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Old 08-05-2015, 10:52 AM   #11 (permalink)
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2 points:

agree about the cage rest. was critical for 5 weeks with us. out to pee, poop on lead then back in cage

disagree about no evidence surgery works.

Sophies before and after xrays show the clear improvement in the elbow congruency (and of course the other problems corrected by the surgery)
Zack is always on the leash and tied to a fixed object. There were a couple of times he made the run for the rabbits - suckers can be so nimble when they want to be. Thanks all for the advice. We called the surgeon on Monday and his take was that it will take 2-3 weeks before they put weight on the leg. So far so good we hope.
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Old 08-05-2015, 01:30 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Zack is always on the leash and tied to a fixed object
OK but is he supervised, any period of recovery should be kept calm & monitored. Weight bearing is good but again supervised.
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Old 08-05-2015, 02:05 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Sophies before and after xrays show the clear improvement in the elbow congruency
there is no long term evidence surgery reduces degenerative joint disease over conservative approach which include weight control and pain management. No is there any evidence that it improve mobility for the most part because studies have not been done. and Has been demonstrated in HD (hip dysplasia) radiographic images correlate poorly to clinical signs which is also the case in ED the fact that x-ray imaged show improvement in alignment are nice but do not demonstrate functional improvement like force plate measurements. Contrary to popular belief much of Medicine is not evidence or Scientifically based and is more seat of the pants.


The lack of evidence does not mean that it does not work it is simply a lack of evidence that it does and that should be a relevant part of any decision to have the procedure done or not.

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Old 08-05-2015, 07:52 PM   #14 (permalink)
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OK but is he supervised, any period of recovery should be kept calm & monitored. Weight bearing is good but again supervised.
He is supervised - for the most part. Bless my wife. I travel for work Mon-Thurs so she does the heavy lifting.
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Old 08-06-2015, 06:33 PM   #15 (permalink)
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The lack of evidence does not mean that it does not work it is simply a lack of evidence that it does and that should be a relevant part of any decision to have the procedure done or not.
agree on the surgery and lack of prevention of further degenerative joint disease. In fact, the ortho surgeon said she will likely develop arthritis, etc sooner rather than later due to her problems.

correct..many things work, don't work, some supported by studies, some anecdotal.

there are good and bad studies as well.

in our case, a very young dog who was very symptomatic surgery improved her quality of life

each case/decision is indeed different
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Old 08-07-2015, 05:36 PM   #16 (permalink)
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"all basset have elbow dysplasia it is actual called for in the breed standard" :o :eek: :rolleyes:

Edit - Still reeling at this comment ....... I simply can't believe you think this is the case. Animals suffering with hip/elbow dysplasia more often go on to develop arthritis in later life if they make it that far without going lame!! You mean to tell me any Breed Standard would be 'calling for' such a fault? How can any dog with 'dysplasia' be regarded as a sound animal?

[URL
http://www.bva.co.uk/uploadedFiles/Content/Canine_Health_Schemes/Elbow_Scheme/CHS-elbow-dyspalsia-feb-2014.pdf[/URL]

If any Breed Standard is really 'calling for' this malformation of the front assembly, it needs REWRITING.
Totally agree, sad such deformities are considered expectable, dismissed as 'normal', shameful; makes me want to weep & a tragedy for those dogs who have to live with them. Arthritis is unpleasant, it can be managed but long term pain relief causes other problems & it only gets worse as the years pass.

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Old 08-08-2015, 11:15 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Elbow dysplasia is a group of Different elbow problems OCD, UAP, FAP, and Elbow incongruity that is thought by many to be the cause or a contributing factor to all but OCD . For the vast majority of case when discussing elbow dysplasia in basset they are actual talk elbow incongruity and that is specifically what I am talking about. OCD UAP and FAP should they occur need to be correct that said it is noted in Basset UAP as late as 8 month can be normal and not need correction which very few vets are aware of as well Orthopedics
"The ossification center at the anconeal process normally fuses by 5 months of age, and so the presence of a lucent line on radiographs confirms the diagnosis in dogs past this age. The exceptions are the St. Bernard and basset hound, in which the anconeal process may fuse as late as 7 to 8 mo (2). "

I would find it hilarious if it were not so sad and potential harmful that a couple of you think that basset hound are like no other dogs when it comes to behavior , feed. training yet in the regards of how they are put together orthopedically should be no different the labs. It is quite clear however what would WORK for a lab or other medium to large herding or sporting breed is not going to work for a basset hound. Straight legs from the shoulders Would be very painful and not allow proper front end support. In order to function support the front end of a basset properly they must have crooked front Legs. How is the Crook achieved. Quite simply by differential length in the radius and ulna that cause the leg to bow around the chest. A different length in the ulna and radius by definition is elbow incongruity. A basset needs some to function properly. Therefore some elbow incongruity is requires. Elbow incongruity is not a deformity in the breed or any dwarf breed it is required for proper functioning. To expected orthopedically a dwarf breed to need the same structure as a non dwarf breed is ridiculous. While no incongruity or to0 much incongruity certainly can be a deformity it is the matter of amount not if it exists at all. While rare too much or too little can lead to problems as well like pain, limping and Degenerative Joint Disease (arthritis). Keep in mind the real issue is not Elbow dysplasia, elbow incongruity. or Hip Dysplasia . It is DJD that occurs later as a result of these conditions. keeping in mind that they are only contributing factors and many/most dogs with Dysplasia or incongruities never develop DJD.

Hip scores do not correlate anywhere near as well as they should with soundness or comfortable working lives. When I spoke to the orthopedic surgeon about Clue, I got some very good and very candidly given information. He said several things: This is not a breed he sees, as a surgeon who does lots of work to relieve pain in hips or to analyze x-rays. This is not a breed coming in with pain issues. It’s not a breed he associates with dysplasia symptoms with any regularity. He does not recommend OFA for corgis of any type, because he feels that the scoring is more or less guesswork unless the joint is clearly already arthritic or the socket just plain doesn’t exist, and EVEN THEN he rarely sees dogs come in with pain.
He said, and this is close to an exact quote, “These are dogs with weird hips, and they get along just beautifully on those weird hips.”


This we know there is a loose association with elbow dysplasia and Hip dysplasia as designated by radiographic images and Degenerative Joint Disease. but this association is not a strong as most believe, There is no correlation with the severity of elbow dysplasia, hip lacticity and Hip dysplasia and the occurrence of DJD . It is why many of us feel that way to often surgery is being performed on elbows without a substantial realistic expectation that it is going to help long term over conservative treatment,


One also has to question the usefulness of the Current scheme to reduce incidence OFA testing for more than a decade has resulted in a reduction of 1% in the incidence of hip dysplasia. Yet we find that something as simple as keep the puppy slim during the major growth period results in a nearly 50% decrease in Hip dysplasia. It appears that the proportion attributed to genetics is overstated,

http://barbety.pl/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Controlling-canine-hip-dysplasia-in-Finland.pdf
As a retrospective study, records of hip-dysplasia screening of 69,349 dogs in 22
breeds that were born in 19881995 were analyzed and compared to data from prior to 1988. In
most breeds, no significant changes in dysplasia prevalence could be found


LABRADORNET - Hip dysplasia (CHD)
"At present, the strongest link to contributing factors other than genetic predisposition appears to be to rapid growth and weight gain. In a recent study done in Labrador retrievers a significant reduction in the development of clinical hip dysplasia occurred in a group of puppies fed 25% less than a control group which was allowed to eat free choice"



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Old 08-09-2015, 06:54 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I would find it hilarious if it were not so sad and potential harmful that a couple of you think that basset hound are like no other dogs when it comes to behavior , feed. training yet in the regards of how they are put together orthopedically should be no different the labs..


Oh dear - something else I guess, we have to agree to disagree about

To think that the Basset is just like other dogs (I don't look on the Basset as 'A DOG' in any case)? Really?

For the record I have never suggested the Basset construction is 'no different to the labs'. Far from it. But again, NO breed standard should be 'calling for' elbow dysplasia and elbow dysplasia, in the strictest sense of the condition, shouldn't ever be accepted in the breed. So are you suggesting that given they are all dysplastic (elbows), can we assume that they are all doomed to develop arthritis in later life? Hardly!!
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Old 06-29-2016, 03:00 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I've been searching around and reading threads like this, as my 8 month old female, Bailey, has kind of a wonky right front leg, and I was wondering if it's a major issue. We noticed her limping, favoring the right leg, early on, but she's still able to run and jump and do all the normal Basset things. I completely understand that when dwarfism is bred into an animal, deformities can be pretty common.

My question is, does this look like something Bailey (and we) will be able to live with, or are we looking at problems and/or surgery down the road.

(Bonus 4 month cutie-pie picture, just 'cause)
Attached Thumbnails
Basset with elbow dysplasia surgery-20160618_105052-1-.jpg   Basset with elbow dysplasia surgery-20160618_105122-1-.jpg   Basset with elbow dysplasia surgery-20160204_092926-1-.jpg  
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Old 06-29-2016, 05:03 PM   #20 (permalink)
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To evaluate front ends you need a standing ie weight bearing Picture and a video of the dog moving at a trot is helpful as well

question is the dog Spayed if not hold of spaying until full maturity 18 months to two years spaying before than can exaggerate any genetic issues.

2. the fact the dog in limping as a puppy makes it more likely there will be an issue later on than if it did not. This is even more true if the limp is because of an orthopedic/bone issue other than pano or a soft tissue strain/sprain injury.

3. Seen a lot worse without a problem Visual manifestation of a poor front is not a good indication of pain or future problems. That is how bad it looks does not correlate to pain and/or developing arthritis.



Is a fiddled fronted as it gets and IMHO the most gifted agility basset ever.



but she is not knuckled under. I find a dog that is knuckled over along with being easty -westy more likely to have problems than one that is not.

Last edited by Mikey T; 06-29-2016 at 05:08 PM.
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