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Discussion Starter #1
OK, we kinda got off topic in the tri-color preference thread, so I thought I'd bring my questions on the topic of agility events to it's own thread:

Mikey, you're right, why would I travel 7 1/2 hours to see your bassets perform for 1 or 2 minutes. So, thanks for posting the videos but I'd still like to see for myself in person. I found an AKC event scheduled right in my own backyard in a few months. So I was thinking I could check it out to see if any bassets compete and if not, well, I'd just enjoy watching any breed work.
Sep 4, 2010
Berks County Dog Training Club

Event Number: 2010014304
Event Status: Approved
Agility (Indoors)
Opening Date: Jul 20, 2010 08:00:00 AM

Closing Date: Aug 17, 2010 06:00:00 PM
Just like in field/hunt trails, I found out there are different organizations who run events and have differences in rules, etc. So here's my question. What is the difference between AKC agility trials and USDAA? I'm pretty sure I would not have the drive to train a basset to do agility. I'm leaning more toward tapping into their natural instinct to hunt with field/hunt trials. But while I am bassetless, I would like to attend different types of events to stay connected to my four legged friends. AND I am wondering, what is the difference between the two organizations agility events.​
 

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Roxanne Harris from NJ use to compete in AKC in that area along with her husband but I think the are doing more CPE and TDAA which allows her older dog to jump lower. You can check on the bassetagility yahoo group to see if anyone will be there I do believe you have to join to post. There are a bunch of USDAA Events in your area as well but no Bassets competing

USDAA is the oldest sanctioning venue and AKC is the largest
In general USDAA has more classes in which the dog must qualify to earn a "champion Title" Course times in USDAA ar shorter for the same length course. There some turns and manuevers that are not allowed in AKC but are fairly common in USDAA by this I don't mean AKC ristrcts how one can handle the dog rather these would be a required manuever based on the course design a turn greater than 270 such as a treadles

AKC reward consistency (double Q require] USDAA emphysis excellence (Super Q, tournament classes) in which one must actual beat other dogs not just "beat the Course" USDAA is closer to International Style courses than AKC. That said there are more similarities than differences

for more specifics
Jump height requirements run higher in usdaa. The standard jump height cutoffs are as such 12 and shorter jump 12" 16 inches and shorter jump 16" usdaa whereas in AKC 11" and shorter 8", 14" and Shorter 12" and 18" and shorter 16" . Each org has a second division which allows the dogs to jump (1) height class lower, they get extra time 3 second in USDAA and 5 second in AKC. In USDAA the performance class eliminates spread jumps (double and triple jump) in AKC preferred dog jump double and triples. In USDAA the performance class can earn equivelent titles of the "championship" division, and LAA (life time achievement points) count toward title regardless of division the points are earned. In AKC there is no "champion" title yet (recently approved supposedly will be retroactivly applied but does not begin until 2013) The size of the contacts in USDAA are smaller 36" for teeter and Dogwalk vs 42" in AKC. AKC recently eliminated the judging of the Up Contact on the dog walk and never judge the up on the A-frame or tetter. In USDAA both the up side and downside contacts are Judged. Also USDAA gives the judges bigger lattitude in judging, That is contact, what constitutes "incidental contact and therefore a fault, refusal (stoping on the way to an object) akc rule of third USDAA broad discrestion on whether to dog was approaching the obstacle. AKC is also more restrictive in ringside rules, Dogs must be on leash entering and leaving the ring, USDAA they must be "under control" this can be verbal control. AKC allows dogs to run with collars USDAA dog can on have collars. In any venue most basset handlers make use of the special division that allow the dog to jump a lower height.



The Standard course times in AKC are longer( dogs can be slower and still qualify) they also 5 seconds to the course time for the table count. Course tend to be tigher (spacing between obstacles closer and more turns of 90 to 180 degrees). Only recently have the allowed turns greater than 180 degresss up to but not exceeding 270. USDAA is more international style course {anything goes} there are no limits on turns, treadles are allowe,d pull the dog between obstacle is fairly common. Championship title in AKC involves only 2 class standard and Jumper with weaves, Whith emphysis on consistancy 20 double Q (a qualifying score in each class on the same day) Usdaa has 5 classes Standard, Jumpers ( no weaves) Relay , Snooker and Gamblers, along with 3 tournament classes Grand prix, Steeple chase and Dam (dog agility Masters) team tournament. So USDAA requires a more well rounded dog to be succesful. Also In theory A "champion" title in AKC Agility is one of a few champion titles in AKC where it is not a requirement that you ever actual beat, outperform another dog to win. In USDAA a Master's Snooker title (a requirement for a "Champion title} requires 3 Super Q which means you must place in the top 15% of the jump height ( beat other dogs) Also the "champion" title requires at least 2 Steeplechase legs and while steeple chase does not specifical require a dog to beat another to qualify qualifying is not based on a standard course time but rather on the performance of the best dogs. That is 1.25 of the time plus faults of the average of the top three dog in the jump height. Also two Dam team Legs which qualify once was top 50% of teams competeing but has change to the withen 25% of the average of the top three scoring teams. (ie most have at least 75% of the points of the average of the top three teams)


USDAA offers tournament class (those putting on a trial do not have to offer any tournament classes however most offer at least one or two) in which any dog regarless of level and compete. That is a novice dogs compete against master dogs. Such a tournament classes realy do not exist in AKC. In tournament classes speed is even more emphysized. In tournsment class the dog/handlers either directly compete ie. not Standard course time. qualify based on the performance against other dog/handlers or in the case of grand prix the standrd course time is even shorter than master level.

In general AKC is populated by a larger percentage of individuals that are interested in the title not necessarily the sport, because all scoring is against the course standard there is much more whining and complaining to the judge about course design etc. In USDAA those that compete mostly in AKC say the environment is much more "competetive" for some if not most that is a negative. in USDAA course Times are shorter more emphysis is on being exceptional rather than being consistent There is a bigger diversity of callenges in USDAA turns not allowed in AKC are routine in USDAA, distance skill require for gamblers is not required in AKC, Obstacle avoidence and handler skills, make up own course etc. required for snooker not required in AKC. Cost per run general cheaper in USDAA. USDAA also requires more atheletism and speed from the dog. In terms of skill level required in major Agility venus in the US I would rank USDAA first and AKC second. venues like Nadac, ASCA CPE, Dogna, TDAA rank lower on the scale. There is quite a bit of cross over as well many dogs/handlers routinely compete in both venues. USDAA is open to all dogs. AKC only recently (this year) allowed mix breeds to compete but the club putting on the trial can still exclude them if they choose.

AKC has add a couple of new classes that are optional [not required for a champion title nor are those puting on the event required to include) one the is similar to Gamblers and a another starting in about a year similar to steeplechase.


Mariah at 9 year needs 1 standard leg and 4 gambler legs for her APD (accomplished performance dog) title which is the performance division "champion" title. That is why we are only doing those 2 classes. Given our distance skill and our current Q rate in the gamblers class it is anticipate she should eanr than title at age 40 if she lives that long. She is bronze in jumpers, relay and snooker and has her Accomplished tournament title as well. IN AKC she has only ever competed Once. that was at the basset Nationals in gettysburg is 2003 She q'd in both novice classes basical in a time ~ 1/2 of the standard course time for each. This was the last AKC course I have done so i do not have alot of recent first hand knowledge of changes in AKC course design etc. Mariah is the only basset currently competing at the masters level in USDAA and one of only 5 to ever do so. The has been On Basset that earned a MACH title in AKC and quite a large number competing at the Excellent (AKC master's equivelent) leve in the perferred division. There is in general at least one or more bassets with an "champion" title in the other sanction bodies USDAA is the only one in which a basset does not have a "Championship" IMHO this speaks to the rigors of USDAA compared to the other, Other however will say it is more about USDAA even though they were the first venue to offer a lower height division, has not done as much as other venues in accomidating, aternative breed into the sport. Because of this it is less attractive to many handler/owners so much fewer compete hence less success. This view is certainly has credibility as well. The number of basset even earning a leg in USDAA is pale as compared to AKC
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the info and links to research events in my area. Hmmmmmmm......Basset Nationals in Gettsburg, I wonder if that event is still going!

Hats off to you for having the patience/persistance to train a basset to run an agility course.

Best wishes to Mariah as she continues to work towards a clean run!

Keep the event pictures/videos coming, they are so neat! Ears flowing, jowls flapping, eyes sparkling, tails wagging!
 

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bhca national occur each year but they location travels across the country on a central, east, central,west repeating pattern, This year is Wisconsin, Next Year is back in the east but I not sure where, but I believe the 2007 east nations were at Gettysburg as well.
BHCA web site click on national for current and past events. well recent past back to 2002


That all depends on the basset. Mariah I did very little training. She was adopted in Sept 2002 at one year of age by Sept 2003 she had her novice title in USDAA
She was taught over the winter in FL by her owner my mother I taught her her contact obstacle in April andMay and she was trial in June, This is not typical she was taught in a small yard on small equipment hence she has no distance skill which our problem in gamblers.

Keep the event pictures/videos coming
Unfortunately video camera broke over a year ago.
 
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