Puppy v. Senior

Swimming-duck · 12-07-2011, 11:49 AM

I'd just like to hear your thoughts. I don't know if either of these bassets are going to be right for us, so we may end up with neither and continue our search.

If you've read any of my other q's, you might remember that I'm a stay at home mommy with little kiddos of my own and I also care for other's kiddos during the week. So we're looking for a very special basset to join in the daycare fun!

I've come across a 9 year old senior who's been with a family with children of multiple ages. The owners are moving to a rental and are unable to take their dog with them. Currently the dog is still at home with his owner. I found out about him through a rescue organization contact that I've been emailing back and forth with. I will call this guy and ask more questions of course to see if I think it's a fit. I'm not against providing a loving home for a senior until he/she moves on, but I've not had a senior dog before. Do you think a senior would mix well with young kiddos? Are there temperament changes towards the end of life that could cause this to be a bad match? Also, with my oldest kiddo (who is four) I worry about the effect of having a dog, bonding with said dog, and losing him after only a few short years. Plus, if the dog has really bad habits, I would think it would be very very hard to change things at this age?

We've also come across a puppy mill rescue that is about 7 months old. I don't know much about this puppy yet. I'm planning to get more information if we think this is a possibility. Obviously, I'd want to know about this puppy's bite inhibition as that could be an issue if this pup was ripped away from mom too early (I don't know that he was or wasn't - I'm in the process of getting more info).

I could see the advantages of an older, somewhat mellowed with age, dog in our daycare home with young kiddos, toys, etc...But I could also see the advantage of raising a dog from puppyhood with the daycare, kiddos, rules, etc...I admit that I'm leary of a puppy simply because our last puppy attempt did not end well. That was in another post (combo of poor breeding, first time dog owner, wrong training methods). But I do know how I would train this time. I enjoy clicker training and using food rewards and given bassets "going after food like it's a job" I think this could be a great thing with very different results from what we experienced with our first puppy. But I don't know, do you feel like a home with lots of kiddos around all the time would be too much for a puppy. Obviously, we would give puppy a quieter retreat spot in the home as we would an older dog.

I'd love your wisdom on this if you have thoughts one way or another on this. Thank you so much for all of your help!

Barney'spal · 12-07-2011, 12:30 PM

I've had many seniors and from my experience they didn't enjoy alot of confusion, noise, etc. As mellow as they were, they perferred living in a quiet atmosphere. I've never had a basset senior so other people on here will be able to help you. As far as the pup, mine is 9 months old, and would hesitate to put him in that situation....for the kids sake..not his. They are high energy at that age and in their excitement of the kids, which they dearly love, tend to knock them down.

Wworm · 12-07-2011, 12:35 PM

Having a puppy will be like having another toddler in your daycare. How many kids are you watching at a time? And are you the only adult watching everyone? Also, how are you planning to do housetraining? and when the puppy is inside, will he be confined? asking these ??s to have you think about how things will work with a puppy in the picture.

if you want the puppy to be successfully housetrained, you will likely need to follow him around closely for a period of time (months). or tether the puppy to you, so it goes wherever you go. and crate or put him outside or something when you can't watch him. you can confine him to a kitchen space when you can't watch him, but he may go to the bathroom there, and then that doesn't really help with housetraining (ie. he is getting the idea it's ok to go in the house).

even if you are, say, in the kitchen, while the kids & puppy are in the next room & you can see them, the moment you're not watching the puppy, it can have an accident. so i think these are some things to keep in mind. it was very tiring to follow Worm around like a hawk when he was a 4 month old puppy (i mention the age, because he probably has better bladder control at that point than a 2 month old), and he had ~a dozen accidents total, and then was housetrained. took 4-6 weeks to do.

in that sense, a housetrained senior dog is less work. re: personality changes in seniors, prob just depends on the individual dog.

i asked how many kids, because for example, if you are only watching 2-3 kids, that may be doable with a puppy. if you're watching 7 or 8 kids though,
it would be hard to watch all of them and give the puppy enough attention for housetraining, is my guess.

i echo what Barney says, don't know how old the kids are that you are working with, but remember bassets are big dogs. on average weighing 45-65 pounds. Worm is 35 lbs and can easily knock down a 4 or 5 year old kid.

Soundtrack · 12-07-2011, 12:37 PM

It really depends on the senior, their experience with children, their temperament, and their state of health. Much as the senior may love children, as they age they start to have to deal with issues like arthritis, loss of vision and/or hearing, and cognitive dysfunction, any of which can make them less willing to interact with fast-moving, unpredictable kids (especially if they are sore and being bumped hurts them).

And a dog straight from a so-called puppymill could be anything at all, but it likely has missed out on the crucial socializing needed when younger and may also have serious issues, again depending on it's experience and temperament.

If you're going for a rescue, in your case where children are an issue, I'd want young to middle-aged mature dog with a known, stable, child-friendly background.

Kirska · 12-07-2011, 01:32 PM

Senior dogs are usually more suited for quiet lazy households where they can chill in peace. Hence why we only adopt seniors :P

Swimming-duck · 12-07-2011, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundtrack

It really depends on the senior, their experience with children, their temperament, and their state of health. Much as the senior may love children, as they age they start to have to deal with issues like arthritis, loss of vision and/or hearing, and cognitive dysfunction, any of which can make them less willing to interact with fast-moving, unpredictable kids (especially if they are sore and being bumped hurts them).

And a dog straight from a so-called puppymill could be anything at all, but it likely has missed out on the crucial socializing needed when younger and may also have serious issues, again depending on it's experience and temperament.

If you're going for a rescue, in your case where children are an issue, I'd want young to middle-aged mature dog with a known, stable, child-friendly background.

The issues you addressed with a senior is kind of what I was wondering about. I'd worry that as health deteriorates a dog who previously loved and was wonderful with children could start to snap and become unpredictable. Granted, this could easily happen down the road if we start with a 4 or 5 year old, but we'll have quite a few years and I'll likely be doing daycare a lot less then. So it'd be a matter of managing dog's behaviors around my own children.

I was also thinking these thoughts about a puppy mill rescue. I think if we decided to go the puppy route, we'd probably be better off biding our time for now and tracking down good breeders to interview. But I do know that there's at least one or two people on here who have puppy mill rescue puppies and I'd be curious to hear their thoughts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wworm

Having a puppy will be like having another toddler in your daycare. How many kids are you watching at a time? And are you the only adult watching everyone? Also, how are you planning to do housetraining? and when the puppy is inside, will he be confined? asking these ??s to have you think about how things will work with a puppy in the picture.

if you want the puppy to be successfully housetrained, you will likely need to follow him around closely for a period of time (months). or tether the puppy to you, so it goes wherever you go. and crate or put him outside or something when you can't watch him. you can confine him to a kitchen space when you can't watch him, but he may go to the bathroom there, and then that doesn't really help with housetraining (ie. he is getting the idea it's ok to go in the house).

even if you are, say, in the kitchen, while the kids & puppy are in the next room & you can see them, the moment you're not watching the puppy, it can have an accident. so i think these are some things to keep in mind. it was very tiring to follow Worm around like a hawk when he was a 4 month old puppy (i mention the age, because he probably has better bladder control at that point than a 2 month old), and he had ~a dozen accidents total, and then was housetrained. took 4-6 weeks to do.

in that sense, a housetrained senior dog is less work. re: personality changes in seniors, prob just depends on the individual dog.

i asked how many kids, because for example, if you are only watching 2-3 kids, that may be doable with a puppy. if you're watching 7 or 8 kids though,
it would be hard to watch all of them and give the puppy enough attention for housetraining, is my guess.

i echo what Barney says, don't know how old the kids are that you are working with, but remember bassets are big dogs. on average weighing 45-65 pounds. Worm is 35 lbs and can easily knock down a 4 or 5 year old kid.

My home daycare fluctuates depending on the day. The most I have is six or seven - that's a busier day. I usually average four or five. Right now I have one day where I have no children other than my own two. I don't take children on the weekends - so just my own two then also! I am lucky in that my current children are dog -savvy (they have dogs at home). Granted, I don't think that is a license to trust a young child to behave properly with a dog at all times. I firmly believe in supervising dog/young child interactions!

As far as training, I've used crate training in the past. But I think if we go the puppy route again, I really like the idea of tether training (I think - I need to look into it more to be sure it's what I think it is). I want the puppy to be with us, aside from needed rest time and such, as much as possible so that we can build a solid relationship. My understanding is just that dog is on leash attached to you while you train (at least when you aren't able to 100% supervise while pup is running free), so you're right there to constantly direct and train. This seems like it would work well with clicker training. I read about doing this in the book Do Over Dogs (about taking in a rescue/shelter dog). So I would consider this even for an adult. Although, I realize that if I tether adult to myself I'm likely to be knocked over by adult bassets massive size. If I understand tether training correctly you basically allow more freedom as dog is able to handle it and so dog will be on tether less and less as dog learns rules. Is that correct at all? I'd be happy to look into any resources, websites, etc...that you have on this!

So to answer, if we had a puppy I think I'd use a combo of crate and tether to housetrain. Puppy would get more freedom in the evenings (probably confined to whatever room we're in with a baby gate). Daytime with the kiddos would be crate and tether whenever I was busy with other things, but there would definitely be periods where I could supervise puppy with kiddos/play games with puppy/clicker train while puppy had off leash freedom, both inside and outside (we have a fenced backyard). Naptimes would probably be when we worked hard on our sit, stay, down, leave it, trade, etc.....I have good sleepers, so I usually have a good two hours early afternoon.

In regards to daycare, the one area that I know is going to be tricky will be meal and snack times. My kiddos eat on a low table. I think this will be way too tempting for a basset. So I wonder if it'd be best just to do crate time with a stuffed Kong or something like that. I mean, I could continue to tether and try to reward puppy staying away from table, but from reading on this forum I really get the sense that trying to do that would be like beating my head very hard against a brick wall every day. I'm wondering if this is one of those issues where it'd be better to go the easier route, give basset a special treat in crate, and just focus on getting kiddos fed.

I do see that a basset could easily knock over a young child. Regardless of what age basset, training a dog not to jump is important with this age group. So feet on the floor while being pet is something that would be reinforced constantly until basset starts to get it. Honestly, I would do this regardless of what breed I owned - even a smaller dog can knock over a small child with their excitability. I will say that I worked with our last dog on this constantly and I did not have a problem with him jumping on or nipping at my children (and he was a herding breed).

So I don't know if that helps answer questions.

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts on this. We want it to be a great situation for both us and for our furry companion, so it's helpful to have people who live with bassets everyday provide me with wisdom on some of this stuff.

AmyB · 12-07-2011, 03:55 PM

When Spencer was young, he loved kids. As he aged, not so much & in his last few years of his life, he absolutely could not tolerate them. I think they scared him, which made him snappy. So yes, they do change with age. As I stated in a recent thread, when Spencer got old, I had to reduce his contact with people to just a few trusted family members. I'd hesitate with a puppy too. I agree with Soundtrack, a settled, predictable middle-aged dog would be what I'd look for.

eclairs mom · 12-07-2011, 07:54 PM

My Chloe, loved kids all her life, but in her latter years she was less tollerant but never a worry or risk with them. My experience with them as pups is that the energy and exhuberance is going to be a lot to contend with through the age of 3-4.

If I was in your situation myself, I'd be looking for a 3-6 year old, with the right tempremant and prior involvement with kiddies. Its like finding a needle in a haystack I know, but you'll find the right one! Right now I have 24 month old Eclair, rescue, great with kids in a controlled enviroment, if she lived with them on a daily basis would be too exhuberant. Ethel, 3 year old rescue, very gentle and mellow with them, would be great with them on a daily basis.

Swimming-duck · 12-08-2011, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eclairs mom

My Chloe, loved kids all her life, but in her latter years she was less tollerant but never a worry or risk with them. My experience with them as pups is that the energy and exhuberance is going to be a lot to contend with through the age of 3-4.

If I was in your situation myself, I'd be looking for a 3-6 year old, with the right tempremant and prior involvement with kiddies. Its like finding a needle in a haystack I know, but you'll find the right one! Right now I have 24 month old Eclair, rescue, great with kids in a controlled enviroment, if she lived with them on a daily basis would be too exhuberant. Ethel, 3 year old rescue, very gentle and mellow with them, would be great with them on a daily basis.

That's kind of what I was afraid of with a senior. I mean, I could see how failing health, possible pain issues, etc...could make a senior a poor match for our home. I'm so glad I asked.

This is what we're looking for, an adult with known temperament in this age range. The puppy kind of popped up out of nowhere as an option. Per the foster home's description he's kind of a laid back and mellow puppy (is there such a thing???). So that's kind of why he came into our consideration. We'd really like to find a hound that has a proven record with young kiddos. It does feel like searching for a needle in a haystack. And then there's the fact that somehow I feel bad being picky about a rescue dog - like I only want to rescue the right kind of dog. But I keep telling myself that rescuing a dog that's not right for us isn't going to help that dog in the long run. So I'm trying to be patient to find that dog that will enjoy our home, the kiddos, and cuddling with me on the couch in the evenings!

Soundtrack · 12-08-2011, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swimming-duck

And then there's the fact that somehow I feel bad being picky about a rescue dog - like I only want to rescue the right kind of dog. But I keep telling myself that rescuing a dog that's not right for us isn't going to help that dog in the long run.

This is so true! Truly, if the dog is not a match for you and your family, neither of you will be happy in the long run. Don't ever let anyone guilt you into adopting (or buying) a dog because he "needs a home". There are LOTS of dogs that "need homes", keep looking until you find the right one for you, whether rescued or purchased.

12-07-2011, 11:49 AM	#1 (permalink)
Swimming-duck Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: IL Posts: 207	Puppy v. Senior I'd just like to hear your thoughts. I don't know if either of these bassets are going to be right for us, so we may end up with neither and continue our search. If you've read any of my other q's, you might remember that I'm a stay at home mommy with little kiddos of my own and I also care for other's kiddos during the week. So we're looking for a very special basset to join in the daycare fun! I've come across a 9 year old senior who's been with a family with children of multiple ages. The owners are moving to a rental and are unable to take their dog with them. Currently the dog is still at home with his owner. I found out about him through a rescue organization contact that I've been emailing back and forth with. I will call this guy and ask more questions of course to see if I think it's a fit. I'm not against providing a loving home for a senior until he/she moves on, but I've not had a senior dog before. Do you think a senior would mix well with young kiddos? Are there temperament changes towards the end of life that could cause this to be a bad match? Also, with my oldest kiddo (who is four) I worry about the effect of having a dog, bonding with said dog, and losing him after only a few short years. Plus, if the dog has really bad habits, I would think it would be very very hard to change things at this age? We've also come across a puppy mill rescue that is about 7 months old. I don't know much about this puppy yet. I'm planning to get more information if we think this is a possibility. Obviously, I'd want to know about this puppy's bite inhibition as that could be an issue if this pup was ripped away from mom too early (I don't know that he was or wasn't - I'm in the process of getting more info). I could see the advantages of an older, somewhat mellowed with age, dog in our daycare home with young kiddos, toys, etc...But I could also see the advantage of raising a dog from puppyhood with the daycare, kiddos, rules, etc...I admit that I'm leary of a puppy simply because our last puppy attempt did not end well. That was in another post (combo of poor breeding, first time dog owner, wrong training methods). But I do know how I would train this time. I enjoy clicker training and using food rewards and given bassets "going after food like it's a job" I think this could be a great thing with very different results from what we experienced with our first puppy. But I don't know, do you feel like a home with lots of kiddos around all the time would be too much for a puppy. Obviously, we would give puppy a quieter retreat spot in the home as we would an older dog. I'd love your wisdom on this if you have thoughts one way or another on this. Thank you so much for all of your help!

12-07-2011, 12:30 PM	#2 (permalink)
Barney'spal Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: northern michigan Posts: 710	I've had many seniors and from my experience they didn't enjoy alot of confusion, noise, etc. As mellow as they were, they perferred living in a quiet atmosphere. I've never had a basset senior so other people on here will be able to help you. As far as the pup, mine is 9 months old, and would hesitate to put him in that situation....for the kids sake..not his. They are high energy at that age and in their excitement of the kids, which they dearly love, tend to knock them down. __________________ Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend.

12-07-2011, 12:35 PM	#3 (permalink)
Wworm Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Left Coast Posts: 1,972	Having a puppy will be like having another toddler in your daycare. How many kids are you watching at a time? And are you the only adult watching everyone? Also, how are you planning to do housetraining? and when the puppy is inside, will he be confined? asking these ??s to have you think about how things will work with a puppy in the picture. if you want the puppy to be successfully housetrained, you will likely need to follow him around closely for a period of time (months). or tether the puppy to you, so it goes wherever you go. and crate or put him outside or something when you can't watch him. you can confine him to a kitchen space when you can't watch him, but he may go to the bathroom there, and then that doesn't really help with housetraining (ie. he is getting the idea it's ok to go in the house). even if you are, say, in the kitchen, while the kids & puppy are in the next room & you can see them, the moment you're not watching the puppy, it can have an accident. so i think these are some things to keep in mind. it was very tiring to follow Worm around like a hawk when he was a 4 month old puppy (i mention the age, because he probably has better bladder control at that point than a 2 month old), and he had ~a dozen accidents total, and then was housetrained. took 4-6 weeks to do. in that sense, a housetrained senior dog is less work. re: personality changes in seniors, prob just depends on the individual dog. i asked how many kids, because for example, if you are only watching 2-3 kids, that may be doable with a puppy. if you're watching 7 or 8 kids though, it would be hard to watch all of them and give the puppy enough attention for housetraining, is my guess. i echo what Barney says, don't know how old the kids are that you are working with, but remember bassets are big dogs. on average weighing 45-65 pounds. Worm is 35 lbs and can easily knock down a 4 or 5 year old kid. __________________ see what the Worm is up to: http://bassetworm.blogspot.com/ Last edited by Wworm; 12-07-2011 at 12:42 PM.

12-07-2011, 12:37 PM	#4 (permalink)
Soundtrack Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,582	It really depends on the senior, their experience with children, their temperament, and their state of health. Much as the senior may love children, as they age they start to have to deal with issues like arthritis, loss of vision and/or hearing, and cognitive dysfunction, any of which can make them less willing to interact with fast-moving, unpredictable kids (especially if they are sore and being bumped hurts them). And a dog straight from a so-called puppymill could be anything at all, but it likely has missed out on the crucial socializing needed when younger and may also have serious issues, again depending on it's experience and temperament. If you're going for a rescue, in your case where children are an issue, I'd want young to middle-aged mature dog with a known, stable, child-friendly background. __________________ Rosie-Ch Soundtrack Cracklin' Rose CGN AGN RA Am RN TT Melody-Ch Soundtrack Unchained Melody TT Sailor-Ch Soundtrack Expedition Sailor RN TT Chili-Ch Soundtrack Spice Up Your Life Curry-Ch Soundtrack Canadian Brass Pepper-Ch Pennieslogon Living La Vida Loca CGN Vina-Ch Soundtrack Grand Illusion Leila-Ch Soundtrack Almost Paradise Deela-Ch Soundtrack Wink Of An Eye Hermione - Soundtrack Spellbound Eowyn - Soundtrack Rain Dance

12-07-2011, 01:32 PM	#5 (permalink)
Kirska Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 934	Senior dogs are usually more suited for quiet lazy households where they can chill in peace. Hence why we only adopt seniors :P __________________ Mom to Anabelle and Lila, rescued ladies and Harley, Corgi/Beagle/Basset/?? mutt "Saving just one dog won't change the world, but it surely will change the world for that one dog." - Richard C. Call

12-07-2011, 03:55 PM	#7 (permalink)
AmyB Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 1,855	When Spencer was young, he loved kids. As he aged, not so much & in his last few years of his life, he absolutely could not tolerate them. I think they scared him, which made him snappy. So yes, they do change with age. As I stated in a recent thread, when Spencer got old, I had to reduce his contact with people to just a few trusted family members. I'd hesitate with a puppy too. I agree with Soundtrack, a settled, predictable middle-aged dog would be what I'd look for. __________________ Amy, mom to Sadie (ATB, 6/9/06) & Spencer (ATB, 8/19/10) - always in my heart and Clifford (gotcha date 7/2/11).

12-07-2011, 07:54 PM	#8 (permalink)
eclairs mom Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Suburb of Chicago Posts: 411	My Chloe, loved kids all her life, but in her latter years she was less tollerant but never a worry or risk with them. My experience with them as pups is that the energy and exhuberance is going to be a lot to contend with through the age of 3-4. If I was in your situation myself, I'd be looking for a 3-6 year old, with the right tempremant and prior involvement with kiddies. Its like finding a needle in a haystack I know, but you'll find the right one! Right now I have 24 month old Eclair, rescue, great with kids in a controlled enviroment, if she lived with them on a daily basis would be too exhuberant. Ethel, 3 year old rescue, very gentle and mellow with them, would be great with them on a daily basis.

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