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Discussion Starter #1
:angry: :angry: :angry:

Oklahoma is quickly becoming one of the most popular sites for puppy mills and, a few months ago, some excellent legislation was written to put a stop to what is becoming a huge problem in the state.

Unfortunately, the bill died today in the state house:

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) - Legislation that would regulate so-called puppy mills has died in a state House subcommittee.

The measure died in the House Agriculture and Commerce Subcommittee on Monday when a motion to pass it failed to receive a second.

The bill was authored by Rep. Lee Denney, a veterinarian from Cushing. She says the legislation was designed to promote animal welfare and consumer protection.

Supporters of the bill say it would target unscrupulous breeders that create the threat of disease spreading to both animals and humans as well as fraudulent practices in the sale of pets.

But opponents say state regulations are unnecessary because many are already licensed by the U.S. Department of Agriculture. They also say state regulations could harm the horse, cattle, hog and poultry industries in the future.[/b]
:angry: :angry: :angry:
 

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Biscuit-I don't know if you've been following my posts in the Politics Forum on whart is going on in Pennsylvania regarding legislation aimed at shutting down the puppymills:

To summarize: sportsmen's groups and some small kennel owners have objected to the pending legislation saying it would hurt them- it looks like the proposals are back on the drawing board- in the meantime, Gov. Rendell who is backing the effort to shut down the mills has stepped up enforcement. I'll keep posting about the Pa. situation as it unfolds, and will post a link to the new proposals when they are put forth-

I would be interested to hear if the fight will continue in Oklahoma past this failed attempt.

In Pa., the fact that the governor wants the mills shut down is a huge help in this battle-
 

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This is very sad news. I've been following the OK bill and had hopes that the legislators would do the right thing. Guess the money from the millers is too much of a temptation.

I get so mad when they use the excuse that the USDA already regulates these mills. What a bunch of bs. A mill might be visited once a year and the USDA doesn't do much beyond write reports.

So many good people in OK are supporting this leglislation - I am sure they will keep trying.
 

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It is very difficult/impossible to craft legislation to regulate puppymills with out having some adverse effect on hobby breaders, and hunting packs. Especial when a lot of the initial legislation is put forth by groups like PETA and HSUS that would like to see all breeding and animal being kept as pets be abolished in the first place. They use such legislation in the guise to regulate puppymills knowing full well it effect much more than just that.
 

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Many of these new regulations are written by people who don't have a clue about hunting dogs, sled dogs or any activity involving dogs. It is very difficult to define the difference between puppy mills and some of the legitimate breeders.
Just because a man has 20 beagles, don't label him a puppy mill. I will admit that the beagles are not pampered, but they are kept in good, clean conditions with adequate food shelter and medical care.
One proposed law from Philadelphia would ban the use of logging chain for use on dogs. No definintion fo logging chain. That was most likely written as a show for the locals.
Another would ban keeping dogs on wire. Most hunting beagles are in kennels with at least partial wire floor. Easier to clean, and the dogs have no problem with wire. the bill was meant to stop puppy mill operations where the cages are stacked and waste can drop down on the lower dog.
Most states already have laws that could be used to control puppy mills, but lack manpower to enforce them. new laws will not help,if they also are not enforced
I would suggest you check the details of these bills before you decide if they are realistic or not. One bill required a run of about 100 sq. foot-- same size for a papillion or an Irish wolf hound. One required a certain amount of shade for the dog, but the shadow of the dog house didn't count. one bill would ban any home medical treatment -- no flea and tick control, no tooth brushing, no pills of any kind.
 

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It is very difficult/impossible to craft legislation to regulate puppymills with out having some adverse effect on hobby breaders, and hunting packs.[/b]
Very true- that's why the proposed legislation is going back to the drawing board in Pa.

Especial when a lot of the initial legislation is put forth by groups like PETA and HSUS that would like to see all breeding and animal being kept as pets be abolished in the first place. They use such legislation in the guise to regulate puppymills knowing full well it effect much more than just that.[/b]
This is not the case with what is going on in Pa.- here in Lancster County (the "Puppymill Capitol of the East Coast") we just have a horrendous problem that we'd like to eliminate. A lot of the folks(like me) supporting new legislation to regulate the puppymills respect the hunting culture here and don't want new legislation to impact sportsmen or small breeders.

Revisons to the original proposals are being worked on now- I'll keep posting in the Politics Forum as this unfolds-
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Then maybe hunters need to get themselves involved in the legislation - and *not* to shut it down.

Look, I'm surrounded by hunters and hunting dogs here. While the rest of you all were running for the subway or whatever this morning, I was greeted by three hunters in an old pickup with hounds in the back passing my place when I walked out to leave for the day.

Everyone here has beagles or coonhounds or (God forbid) *Jack Russell Terriers* ::shudder::, and there's guns going off day and night.

And I have to say, I don't know a hunter who would worry about being confused with this:

[...] Small breeds of dogs and their puppies were removed from filthy conditions; water was black, most of the food was moldy, and over 40 carcasses were found in bags on the property. A freshly dead puppy was being consumed by a rat.

[...]

While the dogs were being removed on Saturday, according to Foster’s granddaughter’s comments, she herself performed caesarian deliveries by, in her own words, “splitting them open.”

Dogs with their midlines sutured together with fishing line were removed from the property. One gray Poodle that had been, ‘split open,’ was found in the trashcan with her intestines out. The birthing area had rolls of fishing line strewn on the floor.

Foster had earlier tried to get rescue leagues to take senior dogs that no longer produced puppies, but on Saturday the dogs she tried to release earlier were gone; rat poison was photographed in many bowls.

The horrors continued: Upon returning to Durant with the dogs, Homeward Bound Shelter Manager Stacy George started the task of cleaning and bathing the dogs. She removed scores of ticks from the area around the eyes of one small Lhasa Apso, however, instead of getting a happy glance, the young dogs’ eyes were gone.

Some dogs have large tumors on their midlines. A terrier had a dead mouse entwined in its’ fur.

Some will have to have surgery from being, “split open,” in butcher style caesarian surgeries.[/b]
And this entire state is becoming infested with it.

I'm no fan of PETA, but this legislation wasn't written by PETA, and we have very real problems here that are getting bigger by the day.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
BTW, I don't mean to bark at you, Dean and Mikey. It's not you all I'm annoyed with.

I just find it incredibly frustrating that such horrific conditions are being allowed to proliferate here, and our state gov't doesn't even bat an eye. Yeesh.
 

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BTW, I don't mean to bark at you, Dean and Mikey. It's not you all I'm annoyed with.

I just find it incredibly frustrating that such horrific conditions are being allowed to proliferate here, and our state gov't doesn't even bat an eye. Yeesh.[/b]

The problem is rarely is legislation the best solution to any problem. While not easy Education of the consumer is IMHO a better route.

The other thing is if it is the condition at the mill that people are concerned about, the deplorable condition all prosecution under animal cruelity laws and don't need to involve any aditional legislation at all only enforcement. As alway an legislation without enforcement is useless hich just goes to show why most legislative means are of themselves useless to solve porblems.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I know that's a trendy opinion these days, but it's untrue. Yes, it's possible to cherry-pick and find examples where legislation has failed, but ...

Do speed limits work? Are speed limits an important way to moderate the behavior of people who feel entirely justified to go 70 mph through residential and school zones?

Should we have legislation and rules governing the behavior of teachers? Should teachers in middle schools be free to form intimate relationships with their 13 and 14 year old charges if the fancy hits them?

Should 11 year olds be free to purchase alcohol and drive without a license?

Etc.?

There isn't a culture or society - or even a known community - on earth where behavior is regulated through whatever legislation that culture or society - or community - employs.
 

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There are situations which exist in the Lancaster county puppymills for which inspectors should be able to issue citations, and can't:

It is perfectly legal here for wire floor crates to be stack on one another with excrement running onto the dogs below. It is perfectly legal for dogs to be confined 24/7 in tiny cages that they can barely stand in. It is perfectly legal for dogs to be confined in tiny cages in sheds that swelter at 100 degrees in summer and freeze below zero in winter. And on and on-

Last month Billy Milko (Pinehawk) and I had a pretty decent exchange on the Politics Forum regarding some of this. Here is the link: http://www.heatherweb.com/cyberhound/board...?showtopic=4876

For those interested, here is a links to the proposed Pa. kennel regulations through the United Against Puppy Mills site: http://unitedagainstpuppymills.org/kregs.html

The UAPM site is also worth a look to give you a better idea of what we're dealing with here:
"In 2006, Pennsylvania licensed 1,653 commercial kennels. The total number of kept dogs for those commercial kennels is 145,236.
Of the 1,653 licensed kennels, 236 are licensed to have greater than 251 breeding dogs each - one such kennel in Lancaster County has over 1,000 breeding dogs."


Gov. Rendell has a personal interest in this issue and is stepping up enforcement- but what happens when he's gone? Enforcement wasn't enough in the past, and it won't be after he's gone.

In my opinion, we need more than enforcement; we need some new legislation. The process so far has been long and difficult, and as I'm writing this the proposals from 2006 are being reworked: here is my most recent post in the Politics Forum: http://www.heatherweb.com/cyberhound/board...?showtopic=5097

All I can say is that we're trying.
 

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Oh, Mikey T, I wish that consumer education could solve the problem but in AMerica cheap and easy seems to win out all the time (i.e witness the debacle created this week by the video of that California slaughterhouse, how many people decided to buy beef within 24 hours of seeing those horrendous images?) A pet shop puppy is so readily available and within the price range of most people and hey! it's just this one puppy...it won't make a difference, right?
The whole situation is just plain tragic all around.
I have to agree with Biscuit on this one. Sometimes we need legislature to spell out exactly what is permissable and what isn't. :(
 
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