RAW Diet?

barneysmom2510 · 10-12-2011, 08:22 PM

Does anyone feed a raw diet? Sorry if this has been asked alot I looked but could not find any recent threads but I could have missed them.

Mikey T · 10-12-2011, 10:00 PM

there is a yahoo group for this ie "naturalbasset"

that said IMHO it is one of the most overhype and decietful in it portrayal and lack of harm by its advocates that to me border on malpractice when advocated by a holistic vet. Coming from agility I know many people that started out feed raw say ing how great it was but once the dog got older and it imummune system was not so strong could no longer efectively deal with the extra bacteral load from this diet. and promptly remove all their dog from the diet. and all the problem cleared up quicly. sores etc around the mouth, diarrhea etc. This say nothing about the danger of bones etc. And the benefits of a raw diet can not quantified and all the studies done that support a benefit are seriously seriously flawed.

Raw Meat: A Dangerous Fad

Raw Meat Diets for Cats and Dogs?
An Assessment of the Research and Arguments Related to the Advisability of Feeding Raw Meat-Based Diets to Cats and Dogs

BARF Diet Mythology

Vet corner
By Dr. Joanne Reichertz DVM

Problems with Raw-Meat Diets
Narda G. Robinson, DO, DVM, MS.

and the limited peer review studies
Raw food diets in companion animals: A critical review

Preliminary assessment of the risk of Salmonella infection in dogs fed raw chicken diets

Bacteriological evaluation of commercial canine and feline raw diets

Quote:

On one Website supporting a commercial raw diet, it is claimed that “The FDA has stated that Salmonella is not harmful to dogs” (10), which is, to the authors’ knowledge, an unfounded and misleading statement. One major proponent of raw diets has suggested that bacterial pathogens that may be found in raw foods are not able to cause disease in the dog because of the unique adaptation of its intestinal tract (2). There is no evidence to support this supposition and cases of salmonellosis in dogs and cats fed homemade raw diets have been reported (3,11,12).

...Twenty-five raw diets from 8 different manufacturers were evaluated. ...Coliforms were present in all diets, ranging from 3.5 × 103 to 9.4 × 106 CFU/g (mean value 8.9 × 105, s = 1.9 × 106). The freeze-dried sample had the lowest coliform count, while coliform levels were in excess of 1 × 106 CFU/g in 4 diets. Escherichia coli was identified in 16 (64%) diets in both direct and enrichment cultures in all cases in which it was present. Monophasic S. Typhimurium were detected in 5 (20%) diets, all after enrichment culture. Meat sources from diets containing Salmonella spp. were beef, lamb, quail, chicken, and ostrich. Campylobacter spp. were not isolated from any sample. Sporeforming bacteria were identified from 4 (16%) samples on direct culture and from 25 (100%) samples using enriched medium. Clostridium perfringens was identified in 5 (20%) samples. Clostridium difficile was isolated on direct culture from 1 turkey-based food. Genes encoding for C. difficile toxins A and B were detected in vitro, and the ribotype of this isolate was indistinguishable from a type that has been identified in association with diarrheic disease in horses, dogs, and humans (L. Arroyo, unpublished data). Staphylococcus aureus was isolated from 1 (4%) diet when enrichment techniques were used.

Soundtrack · 10-13-2011, 06:13 AM

I've done both raw and cooked, to me it's not so important whether the food is raw or not but whether you are feeding a varied diet that is balanced over time consisting of real, whole, healthy foods. I've been pleased with the results when feeding homemade but don't really have the time or $$$$$ to do it for the pack so it's generally restricted to someone with an issue that would benefit from better nutrition.

I suggest doing a lot of research into canine nutrition before trying it. You might want to start with DogAware.com: Diet & Health Info for Man's Best Friend (she has links to actual studies) and continue from there. Definitely read studies with a critical eye (both pro and con) as lots of studies are quite flawed (or the authors reach a different conclusion than what the results actually indicate) - I follow the blog of Dr Michael Eades and he frequently pulls studies apart to show their flaws.

barneysmom2510 · 10-13-2011, 07:41 AM

Thanks I am going to check out all those links. I have done this before woth my dacshunds and it has had amazing results with their teeth and helped daisy with her allergies. I just have never stuck with it for long. I know I cannot home cook meals for four dogs I will be living in te kitchen.

Mikey T · 10-13-2011, 10:33 AM

Quote:

I am going to check out all those links

All those links are related to the danger of a raw diet if looking for the por side you are going to have to look else wher then those links

as for canine nutrition a good place to start is Canine Nutrition for Dummies by Chris Zink she is a Vet and performance dog particpant/trainer.

barneysmom2510 · 10-13-2011, 03:52 PM

I saw a new vet today to treat barney for his diarrhea with a more holistic approach. They are going to send out another fecal to see if anything else is going on. He is going to be on a chicken/rice diet for a few weeks in a few days I will ad some high quality wet food.He is not extremely thin but he does need to put on some weight but the diarrhea has been preventing this. The vet gave me some slippery elm and some probiotics so hopefully we can get his tummy straightened out. this all has to be done before I can consider changing to a raw diet.
I like to read both sides I have done RAW in the past with my dacshunds I first started them ten years ago on it and have tried to stick with it a few more times.

jaleely · 10-13-2011, 04:49 PM

did the vet suggest vitman suppliments and electrolights?

barneysmom2510 · 10-13-2011, 05:27 PM

for now just probiotics and sliippery elm. He is not dehydrated at all his poop is more like a cow pie there is no liquid or mucous in it. His little system has been through so much especially having all those vaccines when he was so sick. She said giardia can be tough to get rid of. I have never given any of my dogs supplements or vitamins. I have been researching it a bit so when things settle with barney I will see if a vitamin is necessary. He did have a partially solid poop after the chicken and rice so his system is just having a hard time adjusting to anything but that. he sure does not act like he is sick he is more active than ever.

jaleely · 10-14-2011, 01:39 AM

i really, really hate how vets pile on the vaccines in situations like this. i guess they figure he's already going through stuff, so it can't get worse *rolls eyes*
I'm so glad to see that he's active though. Probiotics are great! I don't actually know anything about slippery elm. And yay for solid poops! hehe

barneysmom2510 · 10-14-2011, 07:57 AM

Thats why I switched vets there is no way he should have had all that at once. Plus I am not big on vaccinating older dogs. This vet does each shot singly so no more 5 in1. I guess slippery elm is what people also use it is holistic I have never tried holistic medicine but I will give it a shot. His new fecal comes back today maybe he will need another round of panacur it seems like the food is what keeps causing his issues. With chicken and rice his poo get solid right away kiblle he gets diarrhea. Who knows I just feel bad when he bleeds when he goes he must be very sore. He is definitely more active than ever he's my little terror esecially with paper.

10-12-2011, 08:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
barneysmom2510 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Rockport ma Posts: 633	RAW Diet? Does anyone feed a raw diet? Sorry if this has been asked alot I looked but could not find any recent threads but I could have missed them. __________________ -LISA Mini daschunds Sadie Lou & Daisy dukes Chihuahua Lola Bassett Hound Barney

10-13-2011, 06:13 AM	#3 (permalink)
Soundtrack Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,581	I've done both raw and cooked, to me it's not so important whether the food is raw or not but whether you are feeding a varied diet that is balanced over time consisting of real, whole, healthy foods. I've been pleased with the results when feeding homemade but don't really have the time or $$$$$ to do it for the pack so it's generally restricted to someone with an issue that would benefit from better nutrition. I suggest doing a lot of research into canine nutrition before trying it. You might want to start with DogAware.com: Diet & Health Info for Man's Best Friend (she has links to actual studies) and continue from there. Definitely read studies with a critical eye (both pro and con) as lots of studies are quite flawed (or the authors reach a different conclusion than what the results actually indicate) - I follow the blog of Dr Michael Eades and he frequently pulls studies apart to show their flaws. __________________ Rosie-Ch Soundtrack Cracklin' Rose CGN AGN RA Am RN TT Melody-Ch Soundtrack Unchained Melody TT Sailor-Ch Soundtrack Expedition Sailor RN TT Chili-Ch Soundtrack Spice Up Your Life Curry-Ch Soundtrack Canadian Brass Pepper-Ch Pennieslogon Living La Vida Loca CGN Vina-Ch Soundtrack Grand Illusion Leila-Ch Soundtrack Almost Paradise Deela-Ch Soundtrack Wink Of An Eye Hermione - Soundtrack Spellbound Eowyn - Soundtrack Rain Dance Last edited by Soundtrack; 10-13-2011 at 06:18 AM.

10-13-2011, 07:41 AM	#4 (permalink)
barneysmom2510 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Rockport ma Posts: 633	Thanks I am going to check out all those links. I have done this before woth my dacshunds and it has had amazing results with their teeth and helped daisy with her allergies. I just have never stuck with it for long. I know I cannot home cook meals for four dogs I will be living in te kitchen. __________________ -LISA Mini daschunds Sadie Lou & Daisy dukes Chihuahua Lola Bassett Hound Barney

10-13-2011, 03:52 PM	#6 (permalink)
barneysmom2510 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Rockport ma Posts: 633	I saw a new vet today to treat barney for his diarrhea with a more holistic approach. They are going to send out another fecal to see if anything else is going on. He is going to be on a chicken/rice diet for a few weeks in a few days I will ad some high quality wet food.He is not extremely thin but he does need to put on some weight but the diarrhea has been preventing this. The vet gave me some slippery elm and some probiotics so hopefully we can get his tummy straightened out. this all has to be done before I can consider changing to a raw diet. I like to read both sides I have done RAW in the past with my dacshunds I first started them ten years ago on it and have tried to stick with it a few more times. __________________ -LISA Mini daschunds Sadie Lou & Daisy dukes Chihuahua Lola Bassett Hound Barney

10-13-2011, 04:49 PM	#7 (permalink)
jaleely Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Ventura, CA Posts: 942	did the vet suggest vitman suppliments and electrolights? __________________ Baby Bowsah's Bwog

10-13-2011, 05:27 PM	#8 (permalink)
barneysmom2510 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Rockport ma Posts: 633	for now just probiotics and sliippery elm. He is not dehydrated at all his poop is more like a cow pie there is no liquid or mucous in it. His little system has been through so much especially having all those vaccines when he was so sick. She said giardia can be tough to get rid of. I have never given any of my dogs supplements or vitamins. I have been researching it a bit so when things settle with barney I will see if a vitamin is necessary. He did have a partially solid poop after the chicken and rice so his system is just having a hard time adjusting to anything but that. he sure does not act like he is sick he is more active than ever. __________________ -LISA Mini daschunds Sadie Lou & Daisy dukes Chihuahua Lola Bassett Hound Barney

10-14-2011, 01:39 AM	#9 (permalink)
jaleely Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Ventura, CA Posts: 942	i really, really hate how vets pile on the vaccines in situations like this. i guess they figure he's already going through stuff, so it can't get worse rolls eyes I'm so glad to see that he's active though. Probiotics are great! I don't actually know anything about slippery elm. And yay for solid poops! hehe __________________ Baby Bowsah's Bwog

10-14-2011, 07:57 AM	#10 (permalink)
barneysmom2510 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Rockport ma Posts: 633	Thats why I switched vets there is no way he should have had all that at once. Plus I am not big on vaccinating older dogs. This vet does each shot singly so no more 5 in1. I guess slippery elm is what people also use it is holistic I have never tried holistic medicine but I will give it a shot. His new fecal comes back today maybe he will need another round of panacur it seems like the food is what keeps causing his issues. With chicken and rice his poo get solid right away kiblle he gets diarrhea. Who knows I just feel bad when he bleeds when he goes he must be very sore. He is definitely more active than ever he's my little terror esecially with paper. __________________ -LISA Mini daschunds Sadie Lou & Daisy dukes Chihuahua Lola Bassett Hound Barney

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