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Old 03-06-2018, 07:15 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Food and Feeding questions



I have been feeding Toby Nutro Ultra because that is what they were feeding him when I adopted him. He is about 6 1/2 months now and I was told this would be the time to switch. The only reason I thought to switch is because of the "Blue" brand that I hear so many good things about, but does anyone have information on Nutro vs Blue? Also when do I switch from puppy food to adult food?

My other question is around how much food. Right now I split it into twice a day morning and evening and am giving 2 cups in the morning and 1 cup in the evening with some small treats/biscuits each day as well. Is that the right amount? He weights about 37 pounds at 6 1/2 months now. I don't want to over feed, but I don't want him hungry either.

Any advice is appreciated as this is my first Basset Hound!

Thank you!!
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Old 03-07-2018, 02:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The best food is one that you can afford and that your dog does well on. Don't feel pressured into keeping your dog on "premium" foods if he doesn't do well on them , I could go on a whole rant on this but I won't at this point for the sake succintness. What you should look for is as follows...

* Meets AAFCO nutrient requirements
* Good track record on recalls (Few recalls and good about getting the recall notice out quickly)
* Added vitamins and minerals inc. Omega Fatty Acids

Pluses:

* Does AAFCO feeding trials to prove the nutrition of their food
* Participates in dog nutrition research
* Avoids gimmicky marketing ("Instinctual diet", "biologically appropriate", etc).

There is nothing wrong with Blue food itself, but many will still tell you to avoid the brand. They have a troubled history of recalls and, especially, not releasing recall notices in a timely manner. Nothing turns me away from a company faster than putting my dog in danger to avoid losing face!

As for the puppy food thing, people have different opinions on that. Puppy food is formulated to encourage healthy growth, and large breed puppy growth has a special emphasis on bone and joint growth. This is very important for Bassets! They may not weigh as much as a "large" breed, but they are built like tanks For this reason, I believe Bassets should be fed large puppy food to the age of 1 at minimum. After that you can switch to a large breed adult food. Like I said, there are are some people who think large breed/puppy food is a scam, but there's no harm in feeding it even if it is.



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Old 03-07-2018, 02:06 PM   #3 (permalink)
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As for amount, there are general guidelines on the food bag. However, that is extremely variable based on activity and individual metabolism. A dog who lazes around all day may need 2 cups a day, a hunting dog who spends all day in the field may need 5!

The best way to tell, especially since your pup is growing, is to look at body condition. If it's ideal, you're feeding an appropriate amount. Essentially, you should be able to feel ribs but not see them. There are guides to tell online and your vet will also be able to help.



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Old 03-07-2018, 02:44 PM   #4 (permalink)
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http://www.wec.ufl.edu/floridaquail/...BIRD%20DOG.pdf

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...d-dog-science/

More fat, less protein improves detection dogs' sniffers | Cornell Chronicle

https://www.pastoralemaoholambra.com...%C3%A9reo..pdf

https://www.purinaproclub.com/resour...r-performance/

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/6b1...97d525ec30.pdf

https://www.vin.com/apputil/content/...=11372&print=1
Quote:
The dietary proportions of fat, protein, and carbohydrate influence the fuel selection
during exercise. Accommodation to a high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet increases
muscle storage of fat and the rate of fat utilisation, and thus increases endurance bypreserving muscle glycogen stores. Similarly, feeding diets high in carbohydrate
increases glycogen storage in muscle, but also increases the rate of glycogen
utilisation. Thus the potential benefit of increased muscle glycogen storage is
negated by the increased rate of utilisation, and muscle glycogen is preserved more
effectively by feeding high-fat diets. The adaptations induced by endurance exercise
training result in a marked sparing of carbohydrate during exercise, with an increased
proportion of the energy being provided by fat oxidation. Training increases the
mitochondrial mass of myocytes and increases the rate at which NEFA can be
oxidised.
Protein utilisation increases during exercise by dogs and continues to increase with
exercise duration. Low-protein diets have been shown to reduce VO and
increase the rate of soft-tissue injury in exercising dogs. This effect has been shown
in diets that have differed as little as 19% ME protein and 24% ME protein, where the
lower protein diet resulted in 8 times as many soft-tissue injuries in treadmillexercising
dogs. During normal exercise, muscles reduce the risk of stress fracture
by contracting to reduce bending strains on cortical bone surfaces. Significant
increases in peak bone strain of the tibia in Foxhounds have been identified when
exercised to the point of fatigue. These findings have been further illustrated in
human athletes wherein gait changes from fatigue increase peak vertical ground
reaction force by 25%, and tibial tension strain significantly increases. Thus diets
that reduce muscle fatigue are likely to reduce both orthopaedic and soft-tissue
injuries in working farm dogs
https://books.google.com/books?id=3F...URANCE&f=false [quote] Similar endurance tests have been done using Beagles running on a treadmill. When the dogs were switched from a high-carb diet based on grains to one only containing pigs lungs and whole chicken the results were "profound" as the researchers stated. The Beagles performance was 31% better on the high-protein diet than it was on kibble containing grain."

The hunting dog diet: nutritional needs of the working dog | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Quote:
“Humans get most of their energy from carbs,” he said. “We’ve found that dogs, particularly working dogs with a high level of athleticism, get most of their energy from fats. These dogs have higher nutritional needs. Nutrition drives the ability of the muscles to adapt to the exercise regimen, and performance formulas have more fat than maintenance formulas.”

A high-fat diet can be beneficial, even for dogs that get little exercise. The research shows that when less active dogs are put on a performance diet for a several months, their muscles become primed to adapt to exercise metabolism. Zanghi, owner of beloved retriever and co-founder of a retriever club in Kentucky, said hunters shouldn’t wait for September to start their dogs on a new performance formula.

NUTRITION: RENDERING SENSE INTO FEEDING FAT::Mushing.com - The Online Magazine of Dog-Powered Sports
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Old 03-07-2018, 03:11 PM   #5 (permalink)
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in a short haired dog if you never can seen the ribs the dog is fat. and never seen a dog even morbidly obese that you could not feel the ribs. IMHO the "Feel but not see the ribs yarn is one reason a> 50 of all dogs are overweight.

Whether you can or can't see the ribs has so many factors other than weight/amount of fat it becomes virtually meaningless. Lighting, hair length, Hair color, texture , amount of undercoat. position, lightsource etc
see attached photos

see http://www.caninesports.com/uploads/...bsite_2012.pdf for a better hands on rib test.
Attached Thumbnails
Food and Feeding questions-ace-2005-011.jpg   Food and Feeding questions-y-agility-2005-035.jpg   Food and Feeding questions-y-agility-2005-052.jpg   Food and Feeding questions-y-agility-2005-006.jpg  
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Old 03-08-2018, 09:49 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Don't believe the hype....feed a balanced food your dog does well on. Personally we like Purina....they began feed studies back in the 1920's and sustain a research organization with canine nutritionists and vets ON STAFF....they quite literally wrote the book on feeds. Won't go into it further....just do as you wish....if your dog does well that is all that matters in the end. Different dogs need different diets.

Mikey T....your pics are great! Not wishing to hijack here, but Trudy is putting on weight due to training treats.....I have reduced her feed, but she has put on about 5 pounds in 6 months...she was a bit thin when we got her, and of she had just been spayed as a rescue in the spring...but don't want her to get any plumper....tips on training with low calorie treats? She doesn't like Cheerios....have her on green beans mixed with her kibble trying to get some weight off. She is down to about 1/2 cup morning and night w/beans...
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Old 03-10-2018, 04:37 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I feed Nutro Ultra Puppy to my 7 month old basset and I researched Blue Buffalo thinking I would switch. When I typed in Blue Buffalo, I got a bunch of info on recalls and law suits. I didn’t get that for Nutro. When I started reading on the lawsuits and recalls, it made up my mind. It is supposed to be one of the best foods, but I compared and the ingredients are very similar. My cockers lived for 16 and 18 years on Nutro puppy, Nutro Ultra, Nutro Weight control and Nutro Senior. I agree with the best food is the one that works for you and your wallet. I was told to keep my baby on the puppy food for a year and since he’s not overweight, I think I will do that.
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Old 03-10-2018, 08:32 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Polly I would not be looking at low calorie training treats. It is important that they be motivating. You can look at size. It seem dogs are better at counting so more small tiny treats work better than one larger as a reward.

The weight gain is unlikely the treat but the spay. Need to feed less at meal time
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Old 03-11-2018, 02:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Mikey

Still trying to train husband, he sneaks her last bites of PB sandwiches. Current trainer uses LOTS of treats....more than I think are necessary. But she also uses "Jackpot" which is sometimes one treat, sometimes a whole handful. She says that it keeps the response stronger.....and creates a stronger draw from distractions. Dog thinks distraction is better than one known treat....but might not be good as what MIGHT be given....so best to go with owner. Some good logic there. Thinking when snow is off here we will go for more exercise.....hate winter.........too easy to slip and fall.....

She actually gets very little kibble these days, and have been using part for her "treats".
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Old 03-28-2018, 05:02 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Thank you! So glad I raised this question before trying to switch!
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