An Interesting Conversation

Wworm · 01-06-2012, 03:17 PM

I think a lot of bassets here want a nice peaceful forum, as Paisley says in the "Who are the Moderators" thread, as do we. Yet I see some barriers to that. i see something brewing (it will just bubble up some time from now, if not addressed), so that is why I am addressing this now.

I'm going to say again & again that it is not the topic of Raw Diets on this forum that are the problem. Actually, most of us on the forum can have civil, respectful, and fun conversations about just about anything, including Raw Diets.

So what I dislike is the implication that most of the people or the forum/Administrators are hostile to the idea Raw Diets. I see this implied several times in the "Who are the Moderators" thread. So to be very clear, we support people here and their varied opinions. However, we don't support rude & obnoxious behavior, and that is what happened on the Vegan Dog food thread. That was the reason it was taken down.

I have a ?? to ask: what would this forum be like if we all spoke like that? It would be way less pleasant that's for sure.

So when i crate trained Worm, i left him in there whining & crying and did not take him out. that worked well & he learned quickly to get used to the crate. Now every time i post that, Mikey will always post something like "Why take candy from a baby?" and he disagrees with me. He thinks you should take the dog out when they cry/whine. That's cool, and i let him have his opinion on that. that is what it means to "agree to disagree." I know he's not saying that because he does not support me, does not like me, or because he is against me.

I do not respond to him like "You don't know a thing about me and Worm. How dare you or anyone tell me what I should be doing! I have a lot of experience with dogs and I know how to handle them, thank you very much. Mikey you think you know everything because you regurgitate all this information, well you don't."

Really... what would it be like if everyone spoke that way to everyone else here on our forum?

in the same way, you can post about Raw Diets here and should feel free to, we totally welcome it, and every time you do, people will inevitably bring up the problems they see with the diet, like intestinal blockages and infections. that should be expected. honestly when I look at the Vegan Dog food thread, people were pointing out there concerns, just as they with all different topics here on the forum.

Here is the problem, and here is where I see it's going to be a problem again and again: when people post their different opinions, you view it as people attacking you and your beliefs, and not supporting you, and being against you.

Then this imagined hostility gives you license to become abrasive & rude to the other posters here. The posts on the Vegan Dog thread were obnoxious to a level that i have not seen here, it is in a category of its own; if you think Mikey is rude, it does not come close.

So... this is a long way of saying that Paisley, although I know you are wanting a peaceful & supportive forum, I question our ability to do that as a group because of the below.

We were told multiple times to look on the dog food forums by some posters. Someone did and found this thread below on another forum about us. Teeth after two months on raw - Page 3

So this is what I gather from the public conversation below: they go to other forums to speak ill of our forum here? And to make fun of us? And admit that they are here to join the forum to push their agenda re: raw diets? Direct quote from below: “And yes they seem to be much more closed mined. I got on there because someone on here said you should join your breed clubs to spreed the word” [about raw diets]

again, the crux of the problem is this: first assuming that the forum here will be closed to the idea (when actually we are an open minded bunch); then that justifies the rude behavior & responses because of this imagined hostility towards them (of course they are feeling defensive, they have already assumed we are hostile to their ideas, even when we have done nothing to show that sort of hostility).

These folks come to the forum with a hostile mindset towards us, assume we are hostile when we are not, and then make hostile & inflammatory remarks as a result of their own assumptions. This, to me, explains a lot about where the rude posts were coming from.

Basically, there is no investment in goodwill towards the posters here; instead only ill will in the name of pushing an agenda. We are almost a Raw Diet "project" for them.

I'm going to take it a step further, and say that it seems to me that they seem to enjoy doing it and causing frays, and I don't appreciate that. Despite all the posts from multiple people who were straightforward in saying that they were uncomfortable with the tone & abrasiveness in the Vegan Dog food thread, and then many more people more subtly expressing their discomfort with the thread, now on the "Who's the Moderator" thread, the responses are "I didn't see anything wrong." "that was actually a good debate." when really a lot of people were uncomfortable. it continues to show a lack of consideration for the other people on the forum.

all I have to say is that most of us are not here for that kind of thing. We are looking for support from each other. We treat each other kindly, gently, & respectfully; we are very nice to each other and have a lot of fun with it when this stuff’s not happening.

if you come in with an agenda and an assumption that we are going to be hostile, and you come in with ill will towards everyone here, well no wonder you are so comfortable saying rude, obnoxious, abrasive things, and making personal attacks on people there.

FWIW, Barney'sMom 2510 is a lot nicer on that other forum than on our forum & the Vegan Dog Food thread. And I do acknowledge that she is being nicer now, which I'm sure we all appreciate.

Herzo, to answer your ??, I did see your post & agreed with it at the time. However I see both of you in a different light after seeing yours & BarneysMom's posts below. It sounds like there is an agenda to be pushed here, and that feels a bit manipulative and I dislike that. My other observation is that both people continue to post on this forum despite not liking our forum very much, which is interesting.

So Basset Pals, sorry to bring up again. There were lingering ??s about us & the Administrator being hostile to Raw Diets, and they expressed it multiple times on the "Who's the Moderator Thread." Not addressing it now just means needing to address it later, probably after another round of rude postings when the topic comes up again, that is my feeling.

Bottom line, of course we welcome a respectful conversation about Raw Diets. But we do not tolerate rude, disrespectful postings here. We are a pretty nice forum & want to keep it that way.
--Worm & his person

ps. we are a bit irked by what someone showed us below so do not feel like editing this long post at the moment. please forgive the length.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barney'sMom2510: LOL Please I don't think I have made any friends over there with my opinions .If I had the before and after I would I am sure they would not be impressed without it since the main posters over there are so against it.

Herzo: I know, I wish I could back you up and I know I shouldn't be such a chicken about it. And if it weren't for Tracy being there every now and then I would. Wouldn't that be fun.
Well you made one with me. I'm not sure I have ether, Oh I have one gal I email to. I have tried to help several people never to get a reply back. It just kills me how people ask for help then just never come back or just don't reply.
Now if my dogs teeth would just look like your dogs. Mine still have some tarter on them.

Barney'sMom2510: I fed daisy extra bones to help get rid of it quickly. I could not believe how white they were underneath. Please on that forum they were worried about feeding mushy chicken wings in the merrick food. I enjoy this forum alot better people are so much more open minded about raising dogs.

Herzo: Yes I'm guessing it will take a little time. I like to feed them bones in the yard when it's nice but it seems so cold sometimes I don't like to do it. There back teeth look good but it's the canines. And yes they seem to be much more closed mined. I got on there because someone on here said you should join your breed clubs to spreed the word. Well I do think a couple of people have come here but don't post much. I haven't been on there for awhile I need to check on Flash.
They all seem to think you know who is the end all. I think sometimes he does have some good stuff but the typos and the long posts, well I don't read most of them, my bad. But I do like some of the people they mean well.

Barney'sMom2510: God yes the typos drive me a bit nuts. Randomly posting biased studies does not make you correct. Times are changin people have better more updated info on how to care for and feed your dogs. I was soured after the whole korky kennels post and some of their views on adoptring and making it seem negative. If they could see barney and how shiny he is every other basset we see has a duller dry coat not Barney his gleams all different shades of red he is so gorgeous and healty.

Pricey · 01-06-2012, 04:12 PM

Oh, I dunno what to say wormy, I have had a bit of a hiatus from the forum for a reason I'm pretty sure youre aware of. I did see the vegan thread but did not read it. I must say I am disappointed by this but I am glad you've put a pin in it.

Wworm · 01-06-2012, 04:23 PM

Thanks for letting me vent, Pricey.

I can see the "Who's the Moderator" thread has a nice end to it now which is good, but see the unresolved issue there and wanted to address it.

jaleely · 01-06-2012, 04:26 PM

I took a look at that forum last night. I joined...they look like such a nice and open community. Completely not biased, and totally friendly and eager to befriend. My posts haven't showed up today. Maybe it's a weird glitch.

I'll have to post what I said after work, but it was just commenting on their great ideas of conversion, their politeness, grace, and just what great darn tootin internet etiquette they have! Makes me want to go on that other forum all the time so I can have posts responded to with knee-jerk reactions, over reactions, assumptions, and complete sweeping statements that contradict other rude statements! Especially the all caps. I know how wrong it is to have an opposing opinion with some people. They should have every right to call names, and get angry, just because you ask them for facts to support their opinion! Opinion...who am i kidding? It's law!
I should know that I am just *wrong* and by responding a day later to a post that directly speaks to me in part of it...well that's just me starting something childishly. I should give into having these people feed my dog for me, like they said. After all, just because it's something they've said, i'm sure my dog will love it...Oh well i forget that my dog is allergic...i'm probably just making that up to be offensive anyway!

I think people who can't respond nice at all times, even with their own opinions, and especially WHEN they disagree, should keep to themselves.

Esther · 01-06-2012, 04:32 PM

jaleely · 01-06-2012, 04:37 PM

Glad the who is the mod thread calmed down. We have a lot of great people on here to calm things down, and keep a nice flow.
It's too bad that the one person i think who needed to realize how badly they like to stir things up and then get defensive didn't learn a single thing. It's allll about how they are a martyr and everyone MUST be against them for some reason. WHy, they're not abrasive or rude at all! It must be eeeeeveryone else! Clearly.

The internet is free baby, and you thought people were complaining in Corkey Kennels about slander, go ahead and keep spreading it around about a whole forum and see where that gets you. Maybe you should stay over there where people glorify your opinions and never asky why.
Do not come here and try to convert people to any idea you've come up with. ANd if you try, expect that people will disagree....and when they do, be polite. No one said you were boss and we all had to agree. You didn't even try to do things in a way that was open to everyone. You picked one or two people and decided to act offended. IT wasn't even your thread. You were even talking about a diet that wasn't even asked about...the thread was asking about something completely different.

Now, before you respond, why don't you use spell check, take down the caps, and reread outloud to yourself what you wrote so you can catch all the in-consistencies and sweeping statements. If you know what those are, as you claim, since you complained about other people doing it, please have the grace to check for it yourself. You'd have a lot less arguments...but then that's your intent, isn't it?

jaleely · 01-06-2012, 04:38 PM

*sigh* oh esther, you are doll. I think we all just got very riled up and protective. B and i both want bacon now though.

Soundtrack · 01-06-2012, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esther

As a low-carber, I approve of this post!

Actually, I had been planning to post on the "Vegan" thread because there are some points where I disagree with Mikey. But I can disagree politely.....

I'm having some bacon when I get home.

CatherineM · 01-06-2012, 04:46 PM

I didn't read either thread. I guess I'm glad now that I didn't.

Esther · 01-06-2012, 04:50 PM

see?
it makes the world a better, happier place.
and you can eat it raw? (ickie-poo)

01-06-2012, 03:17 PM	#1 (permalink)
Wworm Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Left Coast Posts: 1,972	An Interesting Conversation I think a lot of bassets here want a nice peaceful forum, as Paisley says in the "Who are the Moderators" thread, as do we. Yet I see some barriers to that. i see something brewing (it will just bubble up some time from now, if not addressed), so that is why I am addressing this now. I'm going to say again & again that it is not the topic of Raw Diets on this forum that are the problem. Actually, most of us on the forum can have civil, respectful, and fun conversations about just about anything, including Raw Diets. So what I dislike is the implication that most of the people or the forum/Administrators are hostile to the idea Raw Diets. I see this implied several times in the "Who are the Moderators" thread. So to be very clear, we support people here and their varied opinions. However, we don't support rude & obnoxious behavior, and that is what happened on the Vegan Dog food thread. That was the reason it was taken down. I have a ?? to ask: what would this forum be like if we all spoke like that? It would be way less pleasant that's for sure. So when i crate trained Worm, i left him in there whining & crying and did not take him out. that worked well & he learned quickly to get used to the crate. Now every time i post that, Mikey will always post something like "Why take candy from a baby?" and he disagrees with me. He thinks you should take the dog out when they cry/whine. That's cool, and i let him have his opinion on that. that is what it means to "agree to disagree." I know he's not saying that because he does not support me, does not like me, or because he is against me. I do not respond to him like "You don't know a thing about me and Worm. How dare you or anyone tell me what I should be doing! I have a lot of experience with dogs and I know how to handle them, thank you very much. Mikey you think you know everything because you regurgitate all this information, well you don't." Really... what would it be like if everyone spoke that way to everyone else here on our forum? in the same way, you can post about Raw Diets here and should feel free to, we totally welcome it, and every time you do, people will inevitably bring up the problems they see with the diet, like intestinal blockages and infections. that should be expected. honestly when I look at the Vegan Dog food thread, people were pointing out there concerns, just as they with all different topics here on the forum. Here is the problem, and here is where I see it's going to be a problem again and again: when people post their different opinions, you view it as people attacking you and your beliefs, and not supporting you, and being against you. Then this imagined hostility gives you license to become abrasive & rude to the other posters here. The posts on the Vegan Dog thread were obnoxious to a level that i have not seen here, it is in a category of its own; if you think Mikey is rude, it does not come close. So... this is a long way of saying that Paisley, although I know you are wanting a peaceful & supportive forum, I question our ability to do that as a group because of the below. We were told multiple times to look on the dog food forums by some posters. Someone did and found this thread below on another forum about us. Teeth after two months on raw - Page 3 So this is what I gather from the public conversation below: they go to other forums to speak ill of our forum here? And to make fun of us? And admit that they are here to join the forum to push their agenda re: raw diets? Direct quote from below: “And yes they seem to be much more closed mined. I got on there because someone on here said you should join your breed clubs to spreed the word” [about raw diets] again, the crux of the problem is this: first assuming that the forum here will be closed to the idea (when actually we are an open minded bunch); then that justifies the rude behavior & responses because of this imagined hostility towards them (of course they are feeling defensive, they have already assumed we are hostile to their ideas, even when we have done nothing to show that sort of hostility). These folks come to the forum with a hostile mindset towards us, assume we are hostile when we are not, and then make hostile & inflammatory remarks as a result of their own assumptions. This, to me, explains a lot about where the rude posts were coming from. Basically, there is no investment in goodwill towards the posters here; instead only ill will in the name of pushing an agenda. We are almost a Raw Diet "project" for them. I'm going to take it a step further, and say that it seems to me that they seem to enjoy doing it and causing frays, and I don't appreciate that. Despite all the posts from multiple people who were straightforward in saying that they were uncomfortable with the tone & abrasiveness in the Vegan Dog food thread, and then many more people more subtly expressing their discomfort with the thread, now on the "Who's the Moderator" thread, the responses are "I didn't see anything wrong." "that was actually a good debate." when really a lot of people were uncomfortable. it continues to show a lack of consideration for the other people on the forum. all I have to say is that most of us are not here for that kind of thing. We are looking for support from each other. We treat each other kindly, gently, & respectfully; we are very nice to each other and have a lot of fun with it when this stuff’s not happening. if you come in with an agenda and an assumption that we are going to be hostile, and you come in with ill will towards everyone here, well no wonder you are so comfortable saying rude, obnoxious, abrasive things, and making personal attacks on people there. FWIW, Barney'sMom 2510 is a lot nicer on that other forum than on our forum & the Vegan Dog Food thread. And I do acknowledge that she is being nicer now, which I'm sure we all appreciate. Herzo, to answer your ??, I did see your post & agreed with it at the time. However I see both of you in a different light after seeing yours & BarneysMom's posts below. It sounds like there is an agenda to be pushed here, and that feels a bit manipulative and I dislike that. My other observation is that both people continue to post on this forum despite not liking our forum very much, which is interesting. So Basset Pals, sorry to bring up again. There were lingering ??s about us & the Administrator being hostile to Raw Diets, and they expressed it multiple times on the "Who's the Moderator Thread." Not addressing it now just means needing to address it later, probably after another round of rude postings when the topic comes up again, that is my feeling. Bottom line, of course we welcome a respectful conversation about Raw Diets. But we do not tolerate rude, disrespectful postings here. We are a pretty nice forum & want to keep it that way. --Worm & his person ps. we are a bit irked by what someone showed us below so do not feel like editing this long post at the moment. please forgive the length. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Barney'sMom2510: LOL Please I don't think I have made any friends over there with my opinions .If I had the before and after I would I am sure they would not be impressed without it since the main posters over there are so against it. Herzo: I know, I wish I could back you up and I know I shouldn't be such a chicken about it. And if it weren't for Tracy being there every now and then I would. Wouldn't that be fun. Well you made one with me. I'm not sure I have ether, Oh I have one gal I email to. I have tried to help several people never to get a reply back. It just kills me how people ask for help then just never come back or just don't reply. Now if my dogs teeth would just look like your dogs. Mine still have some tarter on them. Barney'sMom2510: I fed daisy extra bones to help get rid of it quickly. I could not believe how white they were underneath. Please on that forum they were worried about feeding mushy chicken wings in the merrick food. I enjoy this forum alot better people are so much more open minded about raising dogs. Herzo: Yes I'm guessing it will take a little time. I like to feed them bones in the yard when it's nice but it seems so cold sometimes I don't like to do it. There back teeth look good but it's the canines. And yes they seem to be much more closed mined. I got on there because someone on here said you should join your breed clubs to spreed the word. Well I do think a couple of people have come here but don't post much. I haven't been on there for awhile I need to check on Flash. They all seem to think you know who is the end all. I think sometimes he does have some good stuff but the typos and the long posts, well I don't read most of them, my bad. But I do like some of the people they mean well. Barney'sMom2510: God yes the typos drive me a bit nuts. Randomly posting biased studies does not make you correct. Times are changin people have better more updated info on how to care for and feed your dogs. I was soured after the whole korky kennels post and some of their views on adoptring and making it seem negative. If they could see barney and how shiny he is every other basset we see has a duller dry coat not Barney his gleams all different shades of red he is so gorgeous and healty. __________________ see what the Worm is up to: http://bassetworm.blogspot.com/ Last edited by Wworm; 01-06-2012 at 03:36 PM.

01-06-2012, 04:23 PM	#3 (permalink)
Wworm Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Left Coast Posts: 1,972	Thanks for letting me vent, Pricey. I can see the "Who's the Moderator" thread has a nice end to it now which is good, but see the unresolved issue there and wanted to address it. __________________ see what the Worm is up to: http://bassetworm.blogspot.com/

01-06-2012, 04:26 PM	#4 (permalink)
jaleely Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Ventura, CA Posts: 942	I took a look at that forum last night. I joined...they look like such a nice and open community. Completely not biased, and totally friendly and eager to befriend. My posts haven't showed up today. Maybe it's a weird glitch. I'll have to post what I said after work, but it was just commenting on their great ideas of conversion, their politeness, grace, and just what great darn tootin internet etiquette they have! Makes me want to go on that other forum all the time so I can have posts responded to with knee-jerk reactions, over reactions, assumptions, and complete sweeping statements that contradict other rude statements! Especially the all caps. I know how wrong it is to have an opposing opinion with some people. They should have every right to call names, and get angry, just because you ask them for facts to support their opinion! Opinion...who am i kidding? It's law! I should know that I am just wrong and by responding a day later to a post that directly speaks to me in part of it...well that's just me starting something childishly. I should give into having these people feed my dog for me, like they said. After all, just because it's something they've said, i'm sure my dog will love it...Oh well i forget that my dog is allergic...i'm probably just making that up to be offensive anyway! I think people who can't respond nice at all times, even with their own opinions, and especially WHEN they disagree, should keep to themselves. __________________ Baby Bowsah's Bwog

01-06-2012, 04:37 PM	#6 (permalink)
jaleely Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Ventura, CA Posts: 942	Glad the who is the mod thread calmed down. We have a lot of great people on here to calm things down, and keep a nice flow. It's too bad that the one person i think who needed to realize how badly they like to stir things up and then get defensive didn't learn a single thing. It's allll about how they are a martyr and everyone MUST be against them for some reason. WHy, they're not abrasive or rude at all! It must be eeeeeveryone else! Clearly. The internet is free baby, and you thought people were complaining in Corkey Kennels about slander, go ahead and keep spreading it around about a whole forum and see where that gets you. Maybe you should stay over there where people glorify your opinions and never asky why. Do not come here and try to convert people to any idea you've come up with. ANd if you try, expect that people will disagree....and when they do, be polite. No one said you were boss and we all had to agree. You didn't even try to do things in a way that was open to everyone. You picked one or two people and decided to act offended. IT wasn't even your thread. You were even talking about a diet that wasn't even asked about...the thread was asking about something completely different. Now, before you respond, why don't you use spell check, take down the caps, and reread outloud to yourself what you wrote so you can catch all the in-consistencies and sweeping statements. If you know what those are, as you claim, since you complained about other people doing it, please have the grace to check for it yourself. You'd have a lot less arguments...but then that's your intent, isn't it? __________________ Baby Bowsah's Bwog

01-06-2012, 04:38 PM	#7 (permalink)
jaleely Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Ventura, CA Posts: 942	sigh oh esther, you are doll. I think we all just got very riled up and protective. B and i both want bacon now though. __________________ Baby Bowsah's Bwog

01-06-2012, 04:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
Pricey Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 159	Oh, I dunno what to say wormy, I have had a bit of a hiatus from the forum for a reason I'm pretty sure youre aware of. I did see the vegan thread but did not read it. I must say I am disappointed by this but I am glad you've put a pin in it.

01-06-2012, 04:32 PM	#5 (permalink)
Esther Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 1,041

01-06-2012, 04:46 PM	#9 (permalink)
CatherineM Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Edmonton, Alberta Posts: 692	I didn't read either thread. I guess I'm glad now that I didn't.

01-06-2012, 04:50 PM	#10 (permalink)
Esther Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 1,041	see? it makes the world a better, happier place. and you can eat it raw? (ickie-poo)

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