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Old 01-29-2007, 12:26 AM   #11 (permalink)
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edited to add: to say any of the leash training devices does not inflict pain is going to far. when a dog pulls against a restraint regadless of what that restraint is there will be some pain. be it the neck from a collar of any type, the chest if a harness, arm pits if a sporn or the neck again if a head halter. The question of when a sensation cross over to become painfull is very individual indeed. So one must be cautious about claims of not inducing pain.

Whether one choses to use physical corrections or not is a personal choice which will effect the choice in training equipment they use.


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Old 01-29-2007, 03:02 AM   #12 (permalink)
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What is a martingale collar and what's its purpose? I ordered a Christmas collar for Francis and it came in the "martingale" style. Since Francis rarely uses a leash I couldn't figure out the action and why I would use it. Thanks
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Old 01-29-2007, 01:44 PM   #13 (permalink)
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That is where you are mistaken the intent of the collar is not to inflict pain if anything a traditional choke iduces mor pain and injury it is to create more feeling. It intent is to be used with a light touch much lighter than is required with a choke chain.
It is not for all dog or all handlers It very look is what puts most people off they never get to the point of how it actual work and how to use it effectively. if interested in learn more read the link I posted above. FWIW it is by the same author who wrote about the "problem with head halters" which are not without their own set of risks.[/b]
I think we will just have to agree to differ there. I do not believe "prongs" belong on the inside of a collar (or anywhere on a collar for that matter!) - and yes of course they only (theoretically) require a "light touch" - for obvious reasons.

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What is a martingale collar and what's its purpose? I ordered a Christmas collar for Francis and it came in the "martingale" style. Since Francis rarely uses a leash I couldn't figure out the action and why I would use it. Thanks[/b]
A martingale collar is a type of "half-check " - it restricts but only to a certain point.
martingales

Very usefuly for narrow headed breeds which slip collars...

What type of collar do people recommend for a Basset?


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Old 01-29-2007, 03:45 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I didn't mean to get everyone arguing.

I don't want to continue the arguement but I don't have a problem with pronged collars if used correctly. I had a trainer when I was 9 work with me weekly (I was only allowed to use it with her around) for months until I could use it correctly with my first dog. He would pull me across the neighborhood and I'd come home with welts on my hands. She figured it was a good choice for him - personally. It worked. 13 years later (yes he's still alive - partially deaf and blind), he's still the best dog my parents have ever had.

Anyways, I'm not really considering anything until I have my two evaluated in about a week. We are starting puppy obedience! I'm so excited! I really can't wait to move up the obedience ladder and do tracking or agility or something!!
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Old 01-29-2007, 06:44 PM   #15 (permalink)
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FWIW the SPCA here are calling for prong collars to be made illegal. They consider them to be barbaric. Most training schools in my area do not allow the use of choke chains either. I would not feel comfortable using any of these methods to walk or train Toby. I agree with Kerrio that the dog should be trained to walk to heel using positive reinforcement. (i.e. food)
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Old 02-02-2007, 12:26 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Hello, never heard of the illusion collar but I do use something called a Canny Collar on my Basset when we are around town and stopping alot, it is slightly different to the halti as it controls the dog from the back of the head instead of under the chin.
He doesnt much like it and it takes alot of getting used to but it saves my bad back when there is alot of distraction around! He soon forgets about it when we are walking around as he is more interested in the attention he gets constantly!!!
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Old 02-02-2007, 08:00 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
What is a martingale collar and what's its purpose? I ordered a Christmas collar for Francis and it came in the "martingale" style. Since Francis rarely uses a leash I couldn't figure out the action and why I would use it. Thanks[/b]
Martingale sometime called a "greyhound" collar looks like a traditional flat buckle collar but has a limited slip action. It will sinch like a chole chain but only a limited amount unlike a choke chain. For dogs that have necks that are bigger than their head which is the case with many bassets it is one of the only method to keep the dog from backing out of a collar.

for a better discription see How a Martingale Collar Works


This illustration shows how the two loops on a martingale collar work.



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Old 02-02-2007, 08:57 PM   #18 (permalink)
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One of the problems I've noticed with the Halti-type head harnesses is due to the Basset's head conformation. Bassets don't have well-defined stops, and the strap that goes over the nose tends to slide up under their eyes too easily.
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Old 02-02-2007, 11:12 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I use martingale collars with both my hounds, with moderate-to-good results. They generally don't pull me, but they don't really "heel" either. Admittedly, I'm not much of a trainer. I first got one for Dudley, he was nuts when we first got him from rescue, and would slip a regular collar in nothing flat.

My neighbors used a prong collar to train their dog, and she's now really great on the leash. She's a well-behaved, well-adjusted dog, very happy.
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Old 02-03-2007, 07:15 PM   #20 (permalink)
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All of my dogs are obedience trained and titled and I never ask my dogs to heel when I take them on a walk. Walk's are for their pleasure and pace (meaning really long sniff, fetch, swim, hunt outings). I use martingale collars which I love. It's got the advantage of a little pressure for the occasional obnoxious pulling. I have never used a prong on a Basset, but did on my Lab. Have you ever tryed teaching a 90 lb. mass of muscle to heel? If used correctly they are safer and more effective than any other type of collar and they instill instant respect. They do not inflict pain, they are irritating to the dog. FWIW the neck is the strongest part of a dog's body. I put the prong around my wrist and felt what amounts of pressure felt like. And, unlike Stryker, I don't think it's normal to jump in the North Atlantic Ocean in Jan. In other words, it only hurts if you use it wrong. I also would never use a prong on a soft dog or one that didn't "need" it. I don't believe in TOTALLY positive reinforcement training. Neither do mother dogs. Take care, Belinda.
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