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Discussion Starter #1
CALIFORNIA Rabies Medical Exemption Bill AB 258 (Molly's Bill) http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/asm/ab_0251-0300/ab_258_bill_20110222_status.html has been referred to the Agriculture Committee. Please contact Committee members (especially Chair Galgiani (916) 319-2017 [email protected] ) and ask that they vote "Ought to Pass."

2011 California Agriculture Committee http://www.assembly.ca.gov/acs/newcomframeset.asp?committee=53

Committee Phone (916) 319-2084


  • Cathleen Galgiani - Chair
(916) 319-2017[email protected]
  • David G. Valadao - Vice Chair
(916) 319-2030[email protected]
  • Bill Berryhill
(916) 319-2026[email protected]
  • Jerry Hill
(916) 319-2019[email protected]
  • Fiona Ma
(916) 319-2012[email protected]
  • Tony Mendoza
(916) 319-2056[email protected]
  • Kristin Olsen
(916) 319-2025[email protected]
  • Henry T. Perea
(916) 319-2031[email protected]
  • Mariko Yamada
(916) 319-2008[email protected]
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Hearing April 6th

CALIFORNIA Rabies Medical Exemption Bill AB 258 Hearing Date April 6 http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/asm/ab_0251-0300/ab_258_bill_20110310_status.html before the Assembly Agriculture Committee. Please contact Committee Chair Cathleen Galgiani (916) 319-2017 [email protected] and ask the committee to vote "ought to pass."

Please attend the hearing if you can and share this message with everyone you know in California, the more California pet owners the committee hears from, the more likely the bill will pass.

PERMISSION GRANTED TO CROSS-POST
 

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I've never heard of a dog having a reaction to a rabies shot.
You should read this thread http://www.basset.net/boards/basset...cine-javma-report-adverse-reactions-dogs.html, which is cross-posted below:

2008 REPORT ON RABIES VACCINE ADVERSE REACTIONS IN DOGS

The Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association published a report in its April 1, 2008 issue, Vol. 232, No. 7, entitled: Postmarketing Surveillance of Rabies Vaccines for Dogs to Evaluate Safety and Efficacy.

Despite the extreme under-reporting of vaccinal adverse reactions, this report states on the second page that between April 1, 2004 and March 31, 2007, the Center for Veterinary Biologics, "nearly 10,000 adverse event reports (all animal species) were received by manufacturers of rabies vaccines..........Approximately 65% of the manufacturer's reports involved dogs."

The report further states on the second page that: "Rabies vaccines are the most common group of biological products identified in adverse event reports received by the CVB," and they give the following description of the adverse reaction followed by the % of dogs affected: Vomiting-28.1%, Facial Swelling-26.3%, Injection Site Swelling or Lump-19.4%, Lethargy-12%, Urticaria-10.1%, Circulatory shock-8.3%, Injection site pain-7.4%, Pruritus-7.4%, Injection site alopecia or hair loss-6.9%, Death-5.5%, Lack of Consciousness-5.5, Diarrhea-4.6%, Hypersensitivity (not specified)-4.6%, Fever-4.1%, Anaphylaxis-2.8%, Ataxia-2.8%, Lameness-2.8%, General signs of pain-2.3%, Hyperactivity-2.3%, Injection site scab or crust-2.3%, Muscle tremor-2.3%, Tachycardia-2.3%, and Thrombocytopenia-2.3%.

Veterinarians are not required by law to report adverse reactions to vaccines, to which the World Small Animal Veterinary Association stated in their 2007 Vaccine Guidelines that there is: "gross under-reporting of vaccine-associated adverse events which impedes knowledge of the ongoing safety of these products," and in an article entitled, A New Approach to Reporting Medication and Device Adverse Effects and Product Problems, (JAMA - June 2, 1993. Vol.269, No.21. p.2785) Dr. David Kessler, former head of the Food & Drug Administration, reported that "only about 1% of serious events are reported to the FDA."

In light of the 10,000 adverse reactions to the rabies vaccine in the JAVMA report, 65% of which were in dogs, the estimated 1% reporting of "serious" events by the former head of the FDA means that the actual number of dogs that had adverse reactions to the vaccine would be more like 650,000 --applying the 5.5% figure given by the CVB resulting in death indicates that 3,750 died over the same 3 year period (1,250 a year or 6,250 over the course of 5 years, or 8,750 over the course of 7 years).

For the number of dogs adversely reacting to the rabies vaccine, Dr. Ronald Schultz of the University of Wisconsin School of Veterinary Medicine states:"A rabies vaccine and vaccination schedule with a seven year DOI will reduce the number of animals that develop adverse reactions following immunization, which is currently estimated to be 1-3% of the population." Time Out: Rabies Researchers Assess New, Long-lasting Vaccine NEWStat, American Animal Hospital Association June 25, 2008 http://newsmanager.commpartners.com/aaha2/issues/2008-06-25/index.html Based on the estimate of "...more than 72 million pet dogs in the U.S." from the American Veterinary Medical Association U.S. Pet Ownership & Demographics Sourcebook (2007 Edition) http://www.avma.org/reference/marketstats/sourcebook.asp, the currently estimate 1-3% of the population adversely reacting to vaccination translates into between 720,000 and 2,160,000 dogs.
 

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I've never heard of a dog having a reaction to a rabies shot.
A friend's senior dog died of a neurological reaction following his rabies shot.
 

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Yes--after many years of having Bassets who got rabies shots, a couple of months ago, Bella had a reaction--huge swelling on one shoulder, right where the shot was administered. It lasted about a week. The vet said it was a reaction. Funny thing was--after many years of having cats also, and having them get vaccinated, the month before my cat got a reaction to a vaccination--not rabies. His seemed more serious--he was not feeling well for a couple of days; needed a steriod shot and some fluids, and lost a lot of hair at the site of the vaccination. I was puzzled about these reactions showing up all of a sudden but our vet felt it was just chance.
 

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I feel that the issue of vaccines is important mainly because it is a public health issue. Generally speaking, the most common reaction to a vaccine is no bad reaction at all. If there is a reaction at all, most of the time they are not life-threatening, though they can certainly be uncomfortable and alarming and animals and people can feel sick for a few days. A small percentage of the time, depending on which vaccine, life-threatening reactions occur, and an even smaller percentage of that, death occurs. This is true of animals as well as people.

Now i grew up in the generation where we were all vaccinated since birth. I'm sure I've accrued at least 2 dozen vaccinations so far. Of all the people I've known in my personal life (and at this point, there's a lot), and most also received these vaccinations too, none of us had life-altering reactions or died as a result (so far-- knock on wood). That being said, I know of a case where a child died after vaccination-- it was an immune system reaction that is very rare. Most people and children's bodies do not react that way to a vaccination. But it was very, very sad. I imagine that family and people who know them would be wary of vaccines after that, understandably so.

Yet one also has to look at the reasons for vaccination or why a vaccine was developed at all. The reason is that there was a lot of morbidity (suffering) and mortality (death) related to the disease. And prevention of the disease is thought to cause less suffering and death, even if there might be some death involved with the prevention. ie. there would be more deaths from rabies if there were no vaccinations at all, than the small percentage of deaths from rabies vaccination.

I bring this to your attention, because it is ok now, when most pets and people are being vaccinated for diseases. The ones who opt out actually benefit from there not being disease around from the ones who are vaccinated. but at some point, if too many opt out, the risk of the disease being spread around goes up. and you're back to square one, with a number of deaths due to the disease. Please remember that for the diseases that have vaccines, these are usually diseases with high rates of suffering and death, and that is why the vaccines were created in the first place.

it's yer choice. but wanted to bring up some of the issues from a public health perspective.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Wworm,

Not sure you understand what this bill would do, have you read the text? This bill will only exempt dogs from the rabies vaccination requirement whose veterinarians have determined that they are too ill to be vaccinated. This bill will not give owners of healthy dogs the option of waiving the required rabies vaccination.
 

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Yes, that is good, and I saw that. It's good that you are working on the vaccine safety issue and also on maybe spacing them out. but I was pointing out that there may be a ceiling on how "safe" a vaccine can get. Vaccines for children have been worked on for decades now and the older ones are probably as safe as they get. despite that, every now and then, you get a child that has a horrible, serious, and even life-threatening reaction to it, even though hundreds of thousands of other children don't-- to the same vaccine.

We keep seeing your posts as they go from state to state, and there is not a lot of info in the posts, just links. I feel it is bringing up the problems w/vaccines so wanted to address that, and not emphasizing enough how vaccines are also helpful.

Just wanted to put some general info out there about vaccines, and emphasize that vaccines are not a black/white issue-- for most dogs and people they are not a serious problem, and they are helpful, certainly from a public health perspective. and wanted to point out that yes, vaccines have been associated with serious health problems and death, in dogs and in people, although rarely. so there is risk involved, as with most things (ie. someone posted recently that their dog died from routine neutering. does that mean we should stop neutering all dogs and cats-- ummm.. probably not). if you ask a lot of providers, they will give you the opinion that the benefits probaby outweigh the risks when it comes to vaccines; but please understand that vaccination is NOT without risk. (public health message of the day...)
 

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if you ask a lot of providers, they will give you the opinion that the benefits probaby outweigh the risks when it comes to vaccines;
It is not a good idea to correlate human vaccines with animal ones there is far less testing done on animal vaccines. especial in the are of immunity. Study after study that routine vaccinations are not needed and the immunity supply by the vaccine far exceed original manufactures recommendation. It is why all the "conterversy" now bec ause it appear the frequent vaccination inparted no health benefits and only risks. If a canine distemper vaccine imparts immunity for 7 years after the age of six months yearly vaccines acomplish nothing but increase the risk of an adverse reaction. It is also the reason for more challenge studies on rabbies and other vaccines that should have been done in the first place. It is al about reducing risk without compromising effectiveness.

In RI the law requires a Rbies vaccine every two years when it is proven that the effectiveness of the vaccine is greater than 3 years in all cases this put an unecessary risk of adverse reaction without any corrisponding public health benefit. That is what is going on with all these vaccine iniatives get the states laws in tune with best medical practices.
 

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(ie. someone posted recently that their dog died from routine neutering. does that mean we should stop neutering all dogs and cats-- ummm.. probably not).
Ummm, well probably yes. Since in the vast majority of cases neutering gives NO health benefits in the case of male dogs and actually increases their chances of developing many health issues. In females it seems to be more of a toss-up, although it is still better in most cases to wait until they are fully mature. Neutering, and even moreso spaying, are major surgeries that are primarily done for the convenience of the owner.

And the OP is not suggesting eliminating vaccination altogether, simply that we are overvaccinating. Prominent experts in the field are suggesting that you only need to give the puppy series, plus a booster within the year, and the dog should be protected for life - the same as people are.
 

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Ummm, well probably yes.

*well, my point is not about neutering, it is that all surgery, vaccines, medications, interventions have risks to them, even life threatening ones.

Since in the vast majority of cases neutering gives NO health benefits in the case of male dogs and actually increases their chances of developing many health issues.

*agreed*

In females it seems to be more of a toss-up, although it is still better in most cases to wait until they are fully mature. Neutering, and even moreso spaying, are major surgeries that are primarily done for the convenience of the owner.

*disagree: people don't necessarily WANT to fork out the hundreds of dollars to do this surgical procedure that is risky to their dog. there are practical considerations why it is done (ie. it is required, not wanting to accidentally impregnate another dog and have an unplanned litter, etc.) with all the dogs you have and showing them, i'm guessing they are intact (have to be for showing). but there certainly are situations where someone is not showing a dog and the benefits of neutering outweigh the risks, talking about benefits overall not benefits to the dog.


And the OP is not suggesting eliminating vaccination altogether, simply that we are overvaccinating. Prominent experts in the field are suggesting that you only need to give the puppy series, plus a booster within the year, and the dog should be protected for life - the same as people are.

**i'm glad you summarized this, which yes, is what the bill is trying to say. the posts keep coming up for every state with little explanation in them, it almost looks like spam. better to have some discussion/explanation about it, otherwise just seems very anti-vaccine**

Mikey-- I correlate w/human vaccine info BECAUSE there is more research in this area than animal vaccine, to highlight the limits as to how safe a vaccine can be...
 
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