[MerlinAndTheGang]

Merlin just turned a year old and have his scheduled to be neutered soon. This is important because we were told that his behaviour could improve after that. We intended to do regardless.

Lately Merlin had gotten increasingly more possessive of his food. Now we did switch foods because he didn't seem overly interested in his previous food, this one he seems to love which is great.

The cats love it too. Particularly Loki.

Now we were using an auto feeder but after a couple of months I decided that it wasn't a good fit and we went back to regular bowl feedings at the same times.

He's been possessive of really tasty treats and so we make sure to limit those to when we know that he can be left alone. However Loki just haunts the poor guy.

I've been locking the cat away from Merlin during meals and he seems a bit more relaxed unless you walk near him or talk to him, then he panic eats his food and gets super tense.

This behaviour isn't new, it's just slowly been building despite working with a trainer.

Tonight I was in the kitchen making a snack and gave him one too so he could take his meds (he hurt his leg over the weekend and it's an old ACL injury flaring up) and I stepped towards him and he lunged at me growling. I yelled "hey" in a low growl and he immediately backed off his food and seemed startled. The cat was loose and I thought maybe he thought I was the cat behind him.

Regardless, I am spooked. He's my dog, he's bonded strongly to me and seems to only ever listen to me. I can take anything out of his mouth and hand feed him without issues. My husband and daughter cannot, despite my efforts to encourage it and show them, they just aren't wanting to.

I play the take it/leave it game with him which he gets. Although he's very stubborn, sensitive and bad the energy of a lab, I wonder if we should switch back to the food he hated because he was less possessive.

I know I'm probably doing something wrong here. I do my best to make sure he's left alone when eating, I do want to be able to stand near him (our home isn't that large) and be able to remove his dish, food or him, if the need arises.

I'm just not confident suddenly. He's generally such a good dog.

 

[MomosMum]

Have you considered having him 'chemically castrated' rather than putting him through surgery? Castration should never be used in place of training. I happen to believe the mild Basset isn't normally a good candidate for castration as it tends to make them too soft, along with the other things to do with a castrated male. If you use chemical castration it would probably show you whether having him fully castrated is going to stop what's going on with him.

 

[MerlinAndTheGang]

I personally would prefer to have a mild basset to be honest. He's quite snoofy and has a high pret drive. Even the trainer said it's not guaranteed to mellow him out. I don't want an intact male, especially because we live in a neighborhood with other dogs and a pack of wild dogs and coyotes, which he can smell when one is in heat and it stresses him out. I don't want the added health risks that come with an intact dog either.
Anyway. I'm definitely not counting on the neuter fixing the issue, I am hoping it will be apart of the bigger picture that will help the situation and I'm most definitely am not using it instead of training.

 

[Mikey T]

this is important because we were told that his behavior could improve after that.

complete and utter nonsense studies on this indicate just the opposite, only behavior improved nuetering are sex chromosome like marking. Humping which one might thing is sex related is not it is an FAP (fixed action pattern), an innate behavior in all dog regardless of sex hormone status though it is most prevalent in in season females. behavior tied to fear like aggression are all worse in neutered dogs.

I don't want the added health risks that come with an intact dog either.

added health risks are on the side of nuetering

https://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

On balance, it appears that no compelling case can be made for neutering most male dogs, especially immature male dogs, in order to prevent future health problems. The number of health problems associated with neutering may exceed the associated health benefits in most cases

https://caninesports.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/CSP-Gonadectomy-Rethinking.pdf

Spayed and neutered dogs have a significantly higher prevalence of CCL rupture (3–7), even when controlling for body size.(3) • In a study of 759 male and female Golden Retrievers neutered or spayed before 6 months of age, the incidences of CCL rupture were 5 and 8 percent for males and females, respectively, compared to no CCL rupture diagnosed in intact dogs.(8) • Dogs that were neutered at least 6 months prior to a diagnosis of hip dysplasia were 1.5 times more likely to develop hip dysplasia than sexually intact dogs.(9) • Spayed/neutered dogs had 3.1 times higher incidence of patellar luxation.(10) • Neutering Labrador Retrievers and Golden Retrievers before 6 months of age increased the incidence of one or more joint disorders by 2x and 4 to 5x, respectively.(11) • In a study of 1170 German Shepherd Dogs, followed through 8 years of age, 21% of neutered males and 16% of spayed females were diagnosed with one or more joint disorders compared with 7% of intact males and 5% of intact females (12).

given the complex orthopedic relationship of bone growth in dwarf breed the increased developmental problems are worse an more severe with early spay in nueter (that is before mature and complete growth plate closure approximately 2 years of age)

I personally would prefer to have a mild basset to be honest.

Your best chance is with an intact dogs. Nuetered dogs tend to be more fearful and hyper in comparison,
from link above :"Significantly more behavioral problems were seen in spayed and neutered bitches and dogs, with fearful behavior being most common in spayed bitches and aggression in neutered dogs.(30,31) • In a prospective study, German Shepherd Dogs spayed between 5-10 months of age had significantly increased reactivity.(32) " ...A recent study of more than 13,500 dogs showed no association between gonadectomy and aggression of dogs towards familiar people and other dogs. However, there was a significant increase in the odds of moderate or severe aggression toward strangers for dogs gonadectomized at 7 to 12 months of age.(33)

I know I'm probably doing something wrong here. I do my best to make sure he's left alone when eating,

that will prevent the behavior for occurring but does nothing to solve the issues that occur when you have to remove food etc which will only get worse over time

What you are dealing with is called resource guarding. It is a normal adaptive behavior of dogs. That is a dog that can retain possession of valuable resources is more likely to survive . Normal however does not mean appropriate. or expectable. Have you trained Bite inhibition? if not unfortunately it is not likely possible at his current age. A dog with bite inhibition is much more likely to have successful behavior modification because you can train more and with different people to generalize the behavior, where it is too risky to do if there risk of the dog causing harm when it bites Resources guarders tend to guard multiple resources not just one like food, individuals, sleeping spots, toys etc, Many are also touch sensitive. The best resource on dealing with resource guarding is Mine! A Practical Guide to Resource Guarding in Dogs: Jean Donaldson: 9780970562944: Amazon.com: Books

Allowing the cat near the dog in the presence of food at this time is only going to exacerbate situations and negate training once you get the dog acclimated to you and the rest of the family around the food bowl then you can add the cat to the mix

Dog Food Bowl Training PDF

when preparing food or family

ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- Table Manners

Susan Garret will call it "hot Zone Game"

Bite inhibition

Changing food

Is a Resistant Dog a Stubborn Dog? #39

What do we do when our dog shows resistance? What happens when your dog appears to be stubborn, and what does that tell you? You might even see resistance in...

youtu.be

 

[MerlinAndTheGang]

We definitely are keeping the cat away during meal times until things are better.

He doesn't seem to be this way with anything but the food right now.

There seems to be opinions in favour on both sides in regards to having him neutered. I went to school to be vet tech and the science as well as what I read is in favour of it. I definitely didn't come here to debate it and I'll be respectful of your stance on it and I appreciate the information you shared. Regardless if the behaviour improves or not, both our vet team, and us agreed it's what is best for him.

We have done bite inhibition training with him, as well as worked a lot of leaving things dropped on the floor, etc.

 

[Mikey T]

because we live in a neighborhood with other dogs and a pack of wild dogs and coyotes, which he can smell when one is in heat and it stresses him out.

you are creating a problem in your mind that does not exist actual. Live with 4 intact males this is not an issue, If the were in the same household with intact bitches perhaps and then the solution is to spay the females because the Health issues and benefits are more balanced for them

not sure how you are playing any take it/Leave it game but any came that involves exchanging what you have for what the dog has you want to make sure the dog does not know what you have. If that is the case the dog is judging what the best resource is. So at time if you do not have the better resource the dog does not swap and time dog gets something in real life you may not have anything readily available to exchange. What I tend to do is exchange and give the article the dog had back as well. Creating the expectation in the dog if I ask the dog for something They get to keep what they have and something else so they are willing to to give up what they have. also with leaving thing on the floor most people train a command for the dog to ignore it which is of limited effectiveness, because you can not be supervising the dog 24/7 you want to create a dog that does not pick up the item without having to be told not to. See video at end. You may already be doing this sort of thing with your trainer, I don't know so my response is geared more to what i see with typical owner facing this issue which may or may not apply to you specifically.

You may find the rest of the family more willing to play tug with the dog This provide a good way training release to a human as well. It works on the premack principle

Episode 190: Using Daily Quickies To Fast Track Your Dog Training And Grow Your Dog’s Skills

Try Daily Quickie dog training sessions to achieve far more in less time and improve behavior.

dogsthat.com

Episode 89: Why Dogs Should Not Tug: The Truth Revealed

Reasons why dogs should not play with tug toys, plus how to enjoy tugging safely and the benefits.

dogsthat.com

Episode 95: How Playing with Your Dog Like a Puppy Can Reduce Fear

Why the way you play with your dog can help reduce fear, create confidence, and grow love of touch.

dogsthat.com

Gimmie Dat Tug! The Out Release ... It's Just Dog Training

Tips on how to teach your dog to release a tug toy on cue.

susangarrettdogagility.com

and dealing with food in general with a dog with food aggression often need to start with learn who has control of the resource and the dog need to relinquish trying to get access to be able to gain control. and is a fundamental game for all dog training

 

[Mikey T]

. I went to school to be vet tech and the science as well as what I read is in favour of it.

that is likely because of the difference in time of most recent research which only goes back 10-15 years and is more comprehensive,. earlier researchers especial on the behavior side. Most of the early research was not unbiased rather searching for reason to advocate for the procedure to combat a pet overpopulation problem that no longer exists in CA or USA because of their successful propagandizing the issue. This can be seem in the mammary cancer studies using relative risk rather than actual risk to make the risk seem much higher than it actually is. Population-based incidence of mammary tumours in some dog breeds - PubMed from https://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf "shows that the relative risk (odds ratio) that a female will develop mammary cancer compared to the risk in intact females is dependent on how many estrus cycles she experiences: # of estrus cycles before spay Odds Ratio None 0.005 1 0.08 2 or more 0.26 Intact 1.00 The same data when categorized differently showed that the relative risk (odds ratio) that females will develop mammary cancer compared to the risk in intact females indicated that: Age at Spaying Odds Ratio ≤ 29 months 0.06 ≥ 30 months 0.40 (not statistically significant at the P<0.05 level) Intact 1.00 Please note that these are RELATIVE risks. This study has been referenced elsewhere many times but the results have often been misrepresented as absolute risks. " That is assume the risk of mammary tumor in an intact dog is 100% which is not even close, in high risks breed it is in the neighborhood of 33% and low risk between 5-10% There was actual no research into the negative effect until the last 10-15 years and the evidence keeps mounting just as we would not advocate nueter boys (humans) at before puberty for health reasons. I realize I am not going to change your "Opinion" when the facts are clear but present the evidence and facts for other that are currently or in the future may read it.

Aggression toward Familiar People, Strangers, and Conspecifics in Gonadectomized and Intact Dogs

Gonadectomy is widely used to treat and prevent behavior problems including the aggressive behavior of dogs. The aim of this study was to determine whether aggressive behavior toward familiar people, strangers, or other dogs was significantly different in dogs gonadectomized at various ages vs...

www.frontiersin.org

https://www.frontiersin.org/files/Articles/548304/fvets-07-00388-HTML-r1/image_m/fvets-07-00388-t001.jpg

Does Spaying and Neutering Affect Behavioral Disorders in Dogs? - WSAVA 2017 Congress - VIN

www.vin.com

Influence of Gonadectomy on Canine Behavior

Veterinarians are expected to advise the owners if and when their dog’s gonadectomy should be performed and let them know if this might affect their animal’s behavior. Unfortunately, due to the lack of unequivocal scientific evidence, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effects of neutering on undesirable behaviours in dogs

"Resource guarding is highly represented in neutered dogs in comparison to intact dogs (Reisner et al., 2007); however, it was neutered males who were more likely to be implicated in human-directed growling and resource guarding rather than females "

https://naiaonline.org/uploads/WhitePapers/SNBehaviorFarhoodyZink.pdf

https://openventio.org/Volume2-Issue1/The-Social-Behaviour-of-Neutered-Male-Dogs-Compared-to-Intact-Dogs-Canis-Lupus-Familiaris-Video-Analyses-Questionnaires-and-Case-Studies-VMOJ-2-113.pdf

https://avmajournals.avma.org/view/journals/javma/aop/javma.22.08.0382/javma.22.08.0382.xml

"Owners provided valid surveys for 6,018 dogs, including 1,056 sexually intact, 1,672 castrated, and 58 vasectomized male dogs and 792 sexually intact, 2,281 spayed, and 159 female dogs that had undergone ovary-sparing spay. Longer exposure to gonadal hormones, regardless of reproductive status, was associated with reduced odds of general health problems and both problematic and nuisance behaviors. "

Alternatives to traditional spay and neuter – evolving best practices in dog sterilization

Standard spay and neuter surgery can have negative impacts on a dog’s health. Take a look at some of the alternative options.

ivcjournal.com

This area of study is relatively new, but the research indicates that gonadectomy confers a mixture of benefits and adverse effects, depending on age at neutering, breed and sex.7 Eliminating sex hormones has the positive effect of reducing mammary, ovarian and testicular cancers, pyometra, perineal and inguinal hernias, prostatitis, benign prostatic hyperplasia, prostatic cysts and squamous metaplasia of the prostate. Intact dogs have a higher incidence of infectious disease and sterilized dogs have higher cancer rates, with the latter often reported as having longer lifespans.8 On the other hand, gonadectomized dogs have been reported to have a higher incidence of obesity, urinary incontinence, urinary calculi, atopic dermatitis, autoimmune hemolytic anemia, hypoadrenocorticism, diabetes mellitus, hypothyroidism, immune-mediated thrombocytopenia, inflammatory bowel disease, hip dysplasia, cranial cruciate ligament rupture, aggressive and fearful behavior, cognitive dysfunction syndrome, prostate adenocarcinoma and transitional cell adenocarcinoma.6,9-12 Musculoskeletal issues may be especially significant for large breed dogs gonadectomized before they have finished growing, as bone physeal closure is delayed.

A significant contributor to the negative health impacts of removing the gonads in dogs is that the natural hormone feedback mechanisms become unregulated. Normally, the pituitary gland releases luteinizing hormone (LH), which then stimulates the production of steroid hormones from the gonads. Without the gonads, there is no feedback signal to reduce production so LH concentrations remain very high for the remainder of the dog’s life. Receptors for LH are present in the urinary tract, skin, thyroid, blood vessels, ligaments, bone, synovium, immune cells and brain.12 Elevated LH concentrations resulting in activation of these receptors may predispose gonadectomized dogs to developing the health problems listed previously.

A dog's life

Behavioural problems in male dogs may be affected by how early in their life they are desexed, with the study raising questions about whether there should be routine desexing of male dogs at all, according to a new study by University of Sydney experts.

www.sydney.edu.au

"The current findings present a paradox. Desexing may reduce the numbers of unwanted dogs at large. But it may also increase the likelihood of problem behaviours that reduce the appeal of the desexed dogs and make them more vulnerable to being surrendered.

We want to be very clear that this is not to say that messages about desexing have been wrong. Rather, they need to be considered as part of a complex decision-making process that takes multiple factors into account."

 

[MerlinAndTheGang]

While I appreciate the amount of effort and passion you have put into presenting this information, I've already stated that his desexing is not up for debate. This isn't a matter of changing my opinion or not and it's offensive to assume I've done no research at all on any of this.

I am new here, this is my first post and to have your opinion essentially jammed down my throat is really frustrating to experience.

So. Thank you for sharing your opinions and information on desexing. I will continue to consult my team of vets regarding it.

 

[MomosMum]

Again! "Have you considered having him 'chemically castrated' rather than putting him through surgery?"

If you do this, it might give youi some idea of whether (or NOT) castration is going to give you what you hope for.

We had to have two of ouir oldies castrated for medical need - which is the only reason I'd go for castration. And I regretted having to have it done because yes, they went soft, lost all their zip (however small a Basset ever has zip!), grew heavier coats and always the tendency to put on too much weight.

Just to add - even castrated males can be affected by being around bitches in season. Some will even mount, and tie with a cooperative bitch. So again, don't look on castration as being a cure-all. You might be disappointed. Also unless your vets have a lot of Basset clients, or breed them themselves, I'd always tend to take the advice of a knowledgeable breeder, over a vet.

Sounds to me that he's resource guarding which isn't unknown in a pack hound.

 

[MerlinAndTheGang]

Our vet is a basset owner, so I'm not overly concerned about them not knowing about the breed.

I find it very sad that people are hung up on the castration rather than the food agression, especially after I've made it pretty obvious of our choice in the matter.

 

[MomosMum]

Our vet is a basset owner, so I'm not overly concerned about them not knowing about the breed.

I find it very sad that people are hung up on the castration rather than the food agression, especially after I've made it pretty obvious of our choice in the matter.

1. Well it's good that your vet has a basset. I wonder for how long, and how many he's had Both Mikey and I have been 'with Basset' for many years.
2. If you think people are 'hung up' on castration, castrating a dog is final (and involves surgery with a general anaesthetic/recovery). Food/resourse guarding should be able to be sorted out - probably without going to castration which may or may not work in that regard.

 

[Mikey T]

": it's offensive to assume I've done no research at all on any of this. " You make the naïve assumption that we are only addressing you when answering the question. the nature of these post is they persist so others with similar problem can get the answers they seek without ever having to ask. The very fact that you expect desexing might help is pretty strong evidence of a lack of understanding of recent research on the effects of desexing on behavior or you are getting back advice from your "team" . All the evidence suggests desexing if it has an effect will only make the problem worse if it has an effect at all. There is absolutely nothing to support your original claim " This is important because we were told that his behaviour could improve after that. " no it is important because it will not help and could make it worse.

 

[MerlinAndTheGang]

It's super sad that my words are being so grossly misinterpreted. I hope that anyone who reads this thread can see that. Just because I said it "could" help doesn't mean I was banking on it fixing the issue.

I have done the research and weighed the risk/benefits and the way you are addressing me is insulting, despite my repeated polite responses to the forceful way you are presenting your argument.

Whether we desex our dog or not at this stage is beside the point. I came here I guess hoping as a basset forum to have an open discussion about my dogs food agression and all I got was ripped apart for making, what I consider, an informed choice. If that makes me naive in your opinion than that is your problem and not mine. You know nothing about me except for what I have shared here.

Whether you agree with our choice or not is really a moot point.

I accepted and thanked you for sharing your information and asked you to stop bringing up the desexing in order to talk about the food agression because that was the purpose of my post.

I have chosen to leave the forum and this entire page after just this short time because I cannot be in a place that is so unbelievably close minded, rude and disrespectful towards someone who is new.

I won't be responding to any other replies and I hope that future people with similar struggles find the help they are looking for.

 

[Lesleyg]

Merlin just turned a year old and have his scheduled to be neutered soon. This is important because we were told that his behaviour could improve after that. We intended to do regardless.

Lately Merlin had gotten increasingly more possessive of his food. Now we did switch foods because he didn't seem overly interested in his previous food, this one he seems to love which is great.

The cats love it too. Particularly Loki.

Now we were using an auto feeder but after a couple of months I decided that it wasn't a good fit and we went back to regular bowl feedings at the same times.

He's been possessive of really tasty treats and so we make sure to limit those to when we know that he can be left alone. However Loki just haunts the poor guy.

I've been locking the cat away from Merlin during meals and he seems a bit more relaxed unless you walk near him or talk to him, then he panic eats his food and gets super tense.

This behaviour isn't new, it's just slowly been building despite working with a trainer.

Tonight I was in the kitchen making a snack and gave him one too so he could take his meds (he hurt his leg over the weekend and it's an old ACL injury flaring up) and I stepped towards him and he lunged at me growling. I yelled "hey" in a low growl and he immediately backed off his food and seemed startled. The cat was loose and I thought maybe he thought I was the cat behind him.

Regardless, I am spooked. He's my dog, he's bonded strongly to me and seems to only ever listen to me. I can take anything out of his mouth and hand feed him without issues. My husband and daughter cannot, despite my efforts to encourage it and show them, they just aren't wanting to.

I play the take it/leave it game with him which he gets. Although he's very stubborn, sensitive and bad the energy of a lab, I wonder if we should switch back to the food he hated because he was less possessive.

I know I'm probably doing something wrong here. I do my best to make sure he's left alone when eating, I do want to be able to stand near him (our home isn't that large) and be able to remove his dish, food or him, if the need arises.

I'm just not confident suddenly. He's generally such a good dog.
[/QUOTE

Seems like people are focusing on neutering and not responding to food aggression. I had a male Bassett who was eight years old. I knew he had some food assertiveness, but I never realized how it could turn so quickly. One morning I needed to move his treat ball that he was playing with and when I bumped it, he went after me. Growling snarling, and he bit me in the hand and in the stomach. I didn’t get hysterical but I did reprimand him, and he seemed to understand. However, two months later he had vomited and I was trying to pick it up and he came after me again growling snarling he bit me in the thigh, and then he went after my other dog, and took him right down to the ground, and I thought he was going to kill him. I consulted three vets and a trainer, and all of them told me that it would be almost impossible to guarantee this would not happen again. I made the incredibly difficult Decision to put him down. I miss him every day. Every single day. But there is nothing that will ever take away the terror I felt when he was lurching at me, growling with teeth bared

 

[Mikey T]

Seems like people are focusing on neutering and not responding to food aggression.

almost Every link provided deals with food aggression but I can't make the OP take advice they do not want to hear and is counter to they're biases and cognitive intuition. It is just that thinking neutering is some how a miracle cure is delusional and counter productive when all evidence is at best will do nothing and at worse make the problem worse. One can legitimately question the OP motivation to correct the situation when they want to continue on a course of action that can not help but has the very real possibility of making it worse . The OP was focused and preoccupation on the question of whether it better to nueter or not and excluding the links and videos dealing exclusively with behavior modification for resource guarding,

From earlier post.,

What you are dealing with is called resource guarding. It is a normal adaptive behavior of dogs. That is a dog that can retain possession of valuable resources is more likely to survive . Normal however does not mean appropriate. or expectable. Have you trained Bite inhibition? if not unfortunately it is not likely possible at his current age. A dog with bite inhibition is much more likely to have successful behavior modification because you can train more and with different people to generalize the behavior, where it is too risky to do if there risk of the dog causing harm when it bites Resources guarders tend to guard multiple resources not just one like food, individuals, sleeping spots, toys etc, Many are also touch sensitive. The best resource on dealing with resource guarding is Mine! A Practical Guide to Resource Guarding in Dogs: Jean Donaldson: 9780970562944: Amazon.com: Books

Allowing the cat near the dog in the presence of food at this time is only going to exacerbate situations and negate training once you get the dog acclimated to you and the rest of the family around the food bowl then you can add the cat to the mix

Dog Food Bowl Training PDF

when preparing food or family

ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- Table Manners

Susan Garret will call it "hot Zone Game"

Bite inhibition

Changing food

Is a Resistant Dog a Stubborn Dog? #39

What do we do when our dog shows resistance? What happens when your dog appears to be stubborn, and what does that tell you? You might even see resistance in...

youtu.be

Has she/ gotten the book which provide much more detail and nuance than can possible be accomplished in a small forum post, implemented food bowl exercise. Incorporated the rest of the family in the training and focus in on why she can not get buy in from them, reevaluated how and why she is training "leave it and or taking things from the dog? It appears not, nor, does it appear she has any desire to do so. So unfortunately the problem over time is only going to get worse . I'm Very use to blame the messenger because I present facts that the OP does not want to hear, I can not fix someone else's cognitive bias and am long past trying. I provide current factual matter. the science behind it nothing more nothing less, I have begun to find it amusing the people take factual content as a personal affront but as I understand it , it is not unusual when people have to confront there cognitive biases.