Walking...Or not

DaniyPatito · 10-28-2011, 09:52 AM

Okay so I did search on this and couldn´t find anything. Patito is killing me slowly on our walks...He feels the need to sit and stare at people, other dogs, chickens, cows, the meat shop that is only open on sunday etc. I think what I have been doing has just been making it worse so I am asking for help.

Normally when he stops I say come and if he does I give him a treat and we start walking again, but now he will come the five feet then plop right back down again.

I have also tried walking away and seeing if he will follow this use to always work but not really anymore...It has turned into a stare off from about a hundred feet I do not give in I just wait until he comes but that can take a long time. OR even worse he uses that chance to chase whatever he has been staring at.

I also have been praising him a lot when he is walking how I want him to and giving him treats.

Eventually an hour into what should be a twenty minute walk he gets picked up and taken home because I have to get to work.

At this point I feel he is smart and possibly just playing me but I don´t know what I am doing to encourage that behavior.

Also unless he walks all the way home he does not get a treat when we get there.

PLEASE HELP!

Barney'spal · 10-28-2011, 10:11 AM

LOL..wish I could help but.....I went through the very same thing. I had people stop and want to help thinking the dog was sick or dead. One time I had to go home and get car...fortunate that I had someone walking with me. He has gotten better....I gave up giving treats as he was really milking the system...I now lift him up and as soon as he stands I tell him what a good dog he is. I'd say he is 85% better..maybe it's just something they have to grow out of. I'm right with you in the frustrating feeling. Hang in there..think its just a phase...at least I hope so.

bubbad · 10-28-2011, 10:17 AM

Do you have him on a leash? If not ,why not? If he is free to chase something he is free to get hit,run over,ie killed. If you have a leash and collar on him you can control where he goes if he goes.If he doesn't want to move give a little tug to see if that starts him up ,if it doesn't, stand at the end of a taunt leash so he feels preasure but you are not pulling him use the treat to get him to move forward and keep walking. Put the leash on at home and let him run around with it on ,under supervision,don't let him chew on it. Good Luck.

Mikey T · 10-28-2011, 12:25 PM

what is the purpose of the walk. If exercise for the dog wel don;t bother. A walk at human pace or basset sniffy pace does not constitue exercise. mental stimulation for a sniff basset but not exercise. Fetch or tug of war are much better energy burners.

As I recall patitio is like 12 weeks old expecting a 20 minute continious walk is unrealistic you need to slowly build endurence in a puppy. and by push the puppy to a breaking point you can create bad habits that are difficult to correct latter on. If the puppy is left wanting more on the walk when you stop is better than being exhusted when you stop

charady2 · 10-28-2011, 12:59 PM

I wish I could get mine to stop, he wants to go full force running anymore! He does stop to smell stuff and when I get tired of waiting I give a quick tug on the leash and he follows me finally. But I was hoping for a nice, slow paced walk-not being yanked down the road by a puppy lol!

Wworm · 10-28-2011, 01:33 PM

Good ??-- this happens w/Worm too. Barney is right on! we've been asked-- "Is your dog's leg broken?" broken????? ha, just stubborn...!

Worm was milking his treats too ("wuz not!").
Now we play this game when he does that, i throw a tasty treat (for him, just one piece of his usual kibble...) far enough away from him that he needs to get up to eat it. We also play this game all the way down the hallway. Throwing a piece or two of kibble ahead of us-- he's learned to find them w/his eyes & nose. and repeat, repeat, repeat... that keeps him from stopping or flat basseting in the hallway...

good luck w/Patito.. and yeah, like Bubbad says, pleeeaz make sure he's safe..

DaniyPatito · 10-28-2011, 04:11 PM

Ok thanks! He is young, we aren´t going fast I just want him to be able to get out and see other people and things but at the same time do not have the time to watch a cow for an hour lol. He is on the leash when he sometimes goes after the chickens is when I try the walk away see if he will follow thing...also we have one bus an hour pass and maybe one car and because of the roads you can a. hear them from far away and b. they go so slow.

I guess maybe it is better to go on short walks or just wait for him then MikeyT?

houndmomma · 10-28-2011, 04:24 PM

You mentioned that you have to “get to work” and he only gets a treat when he walks all the way home. By the time he gets home he has no idea what or why you’re giving him the treat – dogs don’t have that kind of memory. If you want to give a treat – I would give a treat but you’re not teaching him to walk by holding it back. Also, I wouldn’t blend in “training” when you’re watching the clock. It should be done in a relaxed way where it’s fun for you and the pup with a lot of positive reinforcements. With some pups it’s a good idea to get some of their energy out of them before starting the actual training – at least in the beginning. Then once you get going you want to train in different situations – its one thing to get them to follow commands in the comfort of your home and another to follow in a crowd of people or a noisy environment.

Because my hubby is allergic to training our dogs or learning commands – I let him start walking our new pups for a little fun and to help the bonding with our other dogs. So I don’t have the problem of a new pup not wanting to move – they’re enjoying being part of the pack.

I’ve just started working with Mabel on her {Sit, Stay, Heel and Free} commands. It’s a marked difference when she walks with me and when she walks with my hubby. With me she’s at my side looking up at me or looking directly in front at where she’s going. The “free” command – allows her to go and sniff away – or as I call it “reading the paper”

If you have a place around you that offers training it might be a good idea to do some research and get yourself and your puppy in for a class or two. Even though I’ve been training dogs for years – I still take my pups in for training so my hubby and the puppy can work together (something about a spouse – the trainer can say the same things I do and he only hears it from them – so… we go to class) I think the first or second week of December, Mabel and hubby start their first class.

You’ll find once they “learn” all the commands they never forget them either – Funny story – when our Rickie was going through training it was in January so really cold outside here in Chicago – so I was doing his sit, stay and heel in the house. I would start in the kitchen down to the family room down to the end of the room and around back to the kitchen then down the hall through the living room into the dining room and back to the kitchen over and over again – so one night I’m working with him on heel, sit, stay and so on and I thought I heard something behind me – I look back and see Flash and Lucy both doing a heel, sit and stay a few feet behind – Laughed my ass off – I keep going after I saw them for a long time and they keep it up.

Oh, one last thought – what kind of collar do you have on your pup? I’ve posted a photo of the one I use for all my dogs where you can get a good look at the collar. It’s a slip collar. I’ve found that the ones that buckle on their neck they can slip out of when working with them – or I should say – hubby had them slip out when he was walking them. These go over their head and work like a choker – so you only have to give the leash a quick tug to get their attention without hurting them and they don’t slip out of them. Another thing I like about them is I can have it looser on them for added comfort.

Sorry about such a long post again – it appears I’m not good at giving bullet points but have to tell a story

Jen~

Mikey T · 10-28-2011, 05:58 PM

Quote:

I guess maybe it is better to go on short walks or just wait for him then MikeyT?

it depends on the purpose of the walk/

1. on a puppy i do not like collars if I felt ambishious i would find the ling but basical it is a study on thoath and cervical injuries in dog and it is a tied to har hard if any leash corrections were given not to the type of collar worn so contrary to popular opinion flat buckle collars are not safer than chock collars etc. for young pups I would use a harnes or if you need some powere assist then somthing like a sporn no-pull harnesss,

IF purpose of the walk is socialization the I would let the dog set the pace. If the purpose is to train the dog to walk with you ie heel than I would never attempt to start this training in a setting as distraction as out side. You do this inside only a coulde step at a time rweard as mention above. If you take treat with you on a wak and drop them to the dog only when it is moving briskly wou will have a cometeping reward for the sniffing snails pace. Depending on whatthe dog values more you may get more speed out of him

chucking Food

Dogs Do What Works

Reliability of Behavior, Desensitization

Competing Reinforcers
ignore references to NRM (non-reward markers)sort of the oposite of a click telling the dog nope that will not get you a reward.they rarly work like they are supose to because they were never trained proplerly in the first placeand in general as the article points out are really not needed

You need to consider things in the envrionment not only as distraction for the dog but also they are potential reward and the dog can be rewarding itself when seeking them out or you can start to control acess to them and use them to reward the behavior you want. Dog is walk briskly, run to an ares he general like to sniff or look and let him.,but like i said I would not start leash training in a area that distractions are limited. . IF the walks walks are to socialize the dog then it becomes your job to keep the dog from pulling etc by going his pace. of course in the context of keep the dog safe. If you are not pulling or alway picking the dog up when he refuses to move then picking the dog up to move things along is not a problem do not create a consitent link in the dogs behavior to get to be carried.

On thing to keep in mind basset unlike other breeds act to stres negatively, by negatively I don;t me badly but the withdraw ibehaviors use negative as something is removed and that is what most baset do under stress. the stop interacting, the stop moving ie flat basset etc, giving the dog time to recover is not a bad thing IMHO most of the time the flat basset syndrome is more about stress, and or manipulation than it ever is about being tired. see what happens to that exgauset dog when a rabbit runs by.

You Get What You Reinforce, Not What You (Necessarily) Want

Have Your Earned Your Dog's Attention?

Quote:

But, I then came to the RATE OF REINFORCEMENT, and what I said was that the dogs were a reflection of the trainers (or, rather, the behavior of the dogs was simply a reflection of the behavior of the trainers). I told them that, to me, they were not seriously training, and that the dogs were not seriously training either. The dogs should hit the ground running, and everything, including the trainers, should be double time or stopped, for rest. When resting, the dogs should be moved somewhere else. Socialializing, discussions, even training discussions should be held outside the area. The dog's playtime should be somewhere else. I went on in more detail, but you folks get the idea.

...that one thing we try to get across very early in our intro class is learning to focus and keep things moving at a high rate, including the pace of reinforcement. We are used to moving slowly. We forget sometimes that we set the pace. When we slow down, the dog will slow down. When we speed up, don't expect the dog to suddenly speed up too. The dog has already discovered another world that, for the time being, is more worthwhile paying attention to than you. It is not the dog's fault. We let it happen, maybe even encouraged it.
So, try working in VERY short, VERY fast bursts for a while. When not working, move IMMEDIATELY out of the work area. When restarting, start with a bang, and keep the dog moving. The slightest hint of distraction, move the dog out of the work area, find a wall and bang your head three times, and then go back to work, double-time.

Hence why I would train in a low distraction area high rate of reward first before ever contemplating trying to train the dog proper leash habits outside in a very distracting atmosphere you have to slowly work through distraction to achieve a reliable behavior. Training Start off in a highlyn distractive atmosphere is doomed to failutre

loose leash walking
Just one note read the article on chucking food and you will see it is not necesary to use a cklicker but simply deliver a food treat to the dog.

Loose Leash Walking: The Total Picture

Quote:

Puppies (0-6 mos.)

Puppies are brand new to the world. Literally. Everything is new to them. They have little or no history -- good or bad -- related to what you want. They also have a very short attention span.
With puppies, I've found the best method is to have a few steps of highly reinforced loose leash and attention followed by a lot of playing/sniffing/exploring. Then a few more exciting, highly reinforced steps followed by more playing/sniffing/exploring.
Think of it as "on" and "off" -- and have cues for each. I use "with me" and "go play."
This isn't a gift you're giving your dog. It's necessary. Your dog must learn about the world around him. It's part of his socialization. If he doesn't experience lots of things at this critical time, he's likely to be fearful and insecure later.

DaniyPatito · 10-29-2011, 04:10 PM

Thank you for sharing your experience and advice!

MikeyT would it be confusing to him if some of the walks were for training and some were to just get him out in the world?

10-28-2011, 09:52 AM	#1 (permalink)
DaniyPatito Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: San Marcos Guatemala Posts: 155	Walking...Or not Okay so I did search on this and couldn´t find anything. Patito is killing me slowly on our walks...He feels the need to sit and stare at people, other dogs, chickens, cows, the meat shop that is only open on sunday etc. I think what I have been doing has just been making it worse so I am asking for help. Normally when he stops I say come and if he does I give him a treat and we start walking again, but now he will come the five feet then plop right back down again. I have also tried walking away and seeing if he will follow this use to always work but not really anymore...It has turned into a stare off from about a hundred feet I do not give in I just wait until he comes but that can take a long time. OR even worse he uses that chance to chase whatever he has been staring at. I also have been praising him a lot when he is walking how I want him to and giving him treats. Eventually an hour into what should be a twenty minute walk he gets picked up and taken home because I have to get to work. At this point I feel he is smart and possibly just playing me but I don´t know what I am doing to encourage that behavior. Also unless he walks all the way home he does not get a treat when we get there. PLEASE HELP!

10-28-2011, 01:33 PM	#6 (permalink)
Wworm Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Left Coast Posts: 1,972	Good ??-- this happens w/Worm too. Barney is right on! we've been asked-- "Is your dog's leg broken?" broken????? ha, just stubborn...! Worm was milking his treats too ("wuz not!"). Now we play this game when he does that, i throw a tasty treat (for him, just one piece of his usual kibble...) far enough away from him that he needs to get up to eat it. We also play this game all the way down the hallway. Throwing a piece or two of kibble ahead of us-- he's learned to find them w/his eyes & nose. and repeat, repeat, repeat... that keeps him from stopping or flat basseting in the hallway... good luck w/Patito.. and yeah, like Bubbad says, pleeeaz make sure he's safe.. __________________ see what the Worm is up to: http://bassetworm.blogspot.com/

10-28-2011, 04:24 PM	#8 (permalink)
houndmomma Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Chicago Posts: 503	You mentioned that you have to “get to work” and he only gets a treat when he walks all the way home. By the time he gets home he has no idea what or why you’re giving him the treat – dogs don’t have that kind of memory. If you want to give a treat – I would give a treat but you’re not teaching him to walk by holding it back. Also, I wouldn’t blend in “training” when you’re watching the clock. It should be done in a relaxed way where it’s fun for you and the pup with a lot of positive reinforcements. With some pups it’s a good idea to get some of their energy out of them before starting the actual training – at least in the beginning. Then once you get going you want to train in different situations – its one thing to get them to follow commands in the comfort of your home and another to follow in a crowd of people or a noisy environment. Because my hubby is allergic to training our dogs or learning commands – I let him start walking our new pups for a little fun and to help the bonding with our other dogs. So I don’t have the problem of a new pup not wanting to move – they’re enjoying being part of the pack. I’ve just started working with Mabel on her {Sit, Stay, Heel and Free} commands. It’s a marked difference when she walks with me and when she walks with my hubby. With me she’s at my side looking up at me or looking directly in front at where she’s going. The “free” command – allows her to go and sniff away – or as I call it “reading the paper” If you have a place around you that offers training it might be a good idea to do some research and get yourself and your puppy in for a class or two. Even though I’ve been training dogs for years – I still take my pups in for training so my hubby and the puppy can work together (something about a spouse – the trainer can say the same things I do and he only hears it from them – so… we go to class) I think the first or second week of December, Mabel and hubby start their first class. You’ll find once they “learn” all the commands they never forget them either – Funny story – when our Rickie was going through training it was in January so really cold outside here in Chicago – so I was doing his sit, stay and heel in the house. I would start in the kitchen down to the family room down to the end of the room and around back to the kitchen then down the hall through the living room into the dining room and back to the kitchen over and over again – so one night I’m working with him on heel, sit, stay and so on and I thought I heard something behind me – I look back and see Flash and Lucy both doing a heel, sit and stay a few feet behind – Laughed my ass off – I keep going after I saw them for a long time and they keep it up. Oh, one last thought – what kind of collar do you have on your pup? I’ve posted a photo of the one I use for all my dogs where you can get a good look at the collar. It’s a slip collar. I’ve found that the ones that buckle on their neck they can slip out of when working with them – or I should say – hubby had them slip out when he was walking them. These go over their head and work like a choker – so you only have to give the leash a quick tug to get their attention without hurting them and they don’t slip out of them. Another thing I like about them is I can have it looser on them for added comfort. Sorry about such a long post again – it appears I’m not good at giving bullet points but have to tell a story Jen~ __________________ Momma to Lucy age 12 ~ Basset Hound Momma to Rickie age 5 ~ Shi-Poo (don’t tell him though – he thinks he’s a hound dog) Momma to Mabel age -1 ~ Basset Hound Momma to Flash – RIP 2000 ~ 2011 – Gone in body but with me in spirit ~ You will live on forever in my heart baby ~ Je t'aime

10-28-2011, 10:11 AM	#2 (permalink)
Barney'spal Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: northern michigan Posts: 710	LOL..wish I could help but.....I went through the very same thing. I had people stop and want to help thinking the dog was sick or dead. One time I had to go home and get car...fortunate that I had someone walking with me. He has gotten better....I gave up giving treats as he was really milking the system...I now lift him up and as soon as he stands I tell him what a good dog he is. I'd say he is 85% better..maybe it's just something they have to grow out of. I'm right with you in the frustrating feeling. Hang in there..think its just a phase...at least I hope so.

10-28-2011, 10:17 AM	#3 (permalink)
bubbad Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Boiling Springs,Pa Posts: 1,347	Do you have him on a leash? If not ,why not? If he is free to chase something he is free to get hit,run over,ie killed. If you have a leash and collar on him you can control where he goes if he goes.If he doesn't want to move give a little tug to see if that starts him up ,if it doesn't, stand at the end of a taunt leash so he feels preasure but you are not pulling him use the treat to get him to move forward and keep walking. Put the leash on at home and let him run around with it on ,under supervision,don't let him chew on it. Good Luck.

10-28-2011, 12:25 PM	#4 (permalink)
Mikey T Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: West Warrwick, RI Posts: 7,729	what is the purpose of the walk. If exercise for the dog wel don;t bother. A walk at human pace or basset sniffy pace does not constitue exercise. mental stimulation for a sniff basset but not exercise. Fetch or tug of war are much better energy burners. As I recall patitio is like 12 weeks old expecting a 20 minute continious walk is unrealistic you need to slowly build endurence in a puppy. and by push the puppy to a breaking point you can create bad habits that are difficult to correct latter on. If the puppy is left wanting more on the walk when you stop is better than being exhusted when you stop

10-28-2011, 12:59 PM	#5 (permalink)
charady2 Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Iowa Posts: 184	I wish I could get mine to stop, he wants to go full force running anymore! He does stop to smell stuff and when I get tired of waiting I give a quick tug on the leash and he follows me finally. But I was hoping for a nice, slow paced walk-not being yanked down the road by a puppy lol!

10-28-2011, 04:11 PM	#7 (permalink)
DaniyPatito Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: San Marcos Guatemala Posts: 155	Ok thanks! He is young, we aren´t going fast I just want him to be able to get out and see other people and things but at the same time do not have the time to watch a cow for an hour lol. He is on the leash when he sometimes goes after the chickens is when I try the walk away see if he will follow thing...also we have one bus an hour pass and maybe one car and because of the roads you can a. hear them from far away and b. they go so slow. I guess maybe it is better to go on short walks or just wait for him then MikeyT?

10-29-2011, 04:10 PM	#10 (permalink)
DaniyPatito Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: San Marcos Guatemala Posts: 155	Thank you for sharing your experience and advice! MikeyT would it be confusing to him if some of the walks were for training and some were to just get him out in the world?

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