[cshull]

I just became aware of the fact that there are a number of basset breeds.

But, let me back up a bit. We got "Lily" from an Amish breeder (it wasn't a puppy mill) in March/07. She doesn't have quite the "droopiness" or quite as long ears of a typical basset. Though her front legs are "dwarfed", are somewhat "inward" at the knee with heavy paws pointing outward in common basset fashion, they are not excessively so. Her hind legs are straight, trim and well formed and more "beagle" like (though not as angled backward).

Yesterday, I saw some pictures of some Artesian Norman Bassets. They looked exactly like Lily. Every physical trait deviation from the typical basset hound was there.

My question is this. Does anyone have any particular experience with or insight into Artesian Norman Bassets? (Other than what I can find Googling - I've done plenty of that). I'm just wondering if anyone in this forum has first hand experience.

I did read - traits of the older breed, Artesian Norman Basset, can sometimes be apparent in poorly bred basset hounds.

Thanks, Conrad

 

[Yogi's Mom]

Here is a link for some posts that were made on the forum awhile back. Lily is beautiful!

cyberhound

 

[Betsy Iole]

, Yogi's Mom--you'd think I'd remember that thread!

There are a handful of Basset Artesien Normand breeders in the US. However, unless a dog is sold specifically as such, it is not one; it's a poorly bred Basset Hound. That doesn't mean it isn't a wonderful pet, however--it's just not a candidate for future breeding.

 

[Corky]

Basset Artesien Normand

i found this old thread. does anyone know of a breeder of true "Basset Artesien Normand" in the USA? i was contacted by someone looking for one. not my breed of choice, I'm still a "Bleu Basset" people.

 

[Soundtrack]

Have you tried the ARBA? UKC doesn't seem to have them.

 

[Mikey T]

I DO NOT Believe there is a current active breeder in the us. If they are truly interested they are going to have to inport here is the face book page for the Artesian Normand club in France https://www.facebook.com/bassetartesiennormand.club

 

[Corky]

thanks

I have put out feelers in Europe, waiting to see what comes back. interesting breed, body style much like my Bleu's, I've seen tri colored bassets that are used mainly for hunting, more leg and straight feet, but are "American bassets"

 

[TeazelsMum]

I just became aware of the fact that there are a number of basset breeds.
My question is this. Does anyone have any particular experience with or insight into Artesian Norman Bassets? (Other than what I can find Googling - I've done plenty of that). I'm just wondering if anyone in this forum has first hand experience.
I did read - traits of the older breed, Artesian Norman Basset, can sometimes be apparent in poorly bred basset hounds.

First off, I urge you, if you can find a copy, to get hold of George Johnston's The Basset Hound which covers all the many varieties of the Basset, most of them to be found in France. In the UK, a number of Artesian Normans were imported for outcross blood in the early 1950s, probably the most of note being the stallion hound Ulema De Barly who became extremely important in the UK. Imported by Miss Keevil (Grims) and by Sans Souci De Bourceville x Querelle De Barly, whelped in 1946. She was lucky to get her hands on him as the breed was 'in a precarious position in France after the War'. She also bought a tricolour bitch Cornemuse De Blendeques (1946) Sometimes seen in old pedigrees as Ulema Cornemuse. She also purchase another tricolour dog on a second visit to France, Aiglon Des Mariettes (1951) 'All three imports had come from old-established breeders in northern France, the traditional home of the Artois Norman breed' (all quotes from George Johnson's book). Ulema is back of a huge number of the Grims hounds and although far 'drier' and more on the leg than is seen today, was a significantly influential and popular stud dog. He took the 'plod' out of the UK Bassets of the day, making them into a far more workmanlike animal. Aiglon wasn't as successful although his litter mates were, in France/on the Continent. Cornemuse 'a lovely hound with well corkscrewed ears' couldn't have the immediate effect the two males had on British hounds, but she did produce some notable winners. Again Grims hounds - and again quoted from George Johnson

Bearing in mind many Grims and Walhamptons were exported to N.America early on, the influence of Ulema and the other ANs will be there, in the background, still.

In Europe there are separate classes for the Artesian Norman, which is why, I believe, to a great degree hounds in countries like Holland especially (and with recent Dutch imports into the country, the UK too now) have gone the other way - big, heavy, and carrying perhaps too much skin and wrinkle (to say nothing of weight - often confused by the novice as fat when it should be 'substance').

There is a difference however between the true AN, and poorly bred example of the traditional Basset.

Keep searching - there's a lot of information out there about all the 'Basset breeds'.

Here is Ulema De Barly .....

​

 

[Corky]

interesting

" There is a difference however between the true AN, and poorly bred example of the traditional Basset."

could maybe be taken 2 ways..... the "American style basset" as i call them, are "poorly bred" or the AN are poorly bred. I believe the author refered to the other bassets as "poorly bred"

that's why i like my Bleu's, lighter framed and straighter legs and feet

 

[Soundtrack]

There are various names given to poorly bred bassets to explain why they don't conform to the expected standard. I've heard them referred to as "field", "old fashioned", "English", "French", "American"......even "Artesien Normand", even though they are not ANs, just poorly bred Basset Hounds. Artesien Normands were the basis for the Basset Hound breed, but they are now a separate and distinct breed just as American Cockers and English Cockers are now separate and distinct breeds even though the English Cocker was the foundation for the American Cocker. So "poorly bred" would be referring to Basset Hounds that resemble Artesien Normands but are not. Just as a Bichon FRise that looks more like a Poodle, or a Shih Tzu that looks more like a Lhasa Apso would also be poorly bred.

 

[3kbasset]

I thought (mistakenly I now think) that blue bassets referred to the coloring only vs actual structural differences (ie straighter legs)

or am I confusing two separate terms??

 

[Corky]

sorry, but going sideways on topic

the Basset BLEU de Gasgogne, is a color, and a different body confirmation. (bleu is French spelling) "Basset" refers to dogs less than 15 inch at shoulder.

sometimes you hear of BLUE bassets, when they are referring to a "washed out" color, or sometimes refered to as "mousey" colored.

some beed assoc. have color standards for the breed, and anything not "colored" per standard is not registerable. ie. a "redtick" color or "tri color" from a "bluetick" litter. I believe the "Basset Hound" breed allows for any true hound color, but the AHBA does not allow for a "blue or Bleutick" color, but alows hounds with ticking. it's a show judges decision, or interpretation.

sorry, but this is one of my favorite forum discusions, maybe should move to a new thread.

 

[shakespeare]

No such thing as a blue Basset Hound- and if anybody tries to promote one - walk away! It's a genetic fault and usually has a host of health problems with it - especially skin problems.But the Bleu de Gasgogne is a specific breed - originating in France with the most of the old scent hounds. Personally I LOVE the Grande Bleu de Gasgogne - there are a few breeders here and when we move to the country I'm getting one!

 

[3kbasset]

got it.

The regional basset rescue had a blue a while back and she did have skin issues.

Have seen what was worded as "a rare blue basset" advertised for sale by a breeder and I remember from this forum that would not be anything a reputable breeder would say.

This is a very informative thread....has got me doing more research!!

 

[Soundtrack]

"Blue" does turn up occasionally in Basset Hounds, as do things like long hair and blue eyes. That in itself doesn't necessarily mean that the dog is not well bred, genetics is a funny thing and stuff pops up from time to time in even the best litters. However, responsible breeders do not deliberately breed for these traits, nor do they promote them as desireable or "rare".

"Blue" is basically a grey colour which is a dilution of the normal black. But the "bleu/blue" that you find on the Bleu de Gascogne and on heavily ticked Basset Hounds is actually an illusion caused by the intermingling of white and black hairs.

 

[Mikey T]

" but the AHBA does not allow for a "blue or Bleutick" color, but alows hounds with ticking. "


that is not correct AHBA has no color restrictions however it is open only to "basset Hounds" the breed the Bleu de Gascongne is a different breed and therefore ineligible as would be a artesian normand, PBGV and all the other different basset breeds,

 

[Mikey T]

it often does not show up well in photos rheegs the beagle was a blue

 

[TeazelsMum]

" There is a difference however between the true AN, and poorly bred example of the traditional Basset."

could maybe be taken 2 ways..... the "American style basset" as i call them, are "poorly bred" or the AN are poorly bred. I believe the author refered to the other bassets as "poorly bred"

that's why i like my Bleu's, lighter framed and straighter legs and feet

I disagree that my quote here can be taken any other way than I've written. And further, although they should all be the same, there's no doubt that there are visual differences between an American-bred (not style) Basset and a European-bred Basset. Heads tend to differ for starters. And further, although things have done a switch round, years ago the American bred Basset used to be low to the ground and much heavier than it's English-bred counterpart who tended to be more on the leg, and lighter framed. It's gone the other way, big time in recent decades with the American breeder tending to favour a rather less heavy animal with less furnishings than what's happened over here, mainly with the introduction of the Dutch bloodlines (which actually originated from UK Bassets!!). They went for a heavier hound, based on the old Beacontree and then Akerwood hounds.

In the UK, we also have poorly bred Bassets, showing many of the faults seen in poorly bred American-bred Bassets! Breeding the Basset has always been a 'challenge' and probably always will be and it's also hard to reach a concensus, even with a Breed Standard!!

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/breed/standard.aspx?id=1116 (UK)
To compare - the Basset Breed Standard (UK) https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/breed/standard.aspx?id=1003

 

[Mikey T]

also hard to reach a concensus, even with a Breed Standard!!

IMHO part of the reason bread standard read a they do is to create ambiguity it is through this ambiguity that breed diversity is maintained