henry'smum

Ok so we have husband issues!!!

Husband has taken umbridge to Henry counter surfing,our lounge leads through to the kitchen with a large open archway so we can hear Henrys little toes on the worktop but we cannot see him as he does it.
Husband yells 'Henry NO' and most of the time this works however today it didnt and after 3 times husband got up and smacked Henrys bottom, not hard but hard enough for Hen to decide that he will never speak to him ever again...this will probably last for at least an hour lol!
So, how do you guys discipline your hound when it is necessary. Im not a fan of spanked bottoms and for me i get his attention with a noise and then he usually stops what he is doing.
I am looking for alternatives for husband to use so he feels like he is training Henry but we are really training him not to spank.
Victoria and a very grumpy Henry
PS.The other alternative is to put husband in a crate while Henry does as he pleases but im not sure he will do that lol! Ah well he is off to the desert again soon!

CatherineM

Well, I seem to do a lot of yelling, occasionally growling. That seems to get his attention. I'm currently trying NO in different languages. He seems to respond best in Russian or Latin.

dreamons

Maybe put hubby in the crate for a time out. Also if hubby doesn't like counter surfing just put everything Henry wants on the floor then no more surfing. Maggie and Daisy

klm42005

You are actually able to punish em.....??? wow, I get taken in as soon as I see the face...LOL
Romeo is a major counter surfer and we seem to have the same issue with our daddy too.....although he has a deep gruff voice so usually a down or off works well.......I was told by Woody's trainer to reward the behavior you want...like when they get down (saying off) to give a treat but bassetts are so smart that I think I get played with an up /down game... But it is worth a shot, not disciplining but rewarding when He does get down on command...

Best of luck and Keep us posted,
Kristi, Woody and Romeo

PS: when I gets into trouble wif my dad, the sad face works...at least to win over ma and she makes it all good...just sayin'

Soundtrack

Giving hubby a smack every time he leaves things on the counter would be more effective.

Seriously, though, counter-surfing is best combated by removing opportunity. Smacking is pointless and only teaches the dog to be more sneaky. Counter surfing is like gambling, as long as the dog has hope of a payoff he will keep trying, just like a human will keep playing a slot machine despite punishment (losing money). It is the nature of Bassets to counter surf.

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Wworm

Oh Henry, u ARE sneaky!! i'm reading this thread bout countersurfing tho i'm not supposed to. don't tell. i'm always 4 paws on the ground, but today, i lifted my paws up. this MIGHT be the start of a countersurfing career.

but Hen, do mind ur parents er they's gets mad at ya... (ummm, but i don't always take my own advice)
--hi five,
Worm

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jaleely

Yup, Soundtrack is right again! Remove opportunity. Most effective...though it sucks the one time you forget or leave something too close to the edge. I have never caught him in the act so no punishment works.

We have spanked Bowser like, three times, and each time he thought we were PLAYING and barked at us, ran the other direction, and kept running around. TOtally ineffective.

I take that back, I have scared him ONCE by grabbing the trash can that he had just dumped, and emptied, and his Scruff, and banging the floor with it while i held him. He didn't understand...I THOUGHT.

He got into the trash AGAIN the next week....and when i came downstairs (both of these times he had sneaked out of bed and stolen downstairs to empty the trash) he stayed in his downstairs bed, not looking in my direction. He KNEW. I didn't say a word, i just cleaned it up quietly. He stayed in his bed the WHOLE time. Finally, i got food out to feed him and daisy (usually just going in the back room will make them come running.) I just got it out, and waited. He finally couldn't stand it, and came slowly into the kitchen. I totally did the scruff and trash can thing again. He ran off, then i fed him, and all was better *Lol*

I Have no idea if it worked yet! I really have gotten tired of spoiling him for this past year and a half though. He's so rotten!!! I mean he hasn't done it again, but it's only been a few weeks....lol

Daisy is afraid of a pill bottle when you shake it. Loud noise works with her.

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eclairs mom

A empty soda can with 10 pennies inside that is taped off words for us. Either a quick shake or throwing it in the general direction of the offending hound works for us.

After the stolen chicken incident a few weeks ago, nothing is left on the Island and to combat the "look and see" I draped the scat mat over the area she always jumps up. Just a couple paw zaps and she got the message.

Barney'spal

Discipline?? The only thing that works for me, maybe 75% of the time, is to grab Barneys head, get right in his face and give him a serious NO!!!! I find that if I choose my battles and ignore what I can live with, zero in on what I can't, it eventually accomplishes what I want. I would love to have Barney be completely trained but it's just not going to happen....for me.

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Mikey T

What I see listed as punishments are not punishments at all in a bhehavioral sence. For it to be a punishment it must actual reduce the likelihood of a recurrance if it does not it is not punishment. It is simply and adversive. Must of thie things mentioned yelling shaker cans etc are not even adversive as the dog avoids them they are simply disrtuptive stimuli oin which the dogs say "ehats That!" aqnd stops wehat it is ding for th4e monment. Coupling a disuptive stimuli with teaching an appropriate behavior can be a very effective training tool

Punishment: How not to do it.

[url=http://www.clickandtreat.com/webart02.htm]Jack Palance vs. Fred Astaire[/urtl]
a good explaination on the difference of adverisives and punishment and how most people missues adverses

Teaching Inhibitions : Safe, effective punishment revealed

IMHO there is enough good in the follow article to recommend it but there are a number of truely propsterious statement such as the premise tha impulse control ie inhibition can only be occomplished through punishment.


On Punishment
You will not find anywhere in our workshop manuals, or in our posts, detailed instructions on punishment. I believe punishment is greatly overused. When it is applied, I think it is misapplied (strangely, my second-most objection usually is that it is not severe enough. Of course, my first-most objection is that it was used at all in the first place. I said it sounds strange). I won't instruct people in punishment techniques because I do not want to be a party to misapplication of a perfectly good technique. If someone misapplied positive reinforcement, the animal is likely not to be directly hurt too much. The same can't be said for punishment.
In nature, animals face aversive situations frequently, possibly more often than they have the opportunity for reinforcement. It is often pointed out that animals learn quickly to avoid aversive stimuli, and that aversives tend to generalize more than reinforcements - likely true.
But, having said that, and even accepting the likelihood that it is true, animals do come equipped with a certain level of built-in resistance to the influence of aversive stimuli. A pup that is punished for nipping at a momma's nipple too hard does not abandon the nipple. The pup might be a bit tentative while nursing for a bit, but gets over it, and there is usually less nipping at the teat that feeds it. I watched a coyote pup fall into a cold spring and come out whining and shivering. However, the pup was soon back trying to catch the minnows that attracted it there in the first place.
Over a wild animal's life, it meets lots of aversives in the process of trying to earn a living and find a mate, and do all of the other things that that wild animal normally do. Trainers did not invent aversives. It just so happens that when we, or another organism, applies an aversive, we call it punishment.

...
My personal view is that virtually all animal training would profit from the use of positive reinforcement. There are a very few circumstances in animal training where the addition of punishment is, in my opinion, extremely worthwhile, and possibly essential. There are a few more situations where adding punishment would likely be very useful. In those rare circumstances where punishment offers potential benefit, it is always to stop some behavior that could cause harm to the animal, a human, or damage or destroy property. In my opinion, and just as examples, this would exclude the use of positive punishment in the training of sport or obedience training and severely restrict punishment in the training of service dogs.[/quote]



AVSAB Position Statement
The Use of Punishment for Behavior Modification in Animals
American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior