice.
 

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you're welcome, Mabel.

ah, if you're not sure she'll like PB and these types of ingredients, you can also fill the Kong with a mix of wet food, meat baby food (mixes well w/kibble), + her dry kibble and freeze it so it will take longer for her to finish it. and adjust her other meals accordingly.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I was afraid of your answer Mikey T!!! I think that training her in there, with our being home, is our best bet. And kongs etc while in there. She does have kennel cups in there now, one with food, one with water, but both are full when we get home. I do toss 15-20 pieces of kibble in there when we are home, for her to go in and get, and come back out, so I know she associates the kennel with food and is ok with it, it is going to be more me, listening to her whine in there, while we are home :(
With any thing, it'll take time. Thanks again for the advice!
 

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it is going to be more me, listening to her whine in there, while we are home
Idealy you want to avoid that. The whole teaching the dog not to whine by ignoring it does not work very well. The dog wines because a need is not beeing met It does not change that fact by ignoring the dog. However if you let the dog out before it whines or as soon as it starts to whine It actual will become more comfortable in the crate sooner and whine less than if you try waiting it out approach.

see The Harmony Programme
The Cure For Attention Seeking Behaviour Disorders

It is so simple – following the “crying baby” model for filling the need as soon as it arises, ASBDs can be entirely avoided as well as cured by giving focussed attention immediately and as soon as the request has been received.

This does not mean one has to put one’s entire life on hold or “run rings around the creature” – it is literally a simple little flash of attention at the right time and when first asked for it; the classic “a stitch in time saves nine” principle.

Rather than “rewarding” attention seeking behaviour, it never gets to escalate, the creature’s energy system remains balanced and the disturbed behaviours never need take place at all.

As the babies who are fed when they are hungry cry markedly less or not at all, creatures who receive attention energy (or love or recognition energy) when they ask for it, their attention seeking behaviours become markedly less frequent, markedly less dramatic and may cease altogether once the system has been in operation for a while and the creature has understood that not only can it get what it needs just the for the asking, but also it’s energy system has become more robust, more healthy, more resilient and won’t collapse when there is a time when attention is in short supply.
I know the new age psycobabble can be of putting but study after study with human children have shown meeting the need of a crying baby immeadately reduces crying vs ignoring the behavior over the long haul.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well, we never let out son "cry it out" - not once. We gave in to what he needed. I am sure Ill do the do the same with Mabel. Ill keep everyone posted. Here is to good luck!
 

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I know the new age psycobabble can be of putting but study after study with human children have shown meeting the need of a crying baby immeadately reduces crying vs ignoring the behavior over the long haul.
Nothing hard and fast here, Mikey. You can quote a study showing one thing, and yet, there will be other studies that show quite the opposite. As we speak, we have friends who let their baby "cry it out" and baby has been sleeping through the night since 5 months of age. They are following a program that has evidence behind it that shows that this type of sleep-training is helpful and effective, both to the babies and their parents.

Our cousins are getting up and attending to their babies whenever they cry. They have not had success with having their baby sleep through the night, even though these babies are older than the one mentioned above. They are much, much more tired than the parents in the first example. And these babies are crying more often in the night than the baby in the first example.

All that to say, there is evidence that supports "crying it out" in babies, and many people in this country and other countries do that. I'm sure there is evidence that you can pull out that supports the opposite. but i want to make sure the other viewpoint is here too.
 

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All that to say, there is evidence that supports "crying it out" in babies, and many people in this country and other countries do that. I'm sure there is evidence that you can pull out that supports the opposite. but i want to make sure the other viewpoint is here too
For Getting Baby to Sleep, Sticking to a Plan Is What Counts
Of the 52 studies examined in the review, 49 showed positive results, with 82 percent of the infants and young children in the studies benefiting significantly.
“The key to this whole thing is parents being consistent,” said the senior author of the review, Dr. Jodi A. Mindell, a psychology professor at Saint Joseph’s University in Philadelphia and chairwoman of the task force organized by the American Academy of Sleep Medicine to assess the techniques.
She added, “They need to pick a plan they can absolutely follow through on.”
Even Dr. Richard Ferber of Children’s Hospital Boston — so strongly linked in the popular imagination with the so-called cry-it-out method that it has come to be known as “Ferberizing” — agreed in an interview that no single approach worked for all children.


...At the tough extreme is the cry-it-out method, formally known as “unmodified extinction,” in which parents are taught to put a child down for bed, close the door and ignore all crying unless the baby is in physical distress. Despite 23 studies showing its remarkable effectiveness, most parents find the technique too emotionally grueling, the task force found.
That is the point I have made over and over again when people recommend extinction as a method of solving unwanted behavior. They Never explain the nature of an "extinct burst" that happens in virtual all cases. Tha is the behavior you are trying to extinct get worse much worse than before before it finally stops. For attention seeking behaviors these are behaviors that the baby or the dogs uses because the parent could not ignore it in the first place, makes it a very poor choice for the average parent.

from the link above
Dr. Ferber, despite his link to the technique, said he rarely used it.
“It’s not a pattern that most parents will do,” he said
But I think you miss the boat when you only focus on the results. there are plenty of techniques that are or can be effective but You ro I would never use because of the harm they can cause and Cry it out happens to be one of them. The objection Pyschologist have to the technique has nothing to do with whether it is effective or not but the harm done by it use. In both physically, with increased stress level in the animal/baby and harm done to the parent/animal/child relationship.. because extinction does not deal with the emotional cause of the problem and strictly the behavior.


When recommending any solution to a behavior problem it is a given there is not only one solution that works nor is it a given that a single solution is 100% effective. But I try to use my experience and weed out those methods that are generally ineffective and extintict is one of thoses methods not because it does not work but simply because it is too hard to actual put into practice. and Also there is fall out from using it as a exclusive means of behavior modification because it does not teach a more appropriate behavior so the dog/child is free to come up with a even more abnoxious behavior and two the stress and abandoment caused by the technique can and often does cause more harm than good. to the overall relationship. For me in order to recoomend or advocate a training /behavior modification the first part must be it minimizes the chance of any harm being done, that is why you will not see me advocating punishment not because it does not work or can't work because clearly that is not the case but the potential for harm is prettty significant especial when compared to other techniques .

That is the problem I have in trying to be brief in eplaining such as Wwormy hooman correctly points out some important info gets left out and the overall concept not completely fleshed out so if a technique does not work exactly as described and a tweek or two is needed and they are always needed the person on the recieving end of the info often does not have a through enough understanding of the concept its limitation and how to tweek it around the edges to make it more usefull for both them and the particular dog.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well,we have been here for 1.15 hours, and we are good! A few whines, a few chews of a bone and we are napping. Soundly. She fits perfect under my desk.
Brought lots of chews, bones, stuffed animals...She is right by my feet, can see and hear me...Wish me luck!
 

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Still snooing. . . Boss can't get over how well it is going. I am getting her up at 1pm EST, 4 hours after being in kennel for a potty/walk/drink break.
Then I leave at 4, so we should be good.
KNOCK ON WOOD!
 

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If everything goes ok it will be a major boon to house training by avoid accidents which reinforce inappropriate behavior.
 

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Congrats on having such a great boss to let you do this. Who knows, if it works out maybe she’ll become the mascot and they’ll always let you bring her into work with you. Every time I’ve thought about working for someone else instead of myself I’ve decided against it because I couldn’t imagine not having Flash with me while I work.

Jen~
 

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Discussion Starter #19
So, we just got back. ..She met other business people, went to the bank and the deli.
Pee/Poop/water/kibble
Back in her kennel . ..Whine, whine for aobut 10 minutes. I put a towel over the side of it so she can not see me (she can see only my feet), she can still hear me and smell me, and Ms. Mabel is sound asleep.
My boss is proud, as am I !!!
 
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