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Old 12-13-2012, 03:45 PM   #21 (permalink)
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hounds do want to please.

it's usually themselves... heehee
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:46 PM   #22 (permalink)
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haha, Esther, you got that right!
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:57 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebobinar View Post
Would you say, then, that this is not a breed that you can train out of particular behavoirs, like jumping on the counter, just because you don't want the dog on the counter? It sounds like perhaps if the dog wants a reward (food) it will do what it needs to to get the food, regardless of training?
I just want to be clear so I use the right methods.
In other breeds (I've worked with German Shepherds and pit bulls before) you can set a treat on the dog's nose and it won't grab it till you release it, because it wants to please. It seems like perhaps that sort of training won't work here, and I just need to remove the temptation by separating the dog from the counter or table or by not leaving food up there, not letting her in the room during dinner - that sort of thing.
Am I understanding correctly?
Pretty much...

The problem with counter surfing is that there is intermittent reinforcement, the strongest kind. Occasionally being successful at stealing/eating something (even if only rarely, is motivation enough for the hound to keep trying. The same motivation that keeps us buying lottery tickets or pulling the slot machine lever. Even though we keep being "punished" by losing our money, we keep trying in hopes of the payoff.

You could teach a Basset to hold a treat on the nose, but because it expects a reward, not because it wants to please. It doesn't give a damn about pleasing you.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:10 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundtrack View Post
Pretty much...
You could teach a Basset to hold a treat on the nose, but because it expects a reward, not because it wants to please. It doesn't give a damn about pleasing you.
This seems quite true. She comes happily when I call her and she wants to see me. She soldiers on as though completely deaf if she's more interested in something outside. I'll keep on with the come command and the counter surfing so that she's safe, but she really doesn't seem to want to please - just co-exist happily as equals.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:33 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
, but she really doesn't seem to want to please
I think this article explains it well

hard to Train?
A look at "difficult-to-train" breeds and the reality of what shapes these canine minds.


VSR explained

VSR= Variable Schedule of Reinforcement this is used to create a behavior that is every dificult to extinguish though extinction because the dog learns it is not going to get a reward every time only some of the time. So when no reward comes it is not a big deal. Variable reinforcement makes behaviors very hard to extinguish hence why the dog keeps coming back even though it has not been reinforced for a while.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:02 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I was able to break Simone's counter surfing by keeping food off the counter & being sneaky. I banged pan lids together when she jumped but made sure she did not see me, she thought the counters made the noise.
I trained her to stay off the furniture with $10 roll of clear carpet runner cut to size for the furniture cushions. Placed it spiky side up. Easy to fold & slide under the furniture when not needed. It only took a few jumps before she figured out it was off limits. No longer need it.
The first few months were hard!! I was tempted to give her back. My springer spaniel was obedient, eager to please. Simone is STUBBORN!!! Being negative or harsh is pointless with her, she shuts down. What works best is 100% consistency and that I am more stubborn than she is. She will obey, eventually. Oh, and do not underestimate the power of food!!!! Forget most of what you know from previous dogs. bassets are unique. The work will be hard but the reward is the sweetest, funniest best fur friend you've ever had. Best of luck.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:39 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Being negative or harsh is pointless with her, she shuts down
typical of the breed reaction to stress, ie flat basset etc.
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:07 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I have seen Margot shut down very badly with a trainer - the guy that brought flyball to the UK. Something I would never want to see again. Bassets have it made being stubborn (sometimes) and sooo sensitive... much more fun and rewarding to train
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:53 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Gabby shut down one time, our instructor was trying to bug her into playing with a toy. Gabs lay flat on her side and closed her eyes and pretended she was asleep.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:57 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Telling Gandy no just pisses him off and frustrates me, so I don't bother.


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