Discouraging Undesireable Behavior"Punishment can have unexpected results... An example: I used negative punishment [i.e. ignore the dog) with Amber a while back... The thing to remember: if you punish one behavior *another behavior will take its place*. Amber was being very "nosey". When she wants someone to pet her, she will very persistently nudge the person's hand with her nose... to the point that it does become a bit obnoxious!
I decided that this really was getting to be a nuisance... so I completely ignored her... She is a smart dog, and she quickly realized that I was not going along with her... I was not petting her as I was "supposed" to... so she offered another behavior... She raked me with her front claws! Ouch!!! That got a reaction! So I realized: If I want to eliminate one behavior, I'd better have another *better* behavior in mind!
It is a lot easier to train the dog to do what you want them to do than it is to train them *not to do* something. Make sense? "
"Something else this makes me think of. I must say I have a different take on the notion of negative punishments. To begin with I don't call them that and think the semantics of them is a problem because of the attitude it creates. I do not want to take anything away from the dog as a punishment so that they will decrease the chance of the behavior happening. I Reward the dog. Just not with the Reward they would prefer
If for example the dog is jumping and nipping for attention I reward the Behavior. BUT I reward it with something like me going away. "Yippie, you win! I bet I know what you would like! Your Reward is my disappearance." I know that it is semantics on one level but on another level it is really a completely different methodology.
...If my attitude remains that I am having a great time and even better if I am acting like I think that the Undesired Reward is what the dog wants I am not setting up a conflict. But I am motivating the dog to reexamine its choices. I am encouraging the dog to try and educate me as to the best thing to do. And when the dog figures out that biting and nipping me is the stupidest way to get me to play they will look for a better way. And when they think that the reward I offer is not worth the effort it weakens the probability of that behavior continuing to be offered.
If a good friend wants to get you to go golfing every weekend and you hate golf you could tell them how boring it is and keep debating the point forever.
Or you could enthusiastically head to the course wearing the most outrageous outfit you can put together at Goodwill. Hit the ball in the opposite direction because it is so much fun watching everyone's expression (besides you were never much of a conformist) Talk constantly. Hug them and scream with joy at every stroke they make and express your amazement at their skills. Then tell them what a wonderful time you have golfing with them and can't wait to do it again. I bet your friend won't be available for another round for months."
" '“She was attention seeking all the time' ...
It is extraordinary to me just how we have come to that. Where did this come from? Who was the first to think it was a good idea to leave a child crying for hours in the dark and expect this to be “good for them”?
At least now (in the last 30 years or so, to put it in perspective, and by all means not in all Western parent’s thoughts) it is held to be the right thing to feed a baby when it is crying and as soon as possible because:
the baby doesn’t cry because it is naughty or evil but because it is using a feedback device that is programmed in to alert the care takers of a shortfall of food supplies;
a baby fed immediately has a better immune system, less sleep disturbances, even more intelligence (!) as umpteen scientific studies now decree;
the caretakers of a baby that is fed immediately experience massively less stress, less psychological disorders and less psychosomatic disease because the baby is easier to satisfy and cries markedly less overall.
...It is so simple – following the “crying baby” model for filling the need as soon as it arises, all Attention Seeking behavior Disorders can be entirely avoided as well as cured by giving focussed attention immediately and as soon as the request has been received.
This does not mean one has to put one’s entire life on hold or “run rings around the creature” – it is literally a simple little flash of attention at the right time and when first asked for it; the classic “a stitch in time saves nine” principle.
Rather than “rewarding” attention seeking behavior, it never gets to escalate"
Of course not all the techniques can be used together it is a matter of selecting the one that is right for you. from "Puppy Mouthing" link above
"Insights Into Puppy Mouthing
Since your dog's clear intention is to get your attention then yelling "no" does little beyond reinforcing his behavior. He wants your attention, he nips you, you give attention. Worked perfectly. Keep doing it. If it stops working do it harder or bigger.
And about the yelping out in pain technique. I hate when people suggest this as if it is the Holy Grail of stopping mouthing. It totally depends on why the dog is nipping, how you yelp and how they respond to the yelping. With some dogs this idea alone can stop nipping and play biting in its tracks. But as you have discovered there are other dogs who are simply more triggered by the response. And you actually escalate the intensity of the behavior.
We can't ever just say if a dog is doing X behavior that a handler should always do Y handling technique. It just never is that black and white.
Its all about probabilities. If a dog does X behavior and the response is Y technique than we can often say there is a high probability of a particular response happening with most dogs. There are some fundamental things that are very high probability that apply to many dogs that do nothing or get a completely opposite response from other dogs. ...
90% of the time if I clearly define something for owners and ask what their dog will likely do, they have a wonderfully detailed knowledge of what their dog will probably do. But most people don't look at the perimeters objectively or with clarity and worse they fall into a pattern of waiting until the dog has done the thing they don't want that they knew was probably going to happen. They then respond to what the dog did even though they could have predicted the Undesired response a week ahead of time. "