Basset Hounds Forum banner

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
69 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone tried a haltie or "illusion collar" (ceasar millan)?

I've been interested in both. A choke chain really just ... well, chokes them. I've been working on no pulling now that the sun is actually showing itself again (yay!!).

Also, has anyone tried the no pulling - bungee type - leashes?

Sorry, I'm just so full of random questions, lol!

Thanks! :blink:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
127 Posts
I tried a Haltie on our Golden Retriever a long time ago. Took forever to walk him because he was determined to take it off. Gave up shortly after. Just my experience, never tried it on a Basset.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
932 Posts
It doesn't matter really what kind of collar you use - you have to train the dog to heel (yes it can be done with bassets). Usually a chain collar is good for this because used properly it gives an audible correction. The point is to briefly pull and release when the dog is lagging or pulls ahead. Before any of this, get a fanny pack and fill it with tiny, very special treats (bits of hot dog, etc.). Use these initially to help position the dog next to you, and intermittently thereafter. Never underestimate the power of a basset's food drive! They do get the idea eventually, and training is so much better for the dog than contraptions. By the way, the chain collar should only be worn for training sessions and taken off for the rest of the day. Use a regular nylon collar for ID and such. I'm not sure if I explained this very well - There are lots of dog training websites that might make it clearer. Also - a couple sessions with a trainer might be a good idea, as long as they use food rewards. Trust me, nothing else works with bassets..... :) :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
196 Posts
I've never had much success with choke chains (Golden Retrievers or Bassets...yes, all have been obedience trained). I am a big fan of pinch collars. They only look evil.

I only use them when walking the dogs. But, no more pulling, and they all remember their manners.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,943 Posts
Has anyone tried a haltie or "illusion collar" (ceasar millan)?

I've been interested in both. A choke chain really just ... well, chokes them. I've been working on no pulling now that the sun is actually showing itself again (yay!!).[/b]

For many dog halti and/or gentle leaders can be dificult to get use to. It is general best to get the dog aclimated to putting it on and off before actually using it. As with any training aid whether can be useful or not is dependant on the dog and how you use it and to a large extent personal preferrence.

I have use a gentle leader but only in instance I wanted control of the head not for simple leash walking here are a couple of oposing view point on head halters both of which are valid to some extent

THE PROBLEM WITH HEAD HALTERS

A Case for GLs

as mentioned by free range bassets a prong collar can give an added bit of control as conpared to a regular choke chain. Basset in general apear less sensitive in the neck area than many other breed so a little added sensation can be helpful. One caveat I would and however is every dog is an indivual. I have one Touch sensitive hound that goes absolutely nuts with a prong collar. To be most effect both the choke and prong should be worn high on the neck, near the ear. I have allway had a hard time maintaining the collar in that position, many do not, so either collar is not my first choice but they do work well for many

TRAINING WITH THE PRONG COLLAR
A clear eyed look at this controversial training equipment

I do not reccommend a traditional harness for dogs that pull. They are derrived from similar harness made for sled dogs and actually encourage pulling. For pups that I don't want anything on the neck because of potential damage and for all other age dogs for that matter I have always reccommend a Sporn No pull Harness. They now have a [url=http://www.sporn.com/product_info.php?products_id=63]Non-Pulling Mesh Harness which I have not used. I and other have found it very effect in gaining back control so you can train. The major draw back is it can be difficult to put on the dog the first few time until you figure it out.

I have never used one but have heard only good thing about SENSE-ible™ Dog Harness However first reports on any new training device are ussually good as the first to use are those more devoted to the premise it will work so they are more apt to make it work than the average person that pick it up later after hear much" buzz" about it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
I'm sorry if I offend anyone but I think that the use of prong collars or any similar device is totally cruel,even a check chain is not necessary.
I easily walk two Bassets and a Beagle together on normal collars and will continue to do so.
I have no problem with Haltis or harnesses but would never entertain anything that would hurt my hounds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,943 Posts
I'm sorry if I offend anyone but I think that the use of prong collars or any similar device is totally cruel,even a check chain is not necessary.
I easily walk two Bassets and a Beagle together on normal collars and will continue to do so.
I have no problem with Haltis or harnesses but would never entertain anything that would hurt my hounds.[/b]
FWIW a choke chain is more likely to injure than a prong collar which like a martingale collar is limited in how much it can move. A choke chain has no similar restriction. And again any training tool flat buckle collar, tradional harness etc. has the ability to inflict pain it is all in how it is used. Just as in teaching someone to dance on can gentlely guide another with physical touch or they can push and bully them around it is all a matter of degrees and where one cross the line to the other is a matter of the beholder or the one being touched. One when chosing training equipment must keep in mind how it is to be used and if they are
1 capable of using it appropriately
2. comforable with using it
3. is appropriate for that particular dog
the answer will be different of different people, dogs and circumstances.

SELECTING TRAINING EQUIPMENT
 
K

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
FWIW a choke chain is more likely to injure than a prong collar which like a martingale collar is limited in how much it can move. A choke chain has no similar restriction. And again any training tool flat buckle collar, tradional harness etc. has the ability to inflict pain it is all in how it is used. Just as in teaching someone to dance on can gentlely guide another with physical touch or they can push and bully them around it is all a matter of degrees and where one cross the line to the other is a matter of the beholder or the one being touched. One when chosing training equipment must keep in mind how it is to be used and if they are
1 capable of using it appropriately
2. comforable with using it
3. is appropriate for that particular dog
the answer will be different of different people, dogs and circumstances.

SELECTING TRAINING EQUIPMENT[/b]
Very true - but at the point you are using a prong collar you have to wonder if you are heading down the wrong street, the prong collar is physically designed to inflict pain, ie negative reinforcement (as is the choke). But then we are into the realms of "is physical correction ever appropriate" etc... which is a bit of a dog-owners's minefield.

Back to the original question, we've had a lot of good results using Haltis - though it is not for every dog, we have "cured" some "dyed in the wool" pullers - and failed with others. From my own experience, bungees just take some of the strain from the jolt when they lunge but do not help to reduce the pulling behaviour.

3 of our current dogs were pullers, 2 have responded well to the halti - the third has not responded as well, he's better than he was but has some problems (well - lots actually! :rolleyes: ) . Though I have to admit, none of ours are Bassets!


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kerrio
Jackson's Blog.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,943 Posts
Very true - but at the point you are using a prong collar you have to wonder if you are heading down the wrong street, the prong collar is physically designed to inflict pain, ie negative reinforcement (as is the choke). But then we are into the realms of "is physical correction ever appropriate" etc... which is a bit of a dog-owners's minefield.

Jackson's Blog.[/size][/color][/b]
That is where you are mistaken the intent of the collar is not to inflict pain if anything a traditional choke iduces mor pain and injury it is to create more feeling. It intent is to be used with a light touch much lighter than is required with a choke chain.
It is not for all dog or all handlers It very look is what puts most people off they never get to the point of how it actual work and how to use it effectively. if interested in learn more read the link I posted above. FWIW it is by the same author who wrote about the "problem with head halters" which are not without their own set of risks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,943 Posts
edited to add: to say any of the leash training devices does not inflict pain is going to far. when a dog pulls against a restraint regadless of what that restraint is there will be some pain. be it the neck from a collar of any type, the chest if a harness, arm pits if a sporn or the neck again if a head halter. The question of when a sensation cross over to become painfull is very individual indeed. So one must be cautious about claims of not inducing pain.

Whether one choses to use physical corrections or not is a personal choice which will effect the choice in training equipment they use.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
782 Posts
What is a martingale collar and what's its purpose? I ordered a Christmas collar for Francis and it came in the "martingale" style. Since Francis rarely uses a leash I couldn't figure out the action and why I would use it. Thanks
 
K

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
That is where you are mistaken the intent of the collar is not to inflict pain if anything a traditional choke iduces mor pain and injury it is to create more feeling. It intent is to be used with a light touch much lighter than is required with a choke chain.
It is not for all dog or all handlers It very look is what puts most people off they never get to the point of how it actual work and how to use it effectively. if interested in learn more read the link I posted above. FWIW it is by the same author who wrote about the "problem with head halters" which are not without their own set of risks.[/b]
I think we will just have to agree to differ there. I do not believe "prongs" belong on the inside of a collar (or anywhere on a collar for that matter!) - and yes of course they only (theoretically) require a "light touch" - for obvious reasons.

What is a martingale collar and what's its purpose? I ordered a Christmas collar for Francis and it came in the "martingale" style. Since Francis rarely uses a leash I couldn't figure out the action and why I would use it. Thanks[/b]
A martingale collar is a type of "half-check " - it restricts but only to a certain point.
martingales

Very usefuly for narrow headed breeds which slip collars...

What type of collar do people recommend for a Basset?


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kerrio
Jackson's Blog.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
69 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I didn't mean to get everyone arguing. :unsure:

I don't want to continue the arguement but I don't have a problem with pronged collars if used correctly. I had a trainer when I was 9 work with me weekly (I was only allowed to use it with her around) for months until I could use it correctly with my first dog. He would pull me across the neighborhood and I'd come home with welts on my hands. She figured it was a good choice for him - personally. It worked. 13 years later (yes he's still alive - partially deaf and blind), he's still the best dog my parents have ever had.

Anyways, I'm not really considering anything until I have my two evaluated in about a week. We are starting puppy obedience! I'm so excited! I really can't wait to move up the obedience ladder and do tracking or agility or something!! :lol:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
608 Posts
FWIW the SPCA here are calling for prong collars to be made illegal. They consider them to be barbaric. Most training schools in my area do not allow the use of choke chains either. I would not feel comfortable using any of these methods to walk or train Toby. I agree with Kerrio that the dog should be trained to walk to heel using positive reinforcement. (i.e. food)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Hello, never heard of the illusion collar but I do use something called a Canny Collar on my Basset when we are around town and stopping alot, it is slightly different to the halti as it controls the dog from the back of the head instead of under the chin.
He doesnt much like it and it takes alot of getting used to but it saves my bad back when there is alot of distraction around! He soon forgets about it when we are walking around as he is more interested in the attention he gets constantly!!!
You are never alone when you have a Basset Hound!!!!!!! :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,943 Posts
What is a martingale collar and what's its purpose? I ordered a Christmas collar for Francis and it came in the "martingale" style. Since Francis rarely uses a leash I couldn't figure out the action and why I would use it. Thanks[/b]
Martingale sometime called a "greyhound" collar looks like a traditional flat buckle collar but has a limited slip action. It will sinch like a chole chain but only a limited amount unlike a choke chain. For dogs that have necks that are bigger than their head which is the case with many bassets it is one of the only method to keep the dog from backing out of a collar.

for a better discription see How a Martingale Collar Works


This illustration shows how the two loops on a martingale collar work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,902 Posts
One of the problems I've noticed with the Halti-type head harnesses is due to the Basset's head conformation. Bassets don't have well-defined stops, and the strap that goes over the nose tends to slide up under their eyes too easily.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
714 Posts
I use martingale collars with both my hounds, with moderate-to-good results. They generally don't pull me, but they don't really "heel" either. Admittedly, I'm not much of a trainer. I first got one for Dudley, he was nuts when we first got him from rescue, and would slip a regular collar in nothing flat.

My neighbors used a prong collar to train their dog, and she's now really great on the leash. She's a well-behaved, well-adjusted dog, very happy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
162 Posts
All of my dogs are obedience trained and titled and I never ask my dogs to heel when I take them on a walk. Walk's are for their pleasure and pace (meaning really long sniff, fetch, swim, hunt outings). I use martingale collars which I love. It's got the advantage of a little pressure for the occasional obnoxious pulling. I have never used a prong on a Basset, but did on my Lab. Have you ever tryed teaching a 90 lb. mass of muscle to heel? If used correctly they are safer and more effective than any other type of collar and they instill instant respect. They do not inflict pain, they are irritating to the dog. FWIW the neck is the strongest part of a dog's body. I put the prong around my wrist and felt what amounts of pressure felt like. And, unlike Stryker, I don't think it's normal to jump in the North Atlantic Ocean in Jan. In other words, it only hurts if you use it wrong. I also would never use a prong on a soft dog or one that didn't "need" it. I don't believe in TOTALLY positive reinforcement training. Neither do mother dogs. Take care, Belinda.
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top