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Here we go again,

Micky as the member of this forum with the most amazing number of posts, your responses are treated as 'some grandee of note' it's just a shame & frightening that some important advice is so way off.
Bassets are man made 'achondroplastic' selectively breed, not evolutionary. As a lover of Bassets & Bassetnet one of the main breed forums, loitered for many many months before joining, as I sat here horrified by the large number of posts regarding back & leg problems (with pictures that were referred to as not that bad!) with detrimental advise given in response. When anyone disagrees with you, it's ludicrously made out to be a UK (hot house flowers) versus USA argument as if the hounds were radically different. You dismiss recommendations given by The Kennel Club UK, The Basset Hound Cub, any descent breeder, vets & specialist; as your supposed 'common sense I know better' derides their experience & knowledge. How you look after your pups & dogs is your decision but to give advice time after time on exercise contrary to specialists who promote the well being & understanding of the breed is dangerously misleading. It's alarming that you haven't got the self knowledge to realise that to promote such advice is detrimental to the health & future well being of someone elses' pups.

Supporting your case with links to a dog food company web site just about sums it up.
 

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Um, the "hothouse flowers" comment was made by me, and having been raising champion Bassets for some 20 years and living with them for 35 I do consider myself to be a "decent" breeder and somewhat knowledgeable about the breed. And yes, there is a considerable difference between a hound that will finish out at 80-100 lbs, as I've heard of many European dogs doing, and one that is comparatively fine boned and will finish out at under 50, as many of the pet stock Bassets in this part of the world do. We're talking dogs that have been bred for generations with absolutely no consideration for conformation or soundness, which is why they tend to have such leg problems. When we say "not that bad", we're not talking from a breeder's perspective because yes, those legs are horrible, we're talking from the perspective of a pet owner wondering how this will affect quality of life and whether they should subject their dog to major surgery.

And nobody is suggesting the youngsters should be subjected to intense exercise while still growing, as I have said repeatedly. But we have had people suggesting they shouldn't even go for walks, or play with other dogs, which is just silly.

I raise my pups as I advocate, and they are quite sound, thank you.
 

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Bassets are man made 'achondroplastic'
incorrect
Histopathologic study of long-bone growth plates confirms the basset hound as an osteochondrodysplastic breed
Our study revealed that basset hounds have curved long bones that shorten and bow the thoracic and pelvic limbs. In addition, the metaphyses are wide and the epiphyses irregular. However, the dogs do not have the craniofacial and vertebral alterations that affect achondroplastic humans. For this reason, the basset hound skeleton is not typical of human achondroplasia. Other osteochondrodysplasias, such as hypochondroplasia, pseudoachondroplasia, and metaphyseal dysplasia, do not present craniofacial alterations. We found, by histopathologic analysis, that the abnormalities of the growth plate in the basset hound are similar to those in humans with achondroplasia and mice with experimentally induced achondroplasia (17). However, these histologic findings are also similar to those observed in humans and mice with metaphyseal dysplasia (18). Therefore, the histologic characteristics of the growth plate alone are insufficient to classify the type of osteochondrodysplasia that basset hounds have.
 

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You dismiss recommendations given by The Kennel Club UK, The Basset Hound Cub, any descent breeder, vets & specialist;
As for the KC 5 minute rule yes I dismiss it as to many vet specialist in the UK
The myth of over-exercising puppies...? - Pet Forums Community
‘I don't believe in restricting the exercise of growing dogs to the degree you mentioned. I feel that moderate, relatively controlled exercise is important to increase muscle tone and support joints, such as the hips and elbows, that genetic prone to hip and elbow dysplasia. "Everything in moderation". So free exercise and some jumping or climbing are acceptable, but not excessive exercise like running a marathon.’

Malcolm McKee BVMS MVS DSAO MACVSc MRCVS
RCVS Recognised Specialist in Small Animal Orthopaedics
Willows Referral Service, West Midlands.

2,the Five minute rule Is not a KC basset hound only rule it is for all puppies So to deride any links and support information that I provide that is not breed specific is hypocrytical

3. the five minute rule as posted on this forum is continually misqouted or more specifically truncated and "up to two time a day" is left of. which double the amount of allowed exercise.

that said lets get to the specifics of my problem with the rule. I exercise in not defined . Is that only forced exercise, impact inducing exercise, all manners of play? and when you look you can find people advocated and insisting there interpretation of what is exercise is correct To the point that puppies can no longer act like puppies.

There is no firm scientific bases for the recomendation as I have posted many times before Exercise in Puppies-Are there rules? | The SkeptVet Blog

has links to the actual studies the first on ocd involves 30 affected dog so is tiny and the second while large if one looks at the conclusion see that the have not proven a causual link and the only exercise implicated was the impact exersize of chasing sticks and balls and even the it was only "might" be involved and Oh by the way it was only Labs involved in the study! Where as In these study body condition ie being overweight shown to be a much bigger factor.To the extent that exercise helps maintain a healthy body condition it would be beneficial.

so if some one is looking for expert advice on exercise and puppy I don;t think the can go worng With Chris Zinc a vet and authority on Performance dogs and training http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/documents/PuppyPlay.pdf
Here are the exercise and training guidelines that I use for puppies. They err on the side of being safe
rather than sorry. If you follow these guidelines, you will be more likely to have a healthy dog that is still
enjoying training and competing after the age of 10. A little investment when your pup is young can reap​
dividends for him in his senior years

Rules of play

Toddler/kid puppy (eight weeks
to six months)

Lots of free play, alone and with other dogs (but no body-slamming games).
Moderate free exercise such as short walks, hikes in the woods, etc.
Fun, non-impact training such as Sit, Stay, Come, targeting, low agility contact obstacles.
Early jump training, such as cantering over unevenly spaced poles on the ground.
No jumps above carpus (wrist) height.
No specific strength or endurance training.
Teen puppy (six


to 18 months)

Increasing periods of free exercise.
Continued jump training with jumps heights gradually increasing from carpus to elbow height.
Strength training exercises such as sitting up, fetching on land and water.
Strength/coordination exercises such as backing up, pivoting, crawling.
Puppy at heart (after


18 months) THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO LABRADOR RETRIEVERS. YOU DO NOT DO ANY JUMPING UNTIL THE DOG IS 2!

Daily free exercise.
Jump heights gradually increasing to full height.
Allow dogs to flex their spines in the weave poles.
Daily strength training exercises.
Begin endurance exercises, such as trotting 20 minutes three times a week, swimming
continuously for 10 or more minutes. Increase endurance exercises in proportion to the level of
endurance in the dog's performance event(s).
Chris link, D.VM., Ph.D., award-winning author of


Peak Performance: Coaching the Canine Athlete, has put
over 50 obedience, agility, ret rieving and conformat ion t it les on dogs from three different groups
 

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but to give advice time after time on exercise contrary to specialists who promote the well being & understanding of the breed is dangerously misleading
When thes specialist provide provide no scientific basis for there recomendation which is based strictly antidotal evidence ie "this is the way we have done it for fourty years". I am going to be skeptacle and more so when there is scientific evidence to the contrary. The is no evidence walking cause joint injuries in dog or puppies. In other species of mammals the importance of exercise when immature to promote proper growth is clearly understood limiting non-impact exercise seem very counter productive to me until someone can show some real evidence to the contrary.

I welcome seeing any scientific evidence that walking at a basset pace contributes, creates or even exaserbated any orthopeadic problem related to growth
 

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Ever felt you are banging your head against a BRICK WALL.

"But we have had people suggesting they shouldn't even go for walks, or play with other dogs, which is just silly. "

Do 'we'? And yes, what you suggest would be just silly indeed. What would be definitely be silly however, is to expect any 7 month Basset to do a 4+ mile hike, but hey, if you want (not to the OP) a Basset who enters adulthood on 3 legs, go right ahead. With the acknowledgement that if a Basset is put together right, it 'should' stay right and if it's not from the outset, it won't.:eek:

Getting a tad heated around here isn't it. :rolleyes:
 

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Ever felt you are banging your head against a BRICK WALL
No! never expect to change anyones opinion that has been made up only to provide perspective and a point of view to those that have not


Getting a tad heated around here isn't it. :rolleyes:
should of been here in the good ol days When I was the voice of Moderation. LOL. We regularly lost 50% or more of posters in mass exodus, this thread is drama free,

What would be definitely be silly however, is to expect any 7 month Basset to do a 4+ mile hike
not true at all but it would be silly to expect a 7 month old basset that previously has only done 1 mile to do four. that is the point one does need to be sensible but you can do so and include moderate exercise if it is done in a gradual andstructured way. to say A dog /puppy that has gradually increasing walking distance can not do four miles at age seven months is silly as well,

and I would also put out the BHCA/AKC allow puppies as young as Six months to enter field trials

And For the record I would expect this issue to be contentious because of the lack of evidence on either side. So while I may think you are sadly mistake on this issue I certainly can not prove it and vice versa. It is also why I think it is Important to have these, debates to present both side and let everyone make up their own minds after hearing all the argument for and against. People that have the breeds best interest at hear can and do have varying opinion on specific details on what is best for the breed and it is actual good for the breed to have that diversity.

the point we agree on is limiting high impacted activity until the growth plates are close

any increase in exercise should be done slowly and gradually but on a continious basis

One needs to be cautious about forced exercise

No exercise or type of exercise is totally risk free but then again lack of exercise in not risk free either. It is all about managing and minimizing risk as best you can When the degree and magnatude of the risk are not clearly know there will be dirvese opinions on the best way to manage that risk based on different percieved magnatudes of risk.

When a Basset goes into the Basset flop, it helps to recognise that just maybe he's being asked to do more than he can/should physically be asked to do
that or mental stress flat basset is a sign of stress of on kind or another, agreed

Edit. I was checking at what age a Foxhound is able to start hunting
the hunting style and what is asked for of foxhound and bassets are very different. Foxhound hunt is an impact event which includes much jumping and as such one need to wait until the growth plates close that is not the case with the basset style of hunting. and note that the walking is not limited to a set time but dictated by observation made of the individule hound.

In the end we are probably not that far off in practice just more so in explaination but I do reject a one size fit all solution to anything dog related because nothing works with every dog you must take all factors into consideration and do what you think is best for that individual dog.
 

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Having puppy walked foxhounds, they go back to the pack at about 10-12 months, and then pretty much straight into it, or that was in the "old" days when they were hunting for real!! Not sure about now, I think they plan breeds so the pup has a few months to integrate back into the pack and they're off. :) A foxhound has the natural instinct to hunt and you can't keep them in, they're little so and so's for escaping and going off hunting on their own, even when very small, I've spent countless hours following the bays of an errant pup over the years.

However the confirmation of fox hounds is a little different to Bassets, but I never did understand all the advice whilst researching when we got bella, about nothing but garden until 6 months old etc etc, Bella has run with the farm dogs from being tiny, she's walked miles with us over fields and in the town, and has shown no problems with her build as she's grown. She's a fit, muscular little dog with boundless energy, which is what I would want from any breed.

In response to the OP I'd of made somebody walk behind her just ushering her along when she flat basseted, it worked for getting Bella going when she does it. A young dog should be able to walk 4 miles, we're not talking hell for leather flat out running and jumping here, which does put undue stress on growing and developing bones, but walking!! surely common sense should prevail. IMHO Working dogs with a natural instinct such as the Basset should be worked i.e exercised within moderation. They were bred to track for miles, so walking for miles shouldn't be an issue. I bet if OP's dog had a scent under her nose she'd off been off like the clappers!!
 

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IMHO, Harriet tired easily and did flat basset on walks as a puppy, but now at 3 has energy to spare on walks. Our new dog, Wash, is a year and a half and has less energy than her, and considerably more body mass. I think it just depends on the specific dog.
 

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actually having read these post twice and this is roughly the third or fourth time MT and FM have had this discussion/differance of opinion (since I have been on this forum) I conclude that you are much closer than you think. Both are concerned about the effects of excerise on the development of pups. MT focuses on the individual dog and its physical conditioning ( or excerise program). FM prefers more generalized of breed wide guidelines. Both have merit. Pups excercise should be monitored carefully. In general, jumping should be avoided for about a year. FM guidelines give the new or inexperianced owner s place to start developing a play andexcerise regime. MT reminds us tha t all individual pups are different and excerise and playtime need to reflect that. your both right to a degree and as a voice of moderation I fully expect to have all sides unlod on me. Have fun.
 

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and as a voice of moderation I fully expect to have all sides unlod on me. Have fun.
 

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Whoa - and I came to this place for some quiet relaxation. :confused:

I just have to say we had our 9 month puppy out with the others once when they put up a herd of deer which were in a gully and I'd not spotted. Happily I managed to stop them EXCEPT for the 9 month old who took off giving tongue across the fields after them and was last seen headed towards Cambridge. I took the others home while hubby set off after her. The gamekeeper was coming down the lane, and I managed to stop him and let him know we had a loose one. Okay he said, there's no traps out in that direction.:eek: Hells bells, I was more concerned about him taking a pot shot at her rather than the possibility of traps. Thank heavens, by the time I'd got everybody else home and set off to find hubby, he met me halfway home with Canuck on a lead, 'smiling' as only a Basset can, from ear to ear. She'd obviously had enough and had back-tracked. I feared she'd be lame next morning (she had been started in the ring but .......... ) but not a bit of it. Sound as a bell still - which goes to prove, I think, that if they are built right, they should stay right. But again, I don't normally risk that necessarily being the case.

And that is me done on here, for now. :( :cool: :rolleyes:

(with apologies to the OP for where this thread has gone ..... I bet you are amused!!)
 

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I fully expect to have all sides unlod on me. Have fun.
nah moderation is dull more fun living on the edge. It is likely in practice we are closer than it appears retorhically

and I came to this place for some quiet relaxation
just as an aside A good / worthy sparring partner is going to get a lot of action a poor one isgoing to be looked over.
 

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Moderation is dull and livinig on the edge is more fun. Ya'll were entirly too nice to the voice of reason.:confused: NOt even one flamer responded. But that why I like this site. people may disagree but it is over what is best for the dogs. Not egos. have a nice day and a great weekend with the dogs.:cool:
 

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We pretty much let Maddie set the pace when she was little; we didn't try to take her on long walks, nor let her roughhouse too much, or run herself into exhaustion. She developed severe Pano when several months old though, and her activity was pretty much curtailed a lot of the time after that.
 

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So entertaining. I cannot say anything about puppies but when I got Sissy, my five year old, she had been kept in a back yard her whole life I suppose and never been on a leash. She did have a little wind problem at first but after a couple of weeks she was up to it. She is unable to flop or flat or whatever because I walk her on the outside of Brutus, my bully. I use him as sort of a pace or lead dog. Keeps her from wanting to just stroll and smell the roses, she can do that in my backyard. It is my suspicion that they are just rotten about such things. I'm guessing that if one of these little suckers made the great escape they can sure as heck run all day long!
 
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