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Discussion Starter #1
I was at a Speciality and found it very interesting that the Breeder Judge who owned a son of a dog that was being shown by it's Breeder Judge owner was put up for Best of Breed. Obviously,they know each other. A few years ago I was at the same Speciality where ,again, a Breeder Judge put up another Breeder Judge's dog for Best of Breed and over heard someone ring side say "That figures he owed her a favor." Is it just me or does it seem something is wrong with this. How can that be fair to everyone else who enters. I guess the AKC rules for dog shows doesn't cover that little situation.
 

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The dumb politics in the showring is the main reason I quit the whole thing after about a year. This doesn't surprise me in the least.
 

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I've heard arguments on both sides of this.

Obviously the optics suck. Perhaps the owner of the stud would have been better not to enter under that judge. But once the dog is in front of her, well obviously she likes the dog or she would not have gotten one of his pups. To dump a dog that you think is best because of politics is just as wrong as putting up one you think is unworthy.

There is also the fact that pretty much all the breeder/judges know each other - if you've been in the breed long enough you know who they are too. If they only showed under judges they didn't know, they'd never be able to enter the specialties (which almost always have breeder/judges). OTOH, it might be better to use a handler in such a situation, although if the dog is being campaigned then everyone knows who he is anyways.

As for the comment, it might have been valid or it might have been sour grapes. There's a lot of that.

When I bought a puppy from a breeder judge she specifically asked me never to show him under her, even though there is no rule against it. It would put her in an awkward position - if she dumps him she is saying one of her dogs is not good, if she puts him up she is accused of favoritism.
 

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If I am not mistaken, specialities are run by a breed club. The breed club members vote. i.e. elect the judge for the specialty. So they have direct control over the Judge in the first place. Seems petty to complain about the selection after the fact. Especial since the Judge was known.

Eliminating Judging by people that know each other is impossible. If the Judge does not have enough integraty to put up the best dog why are the breed clubs inviting them to Judge. In something as subjective as conformation there is alway going to be a cry's of politics, the question is I doubt the reality is anything close to the perception. It is a lot easier to blame "politics" for why your dog did not win than to investigate and change a breeding program to improve the stock to match what is actual winning in the ring.

In AHBA because of a lack of judges It is not Infrequent though it is avoided as much as possible in which a dog Judges his own dogs in a cast during a field trial. I can say I have never seen a Judge put up his own dog as a winner unless it was clear and undisputed. I think most Judges in any sport do they same an try and maintain the image of integerity to the point of bias against dogs that they have some sort of relation to.


The problem of the perception I think has a lot to do with how conformation shows are judged. There is little to no feedback to competitors on why the judge made the decision Having some sort of scoring sheet could be very helpful not only busting the politics perception but also in evaluating for a particular breeder where their breeding is weak. Having some sort of point system for the various body parts/areas could go a long way to eliminating percieved biasis of particular judges i.e. he selects heads etc. by not allowing for a single area to predominate as can happen now. This is not to say you can make Conformation objective but it could lead to the appearance of being less subjective and everyone more on the same page.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I would think (for some reason) that a judge (any judge) would like to avoid what may look like an indication of being partial , don't get me wrong, for me, the real fault lies with the exhibitor who should not have entered under someone who owns one of her dogs puppies,which is just my personal opinion. I don't think it is being petty to observe and state the facts. I know as well as anyone how political dog shows can be and unfortunately ,like many ,I still go. Heck, a judge vouched for me when I went to purchase Vinny and I told her I would never show under her with him because I didn't want to put her in an akward position and I think that was dang nice of me. I was just very disappointed to see how that seniaro played out at the Specialty and now I just don't respect either one of those judges,so it is my choice not to show under either one of them.
 

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I just don't respect either one of those judges
That is certainly your right but remember eliminating the best dog because you have some relationship to it is not showing integerty as well. Part of the question needs to be were the dog put up obviously inferior? Would a judge without a relationship be critized for the same decision. I will not deny reputation is part and parcel of what is judges not simply the dog which is unfortunate but I think part of the reason is It is easy to be critizied for choices in a game that is so subjective. Going an a a know and respected breeder of a more unknown quanity is just so much safer. There are some sturtural think I believe that could be done to level the playing field but in the end there will be judge and major shopping etc. I thing far more of the politics and playing the games occurs on the participants side than on the Judging side.


who should not have entered under someone who owns one of her dogs puppies,which is just my personal opinion.
One of the Genetic problem in the sport of pure bred dogs is popular sire syndrome the same happen in kennels as well. If One kennel become well known in a particular breed. There are going to a a host of breeder clamouring to get some of that. This makes it impossible to meet the criteria above. Although having the genetics of on kennel or one dog dominate In a breed is a recipe for disaster.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
For once Mikey I agree with you. The dog that went BOB is one of the top dogs out there ,or rather was, he is being shown as a Veteran. Was he the best that day,I guess so.
 

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See thats the thing there is an argument for either side and I can't say I disagree with either. The thing that I feel and the rules state is that it is better for the exhibitor not to put the judge in that kind of situation in the first place. So as to not allow there be any possibility of favoritism because in that situation when you are the judge you are damned if you do and damned if you don't... if you don't put up that dog and it's what you'd consider best then you are not being fair to the exhibitor and their dog and giving the impression you have no faith in your own breeding program as you have contributed to the genes in that puppy and then on the other hand if you do put the dog up you have everyone saying that you did it simply because you have a prior relationship with the owner. It's better just not to put the judge in the situation to begin with, you know who the judge is going to be well in advance of sending in the entries... the only time I could see it is if there was a judging change and in that event you always have the option of pulling your dog and getting a refund. I don't think it's right to show under a judge who bred your dog or in that matter bred the sire or dam... it's just not right period but then again sometimes too you'd be pigeon holing yourself there as well.

For example my girl Roxie's grandsire is Expo and honestly there are so many Expo kids and grandkids out there that its going to be difficult in years to come to find a dog that isn't related to him. However I happen to love him and his style of basset so everything I have will most likely have a bit of him in it and a bit of my breeders stock as well. I don't think there's anything wrong with it as you'll find a lot of the top producers in many pedigrees but as long as there is always a bit of other lines added in there will still be the diversity that keeps the lines going.
 
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