[mydawgz]

Daisy has only lost 4 pounds since the vet started her on Hills Perscription diet. She is down to a plump 71.4. She started the diet on March 20th. She is not eating drastically less than she did before, but she is eating healthier for sure. I am following his instructions by giving her 2 cups of dry perscription food and then 2 cans of the perscription wet food. (they are pretty small cans). I give it all to her at one time in the bowl. I put the wet food on top of the dry food. (She is funny, she eats the wet food at night and saves the dry for her breakfast!!)

She gets a few pee treats. but nothing excessive.

Also, She will not exercise. When Benny was alive she would at least walk around the block, but since he is gone, she wont leave the driveway. (she was attacked by a random loose pit bull when we were walking her in the neighborhood when she was a puppy and she has been scared to be by herself ever since.)

Any advice on the diet?

 

[vb3]

I would guess if it is diet only to lose weight it would be similar to people - it will take a long time and maybe not result in much weight loss. The walk part is kind of a bummer - will she fetch or play in the house?

 

[Rusty Stickers Mom]

What food did she put her on? The W/D? Also, replacing part of her food with fresh green beans is good. It has the crunch factor to satisfy her and fill her belly but not alot of calories. Or use the green beans for treats.

 

[Yogi's Mom]

I know a number of people will not agree with me on this but Science Diet food is one of the worst foods on the market. In my opinion it is just as bad as the grocery store foods (dads, cycle, kibbles n bits etc). Take a look at the ingredients and decide if that is something you would eat yourself.
If your vet put Daisy on Science Diet to lose weight, I would not feed it. Most vets don't know very much about nutrition. You can feed her any food you want, just make sure you feed less of it. Same thing goes for Reduced Fat or Lite foods, not necessary to feed them.
It does take time to get the extra weight off dogs, especially if they are not getting any exercise. We usually cut our dogs food back by a quarter cup a week and have them weighed at least every two weeks so we can see how they are doing.
For what you are probably paying for a bag of Science Diet, you can get a really good quality food like Innova, California Natural etc.
Just my two cents.

 

[Houndsong]

Green beans are great for weight loss. Pumpkin is also good, and the dogs love it. It is also good for firming up a loose stool and possibly helps with anal gland expression. All I add is about a tablespoon per meal. It is in short supply because of rot in last year's harvest. I have used sweet potato to the same effect. I think the adivce to feed less and to add green beans if necessary is good. Don't think your dog has to have a big bowl of food, especially if it is getting less exercise. Also, I feed twice a day. Sounds like your dog is doing this anyway by eating the canned first and the dry the next day.

I know nothing about Science Diet. I've fed my dogs 1/2 Canidae (lately) or Biljac (in the past) and 1/2 Purina Dog Chow for at least 10 years. Laugh at Purina if you like but it was one of the few popular dog foods not contaminated by melamine.

 

[hig4s]

I know a number of people will not agree with me on this but Science Diet food is one of the worst foods on the market. In my opinion it is just as bad as the grocery store foods (dads, cycle, kibbles n bits etc). Take a look at the ingredients and decide if that is something you would eat yourself.

I will agree with you.. check out this Dog Food Reviews - Main Index - Powered by ReviewPost

Hills and IAMS like all grocery store brands rate 1 star.. Diamond and their Kirkland brand, and Eukanuba rates 3 starts,, Origen, Wellness, and Blue Buffalo rate 6 stars. Right now I am using Kirkland mixed with Purina One (only because that is what they were being fed before we got them) Once I have then totally on Kirkland I will mix in some Wellness or Blue Buffalo. I can't afford to feed 100% expensive brands that only come in small bags, 15lbs is the largest Blue comes in and it is $30.

 

[mydawgz]

I wish I could get her to move around a little more. Since Benny died, she seems to like to ride in the car a little more for some reason, so the other night I put her in the car and we went to the local pet store. I got her big butt out of the car and grabbed her leash and we walked about 5 feet in the parking lot and she stopped. She planted her feet, sat down and that was the end of it. She would walk back to the car, she would walk around the parking lot a little bit, but no way could I get her to cross from the parking lot to the curb and go in the store. I can't even get her to walk into the vets office from the car.
I will try some other foods like all of you mentioned. I have never heard of giving them green beans... How do I do that? I wonder if she will actually eat a bean?

 

[Rusty Stickers Mom]

Publix sells them in a 1 pound bag in the produce dept. Just take out some of her kibble and replace it with some fresh green beans. They seem to love the crunch factor and they will fill her up but low in calories.

 

[hig4s]

Our last basset, when she was young, would eat anything we would eat. Of course macadamia nuts, grapes, avocados, onions and chocolate are bad for dogs, and tomatoes and garlic not really good either.. so we avoid those..

She loved most fruit, especially bananas. She would eat carrots, sweet peas, and sometimes green beans. She use to like brussel sprouts, but then my wife have her one with cheese sauce on it and after that she wouldn't eat them without.

 

[Mikey T]

I will agree with you.. check out this Dog Food Reviews - Main Index - Powered by ReviewPost

Hills and IAMS like all grocery store brands rate 1 star.. Diamond and their Kirkland brand, and Eukanuba rates 3 starts,, Origen, Wellness, and Blue Buffalo rate 6 stars

A rating based on ingredients lisst are baised because the authors always have a bias against certain ingredient common in so called supermarket brand when infact these so so called "boogie man ingredients" are often superior to the counterpart use in superpremium brands.

i.e. grain free foods use tapioka, or potatoes to provide the need starch to make kibble. These ingredients are actual nutrional inferior to grains like corn, wheat and rice. By products are general a better quality more digestable and superior protein source that muscle meat.

See [URL="http://www.wysong.net/index.php"] The Pet Food Ingredient Game

What Are The Most Healthy Grains, Legumes And Starches?

Separating various grains and legumes and then making claims about superiority is a marketing tactic and has little or nothing to do with good cat and dog nutrition

...If the nutritional value of the ingredients you mentioned are measured, the opposite of what you have been told is true:

Critique Of Internet 'Rate Your Dog Food' List

The "Exotic Ingredients Mean Good Nutrition" Myth

Are By-Products Bad?

From a nutritional as well as ethical standpoint, the benefits of incorporating by-products into pet foods cannot be denied.

The Whole Dog Journal advises pet owners to reject any by-products and instead seek “whole meats.” This demonstrates their lack of understanding of the nutritional merits of the various parts of food animals. Whole Dog and others in the pet food marketplace pushing the "no by-products" claim seem unaware of the fact that “by-product” is a mere word invention. It creates a negative connotation, but has nothing to do with health or nutrition. Pet health and nutrition are not about superficial impressions created by word labels. Feeding just muscle meats to pets is a serious error since no carnivore in the wild eats such a diet.

...For example, chicken viscera is not “human grade,” but carries more nutritional value than a clean white chicken breast. Americans think that chicken feet would not be fit for human consumption, but many far eastern countries relish them. On the other hand, “human grade” beef steaks fed to pets could cause serious nutritional imbalances and disease if fed exclusively. Pet foods that create the superficial perception of quality (no by-products, USDA, human grade, etc.) with the intent of getting pet owners to feed a particular food exclusively is not what pet health is about.

Corn and Soy
Corn and Soy[/url]

Aside from the natural nutrition whole corn and soy provide - essential fatty acids, vitamins, minerals, complex carbohydrates, fiber - they help permit the manufacture of a dry diet. The starch in grains gelatinizes around the meat ingredients shaping the nugget, changing starch to a digestible form, and permitting the meat to be dried into a shelf stable form. Whether corn is used for this purpose or any other grain such as wheat, rice, barley, potato, etc., makes little difference if diets are being rotated as they should be.

Don't be fooled by the various marketing campaigns to demonize certain grains (such as corn) in order to increase the sales of products that do not have the boogeyman ingredients. The pet food market place is highly competitive and it is common for companies to pander to myths about boogeyman ingredients in order to gain sales: "corn is evil; buy my product because it contains not corn." Also, do not assume that these ingredients will cause allergic or sensitivity reactions as commonly believed

It should be noted that is virtually impossible to find any nutritional info on feeding dogs that is not biased. In the case of the articles provided the all come from one source that is also a manufacture of a super premium brand. They also have a bias which I have avoided in the quotes provided, and that bias is raw products are superior to cook products. While that may be true for some ingredient it is not true for all. And any studies sited by the company ast to the superiority of a "raw" diet are of poor quality and the result are in serious dispute as a result. Most of the so called benefits noted in the various studies can be accounted for by the lack of controls. The most famous being the cats feed raw sardines and milk, before it was known the requirement of cats, that is cat only not dog or humans for taurine, and estential fatty acid, which is destroyed by heat. Now all cats food cotain adequit levels of taurine but tht would not be the case in the study cited and this study because taurine is require in a cat diet but not a human nor a dog diet is not translateable. When doing any research on feeding dog food look for the bias first so then you can make reasonable evaluation of the content of the material.

 

[Mikey T]

Any advice on the diet?

The only way to loss weight on a diet is to consume fewer calories. Adding more fiber like green beans, pumpkin or squash and similarly what is done in comercial weight management food subsitute fiber for fat and protein, in an atempt to create weight loss without creating a dog that is hungry all the time.

This may not be productive however of some other methods. Most weight managemnet foods are low on protein. Protein is require to preserve or increase lean muscle mass which inturns increase the metabalic rate. Studies have shown dog have moreand faster wieght loss on high protein - low charbohydrate diets High-Protein Low-Carbohydrate Diets Enhance Weight Loss in Dogs[URL="http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/134/8/2087S#FN1"]1[/url] You will not find many commercial diets that meet the parameters of the study diet. You may be better off with a high protein - low carb diet only found is certain but not all grain feed comercial foods and feed less a lot less. The result will likely be greater and faster food loss, but also a dog that is more likely to try and steal food,

I am following his instructions by giving her 2 cups of dry perscription food and then 2 cans of the perscription wet food.

There is no magical formula as to how much to feed it is always a trial and error experment. If the weight loss is not fast enough feed less, if too fast feed more. Lear to ascess you dogs body condition and not just rely on weight information. Lean muscle mass is heavier than fat. A lean dog can weigh more than a fat dog of basically the same size. weight is not the be all of determining ideal weight.

I put the wet food on top of the dry food. (She is funny, she eats the wet food at night and saves the dry for her breakfast!!)

Good indication that you are feeding too much. I would feed 1/2 as much twice a day as see how that goes. If the dog is leave food after the end of fifteen minutes pick up the bowl and do not feed until the next schedule feeding. If this becomes a normal feed even less. It a rare basset indeed that normal sated that is not overweight

, she wont leave the driveway. (she was attacked by a random loose pit bull when we were walking her in the neighborhood when she was a puppy and she has been scared to be by herself ever since.)

If the attach was local you may be able to over come her objections with a short car ride out of the neighborhood to a dog friendly park or simply walking in a different neighborhood. While she is learly of your neighborhood she may not have the same negative feeling to a different location. Dogs tend to be very good at discrimination and not general as well, So they are more likely than humans to attribute the threat to your particular neighborhood but not others, There are no guarantees however and each dog is an individual.

Fitness In Your Back Yard
Exercise has benefits for dogs too! Some simple ideas for keeping your couch potato in reasonable shape.

It is likely you need to susbscribe to the site to see the article above, there is no charge and you will not get any extra spam as a result. The subscription is a mechanism for the author to control copywrited material

 

[hig4s]

i.e. grain free foods use tapioka, or potatoes to provide the need starch to make kibble. These ingredients are actual nutrional inferior to grains like corn, wheat and rice. By products are general a better quality more digestable and superior protein source that muscle meat.

It should be noted that is virtually impossible to find any nutritional info on feeding dogs that is not biased.

Wheat, especially processed wheat can be an allergen to dogs, why take the chance.

Corn might be nutrutionally better for humans, but I have talked to several vets, looked up information from vets online, talked to top breeders, and to a biologist/chemist in the dog food industry, and there is plenty of information to show that flash fried corn, like in almost all dry dog foods that have corn, is not digestible by a dogs system,, it would be the same as if you tried to eat a corn husk, a cows system can digest it, but yours can't.

Besides that, even sites that don't think corn is bad for dogs, they still say it is not acceptable as a main source of protein for dogs, So whether you believe corn is OK or not, a dogs system is designed to process more meat protein than vegetables, so if any vegetable product is in two or more of the first four ingredients of the food there isn't enough meat protein in the food.


As far as by products, by definition it can be almost anything so you don't know if it is good or bad, again why take a chance. Same reason I won't eat fish imported from China, I don't know whats in it.

 

[hig4s]

The most famous being the cats feed raw sardines and milk, before it was known the requirement of cats, that is cat only not dog or humans for taurine, and estential fatty acid, which is destroyed by heat. Now all cats food cotain adequit levels of taurine but tht would not be the case in the study cited and this study because taurine is require in a cat diet but not a human nor a dog diet is not translateable. When doing any research on feeding dog food look for the bias first so then you can make reasonable evaluation of the content of the material.

I'm not sure I get what you are saying here at all.
Raw sardines would have taurine in them.

Humans and dogs do need taurine but they can produce their own in their pancreas (as do all omnivores or hypocarnivore/humans and mesocarnivore or facultative carnivores/dogs). Cats do not produce their own taurine as they are obligate carnivores or hypercarnivores.

 

[Mikey T]

Raw sardines would have taurine in them.

along with milk cooking with high heat for a proloned time would destroy much of it,

 

[Mikey T]

Wheat, especially processed wheat can be an allergen to dogs, why take the chance.

any and all proteins are potential allergians to dog so are you going to avoid all of them
Food allergies are not common comprising appromately 10 of allergies of dogs However on protein source is not significantly more allergenic than another it is simply the protein source the dog is most exposed to that it intial becomes allergic too, It has been sugested that dogs exposed to a greater variety of proteins are less likily to become allergic to any one
see: Food Allergies and Food Intolerance

Several studies have shown that some ingredients are more likely to cause food allergies than others. In order of the most common offenders in dogs are beef, dairy products, chicken, lamb, fish, chicken eggs, corn, wheat, and soy. As you may have noticed, the most common offenders are the most common ingredients in dog foods. This correlation is not a coincidence. While some proteins might be slightly more antigenic than others, many proteins are similar in form and the incidence of allergic reactions are probably associated with the amount of exposure.

There is a genetic condition which is rare in dogs simmial to cilliac disease in humans, which creates an adverse reaction to wheat gluten, But this is know reason to avoid it. As one would not sugggest that humans avoid bread because it can be harmful to a few of them.
Celiac Disease in Dogs

Dogs with celiac disease cannot tolerate gluten, a protein present in wheat, barley and rye. Eating those grains causes an abnormal immune response that attacks the small intestine. Irish Setters are the only breed known have to true celiac disease,[/url]

there is plenty of information to show that flash fried corn, like in almost all dry dog foods that have corn, is not digestible by a dogs system,, it would be the same as if you tried to eat a corn husk, a cows system can digest it, but yours can't

Love to see the scientific studies, I doubt they exist because the ones I find say just the opposite the cooking and extrusion process of makeing dog food makes corn highly digestable for dogs.


The Use of Sorghum and Corn as Alternatives to Rice in Dog Foods

Isn't corn hard for dogs to digest?

Only if you are talking about raw corn. The ingredient corn meal is already cooked and is not only highly palatable, but also over 60% of the naturally occurring fat in corn is linoleic acid aka Omega-6 Essential Fatty Acid.

Below we provide the science that tangibly proves corn is a highly digestible grain. Beware of the 'facts' that some pet food company 'experts' are putting out to mislead consumers. Corn is at the center of a rivalry in the pet food industry unethically being fought with marketing strategies and not science.

A nutritionist will not accept opinion or theory as fact and neither should you. Don't allow yourself to be misled by advertising or intentional extremism you may hear from friends or see online.

see the chart on digestability at the end of the study provided in the article.

So whether you believe corn is OK or not, a dogs system is designed to process more meat protein than vegetables, so if any vegetable product is in two or more of the first four ingredients of the food there isn't enough meat protein in the food

First of while there are studies that show plant based protein is less digestable than animal based protein most of these studies are seriously flawed. That is it is well known and proven fiber reduces digestability. Animal based protein contains no fiber while plant based protein does, Fiber can easly cause a 10% difference in digestability. So using digestability numbers for animal based protein when it is then incorporated into a higher fiber food is not going to yeild the same result, the protein digestability will be reduced.

Corn gluten meal

Case, et al. (1990) reported that when fed to puppies, the nutrient availability of CGM was superior to poultry by-product meal. In general terms, protein digestibility of CGM in dogs is high (avg. 88%; Yamka, et al., 2004). Relative to other studies, this ranks CGM even with poultry meal and better than soybean meal. Recent work in the dog has tried to determine if an animal-based protein is better than or different from vegetable proteins. Corn gluten meal is often the reference vegetable protein used in these studies.

The problem is many authors take studies the feed exclusively on vegetable protein only. Vegetable proteins are typical have fewer EFA than meat based proteins so they must be combine with other Protein sources to reach a blanced profile. That is feeding only one vegetable protein is not good but a proper mix can be.

conclusions about protein composition from an ingredient list is imbossible because essential information is lacking like the actual precentage of the ingredient on a dry matter basis. While the ingredient list ranks the quanity of an ingredient with out know excatly how much it is not very helpful. Is the first ingredient 5% of the total or 90% there is no way of knowing. So a dog food with a single meat meal listed as the first ingredient can be signifcantly meat based even if the next four or five ingredients are plant matter but it also can be Significantly plant based there is simply know way of know by looking at the label and those that say they can are trying to fool not only themselves. Also even if the exacts percentages ,were know not all corn, etc is the same. see Corn hybrid affects in vitro and in vivo measures of nutrient digestibility in dogs So again nutrional quality can not be determined,

As far as by products, by definition it can be almost anything

Not true there is a specific definintion under AAFCO (The Association of American Feed Control Officials)

Chicken By-Product Meal - consists of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered chicken, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs and intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidable in good processing practice.
...Meat By-Products - the non rendered, clean parts, other than meat, derived from slaughtered mammals. It includes, but is not limited to, lungs, spleen, kidneys, brain, livers, blood, bone, partially defatted low-temperature fatty tissue and stomachs and intestines freed of their contents. It does not include hair, horns, teeth and hooves.
...Poultry By-Product Meal - consists of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered poultry, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs, intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidably in good processing practices

most sites contain factual erronious material when dealing with by-products.