|01-17-2017, 09:11 AM||#12 (permalink)|
"(and of course, accompanying high levels of other ingredients)"
as studies have shown It is overfeed that is a problem not a particular ingredient. as noted before you also do not feel a need to keep puppies thin so keep blaming phantom ingredients and not overfeeding. That said we are not talking high growth puppy here 0-6 or 7 months of age so diet plays a diminished roll in any orthopedic issues,
http://www.lgd.org/library/Optimal%20feeding%20of%20large%20breed%20puppies.p df"The same group went on to
investigate the individual dietary components and demonstrated that dietary
protein level had no effect on the development of osteochondrosis (Nap, et. al,
1991). For some reason, dietary protein level continues to be incriminated by
some owners, breeders, and veterinarians, despite the lack of supportive
In contrast to protein, excessive calories and inappropriate amounts of
calcium have both been shown to negatively influence optimal skeletal
development in puppies. While overnutrition in adult dogs leads to obesity and
can lead to serious health problems such as cardiorespiratory disease, we
recognize other problems in puppies that result from the same practice of
overfeeding. It is necessary to feed the puppy enough to allow for controlled
growth, but it is equally important to avoid overfeeding. Many people believe that
a round puppy is a happy healthy puppy. However, maximal growth is not
optimal growth. Adult size is principally influenced by genetics; however, the time
to reach adult size can and should be controlled by proper nutrition. Excess
calories can predispose large breed puppies to developmental bone disease,
including hypertrophic osteodystrophy (Dammrich, 1991).
While any food has the potential to cause problems with skeletal
development if overfed or supplemented, maximal growth in puppies is
commonly occurs with feeding a highly palatable, high energy density growth
diet. These types of diets are often overeaten if fed on a free choice basis, or
simply too much is fed on a meal basis. There is currently no perfect formula to
guarantee an optimal rate of growth for an individual puppy. It is especially
important to avoid overnutrition during periods of the most rapid growth, which
will vary with breed and between individuals. Breed and individual differences,
environmental factors such as climate, and activity level will all affect the amount
of food required. Obviously, palpable body fat is not specific enough to be a
guideline for optimal nutrition. Provide an amount of food that will maintain lean
body condition throughout growth. This will allow for a slow growth rate, but won’t
affect the final adult size. The goal is to keep growing puppies lean at about a
body condition score of around 4 on a scale of 1-9 (a score of 1 is emaciated and
9 is grossly obese)"
Feeding Large Breed Puppies - IVC Journal
"The most important factors in preventing developmental orthopedic disease (DOD) are rate of growth (which is proportional to the caloric intake) and dietary calcium level.
A common misconception found in many internet articles is the claim that dietary protein should be controlled in large breed puppies to prevent skeletal abnormalities. This theory was disproved some years ago (Nap, 1991). Most commercial puppy foods contain more protein than is thought necessary, but studies have shown that protein contents of 23% to 31% (dry matter) do not have a deleterious effect on growth. The effects of high dietary protein contents in the range of those found in raw diets have not been investigated, to this author’s knowledge
...Body condition score
The body condition score (BCS) is an estimation of the body fat content. I recommend the 9-point scale, which is better validated (and in use anyway if one allows “half scores” in the 5-point system). All pet owners should learn how to perform a body condition score for their animals. Training your veterinary support staff to teach clients, having charts and pictures as well as making your own videos can lower the overall obesity level in your patients. Since this is such an important issue, you may also want a bulletin board for photos of your patients’ progress.
In puppies, the BCS should be monitored weekly, since the calorie requirement constantly increases to six to 12 months of age (depending on the breed). Maintain a body condition score of 4/9 in large breed, rapidly growing puppies. Remind clients to ignore the feeding quantities listed on commercial bags and to follow recommended amounts for a fresh food diet.
...Most nutritionists recommend that large, fast growing puppies eat diets containing at least 30% protein and 9% fat (dry matter basis). The calcium content should be around 1.5% (or 3 grams/1,000 kcal). Diets may have nutrient contents that vary from this guideline and still be appropriate, but you can’t know for sure without in-depth analysis. A very popular raw diet for dogs, carrying the AAFCO statement “formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles for All Life Stages” supplies too much calcium for large breed puppies. The calcium content on an as fed basis is 0.56% and the phosphorus content is 0.38%, which conform to AAFCO recommendations for growth. By converting the calcium and phosphorus concentrations to dry matter levels, and correcting for energy density, the calcium content of this diet is 7.5 grams/1,000 kcal. So if a large breed puppy is getting the expected caloric intake, he is eating too much calcium. In another example, a major OTC adult maintenance dry diet contains 22% protein, 1.1% calcium and 0.8% phosphorus as fed. After converting to dry matter content and correcting for energy, the protein content is 24% or 69 grams/1,000 kcal, and the calcium is 3.5 grams/1,000 kcal. The calcium content is correct, and the protein content is adequate but a little marginal for growth. "
|01-17-2017, 09:52 AM||#13 (permalink)|
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: S.West UK
Not having waded through all the latest verbal, one thing I did pick out (hardly to be missed in red) was the fact that I have never regarded the Basset as a 'fast growing Breed'. My bloodline certainly wasn't and I believe mine ended up as sound adults, having got there by growing at a sensible rate, with a sensible diet. It could be frustrating not to have a 'flyer' in terms of going into the ring at 6 months but at least mine went into the ring, when ready, and didn't have to be pulled by 12 months because they suddenly went lame!!!
And that, my friend, is why I've recently tended not to reply to as many questions on this website as I might have done in the past. I can't be bothered to talk to a brick wall. Rarely have my comments not be met with a huge amount of copy/pasted comments back. And this isn't for the sake of discussion - it appears more to be trying to be one-up on what I say, which comes from EXPERIENCE. Not necessarily from text-books.
I hope I have been able to offer some help to those who ask, where needed, but not for any longer.
Last edited by FranksMum; 01-18-2017 at 06:04 AM.