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Old 01-08-2013, 04:29 PM   #61 (permalink)
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My understanding in the UK is, that if you buy a pedigree - a pup/dog with five KC generations - that good breeders will ensure that the transfer of ownership comes with endorsements, this doesn't stop the bitch or dog being used for breeding but any offspring can't be registered with the KC, unless endorsements are lifted. So in theory the pups would be off less value.

Of course neutering prevents pups, but does it benefit the dog & that is my first consideration.

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My question would be, if they are not responsible enough to maintain an intact animal, are they responsible enough that they should have a dog at all? Seriously, what's involved in keeping dogs from breeding is basically good stewardship. It's not that hard. Really.

It was because of this that we made the decision to have dogs of the same sex, if it ever comes about that we have a bitch & an entire male then would have to think it through & work with it. Ensured our garden was dog proof before they joined us, they were never left out if we weren't about, in this house they are in a walled garden with two gates on either side of the house. Some of the replies to this thread seem to suggest that every time a male dog is loose it's rampant, whether it's managed to escape or out on a walk. Perhaps I'm over cautious but both boys spend time off lead most days, sometimes for hours on a walk but know were my dogs are, am mentally with them & watchful. They are part of our family, look out for them & my responsibility, it's not that hard.
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:44 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Scully View Post
Interesting. I guess it always seems to me that breeders might get a reputation of not being responsible if they did not require their pet puppy buyers to sign a spay/neuter contract. (And I'm not implying that I automatically find it irresponsible.) Perhaps that requirement is less commonplace than I realized, even amongst the reputable breeders. Like I said, I never really discussed the possiblity of being exempt from signing one, given that I have not had strong feelings against it.
well we're in the south, so there's that!
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:10 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Scully View Post
Going back to the above thought for a second -- and I'm not trying to be an ass by asking; I'm truly curious.....Are there responsible breeders in our part of the world who would sell their dogs to non-showing/non-breeding pet homes without a spay neuter contract? Maybe just have a non-breeding agreement, stating that the owner agrees to not suddenly decide to breed at any point in the dog's life, but not specifying that their method of avoiding a breeding would be a spay or neuter? Since I know that the good breeders try their best to ensure their dogs go to homes they truly trust, it just kind of seems to me that the whole spay/neuter agreement sort of implies that it is recognized that mistakes can happen even to responsible people, and sterilization eliminates that small chance. Or maybe that is just in my mind, which I know thinks very differently than many folks. Like I said, I am curious, because honestly, I have never had a problem with signing a spay/neuter contract, and therefore never really thought to have a discussion with a breeder about other options. [There was no contract with Scully ( came from BYB ), and Larsen was neutered as an adult before coming to live with us, so Ninja is actually the only one I had to agree to spay.]
Up until now, all my pet pups had a S/N agreement, plus they were registered non-breeding.

For my last litter, however, most of them went to show or performance homes and two males went to pet homes. I actually encouraged the pet homes not to neuter , or at least to wait until they were older(but they both did, and at a fairly young age). It is my thought now that if I can't trust the owners to do right by the dog I shouldn't be selling to them in the first place. I don't sell to just anybody.

There is still a non-breeding agreement, and if they stay in Canada they still have a non-breeding registration.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:24 PM   #64 (permalink)
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In regards to vasectomies in animals, they aren't always 100% effective. In humans, they are able to analyze the semen to determine sterilization. I don't know that it's as easy to do that in many animals. We have friend who work with chimpanzees rescue and they use vasectomies to sterilize the males. Over the past 7 years there have been two oops babies born because the vasectomies weren't effective. With castration its 100% fool proof.

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Old 01-09-2013, 10:27 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Actually that makes sense as i have known of a couple of oops human ones as well.
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