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Old 01-15-2013, 11:33 AM   #21 (permalink)
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The issue being that this is one of the few cases where testosterone is actually fuelling the aggression, so it's probably best to remove it from both dogs.
I would agree, with the one caveat, we are making the assumption that it is testosterone related without seeing the behavior and other posible trigger. But give the absense of the usual triggers,imho testosterone is a very likely cause.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:04 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I am just hoping that they come back to read this and tell us how it goes. I for one would like to know what happens.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:23 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I would agree, with the one caveat, we are making the assumption that it is testosterone related without seeing the behavior and other posible trigger. But give the absense of the usual triggers,imho testosterone is a very likely cause.
Agree that without seeing the behaviour or the knowledge to say it is testosterone, wouldn't an injection of supreloin to the 'more submissive' of the boys give an indication of what might happen if castration is chosen. Though with siblings I'd think very difficult to determine who is the more submissive as have always believed hierachy changes depending on the situation or whats happening at any moment
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:51 PM   #24 (permalink)
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If they're fighting all the time, I'd speculate that neither is particularly "submissive". It takes two to fight.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:42 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Though with siblings I'd think very difficult to determine who is the more submissive as have always believed hierachy changes depending on the situation or whats happening at any moment
that is because 1. dogs do not form packs 2. there is no such hierarchy in dogs however two individule dog may have a dominate-subordinate relationship it does not translate to a hierarchy when multiple dogs are involved.

I do not think treating only one is the solution and personally I am more concerned with the side effect of superlion than the castration itself
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:07 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Read it, and I'm not saying "cut'em", at the blink of an eye. For me and the article there still is not enough information for me to be convinced they have proven anything.As for beating a dead horse,yes we have, and I keep flogging that sucker. I thing an unneutered dog(if they are not being used) is an accident waiting to happen,plus they get nuts when bitches are in heat,would wait till they are past age one then snip. Ok then I'm outta here!
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:00 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I have sibling girls here-we got the most skittish submissive pup first, and then a few months later took in her outgoing bossy sister in from a previous owner.

Knock wood, they've never drawn blood, but they do fight over toys and food. Luckily Emily is the most submissive dog, she will routinely lay down to be cleaned all over, especially eyes and ears by Mabel after a set-to.

Here's my question, should I feed Mabel first and generally reinforce her higher position?
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:51 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I do not think treating only one is the solution and personally I am more concerned with the side effect of superlion than the castration itself
Can cause initial surge in testosterone, weight gain, definite shrinkage to testis, & can cause aggression, but is this due to lack of testosterone & what would happen anyway if castrated?
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:54 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Here's my question, should I feed Mabel first and generally reinforce her higher position?
does not work. I would keep a diary of incidents, and you will like find the triggers are less than you thing and simply controling those is easier than going the h=whole behavior mod route or instuting a policy you can not live with. I would also reccommend FEELING OUTNUMBERED? - HOW TO MANAGE & ENJOY A MULTI-DOG HOUSEHOLD, 2ND EDITION

for a fair review click here
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The guiding premise of the booklet is the value of teaching "polite, patient, and respectful" behaviors and making a conscious effort to reinforce these in situations where dogs might otherwise be pushy and demanding. The authors point out that, left unguided, many dogs will get pushier as they grasp for their own rewards, resulting in a mob of rude, potentially contentious dogs.

...
To their credit, London & McConnell don't focus on identifying and favoring the most dominant dog, nor on allowing dogs to work out their own conflicts. Rather, they stress that, "The best way to prevent status-related aggression... is to be a calm and confident leader, projecting a sense of benevolent power."
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:08 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I keep flogging that sucker
fWIW I was refering to the "alpha": pack hierarchy debate not nuetering

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For me and the article there still is not enough information for me to be convinced they have proven anything
there certinly are flaw in research methodology as it does not appear that the nueter and intacted were matched up using solid criteria. In the US where the study was done most dogs are nueter, so is their a bias toward beter quality in both temperment and conformation in male dogs the study because of the selection process by breeder choosing which dogs remain intact? But it is just another nail in the coffin that nueter dogs are less aggressive than intact dogs.

There are a whole host of issue in the to nueter or not nueter debate that are lifestype/economic issue and IMHO the tend to overide the dog health //behavior issues. For instance the cost of ownership of an intact dog is higher when including license fees etc, it may not be able to be boarded. etc along with livability issues ie the effect of nearby intact females in heat yad, yada yad. what is more or most important to any indivdual or family is going to be different and reasonable people can make sound choices that are completely opposite. I don't try and tell people what they should do on this issue but give them the info much of which is not a common as it should be to make there own informed rational choice,.
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