HumphreyB

Long time lurker now looking for help.

We have had Humphrey for about a month (he's three months old at the moment). We are doing really well on the potty-training and training in general. He knows sit, stay and come although it is hard to get him to do anything if he doesn't want to do it. Stubborn as usual

One of the major problems is biting. He gets more excited when we yelp (like a littermate) which causes him to bite more and harder and the shaker can makes him more aggressive as well. One of the vets suggested we hold our hand over the top of his muzzle and slap our hand (I guess to mimic hitting them) but that didn't seem like a good idea at all. We also tried the standing still and crossing our arms so we are stopping play and ignoring him but he will start to bite our ankles and feet and then when we try to leave, he will follow and the biting continues. We tried to be consistent but as soon as it worsened the behavior we tried something new. Is this a bad idea or should we have stuck to it? (A few times we left him alone but trying to get him into a room alone also results in more biting)

Another big problem is that whenever he is in his bed (which is in the lounge) and we get up to leave, he will perk up and watch us and if we leave the lounge completely, he will get up and follow us to the kitchen (where we are usually going) where he searches around for food or he will follow us and then go to the kitchen. The problem here is that it happens almost everyday. I think maybe desensitizing him to us leaving, like going out and then coming back in will fix this. I'm not sure though.

He also has a serious obsession with food. Whenever he hears a rustle like a crisp's packet, he will run into the kitchen and sit down expecting food. He also does the same thing when he hears the pantry cupboard opening. Even if he is sound asleep, the dog will get up, run to the kitchen and search for food or expect food. It is a little annoying when you are trying to make yourself breakfast or just getting a drink and instead of him sleeping, he is sitting there looking innocent. We usually make him go out of the kitchen but that doesn't seem like it is solving the problem. So any help here would be very appreciated.

He will also run to the kitchen every time we bring him back inside from being outside for potty. He makes a beeline for it and usually we have to run after him and turn him around. Of course this is even after he has drunk water and been fed. He just always goes there even if he is perfectly content. Its for food most definitely. So maybe train him to not go there? maybe....

I thought the problem might be because he isn't getting enough food as we feed him 3/4 a cup of dry food (at each meal, three times a day) and sometimes on top of that he gets treats and whatnot so really a cup might be the normal amount (The food is a mixture of Nutro Natural Choice and Hills Science Diet. I know these are not the best foods and are high in grain but my stubborn parents think that is the right choice just because the vet said it was the best ). But even after he has eaten, he will still search for food. Is this normal?? (He also just had a health exam and came back perfectly fine so I didn't think it was worms just a basset hound being a hound)

Also are we supposed to let him wander around until he is tired and then direct him to his bed? We usually know he is tired because he starts to yawn so we pick him up in his blanket and wait till he falls asleep and then put him in his bed. Is that not ideal? Should we just wear him out till he is tired and wants to go to sleep? Sometimes he gets really angry when we pick him up for nap time as he wants to continue running around.

He is going to go to puppy-preschool soon for socialization and we are also getting him used to being outside.

(Other things I thought to add: I think the window for crate training has closed too. He was not born in a crate-like den but in a sort of open pen. The first couple of nights we had his bed in this box on its side and he did not like it in there and kept sleeping on the other end which was poking out. He seems a whole lot more comfortable with sleeping in the open without a little den than with one. Surprisingly too the above problems are the only serious ones. I thought we might have had more after we got him.)

I'm really sorry for the length but I wanted to be really clear and I would rather get the opinion of people who have owned bassets than someone who has no idea what they are really like.

Thanks for reading and hopefully replying with useful ideas. I attached a picture below of him for those curious.

Attached Thumbnails

 

vb3

This is probably part of a lot of what you are witnessing and the time is right to try and train some of it out of him. In my opinion (and there are others) some of what you want doesn't sound reasonable for any dog, especially such a young puppy.

Instead of yelping try a deeper tone. Shout "No" or some other word for negative conditioning. You might also try and scruff him gently when he latches on. Definitely be consistent so he learns which cue means playtime is over.

I'm not sure I understand why this is a big problem. What is the harm in him following you to the kitchen? It could just be that he is still a puppy and very attached to you - you said you usually go to the kitchen from the lounge so it may only seem like he is fixated on that room.

Most basset hounds/dogs in general do. Have you ever given him people food? If not it might be puppy curiosity, or maybe he got lucky when you dropped a chip or something...

Yeah maybe... again it depends on how big of a problem it is having an eighteen inch tall shadow. I've learned not to take steps backwards while cooking (or run the hounds out of the kitchen after I've stepped on a few tails). Unless he starts to countersurf having a basset hound follow you into the kitchen sounds like an OK deal to me. A walk-through gate will stop him from following you if it really is a problem. As for not getting enough food, if the pup was underweight/overweight at the vet check that should tell you something. Do you offer treats or anything while training? A couple of treats a day can go a long way for a 3 month old belly.

We've adopted two dogs who weren't specifically crate trained and I don't believe there is a window that closes. You can condition them to like their crates slowly by enticing them there with treats and leaving the door open, and over time work up to where they are in there for extended periods with the door closed. Crates may become necessary if you plan on leaving him alone for awhile and potty training is ongoing, and they are a useful time-out spot for other training.

I'm sure some of the other (more experienced) owners will have their opinions to add. If you have made progress on potty training that is a big victory in and of itself, the rest of this seems pretty minor to me. Have fun with your hound!

__________________
www.jowlsoffury.blogspot.com

mhvonalmen8908

This is a definite basset trait I've learned from my purebred. You will probably or have already learned that bassets are prone to being food driven. USE THIS!!! It makes training a lot easier.

More than likely it's the puppy in him. What worked for us was a deep "NO!" and sometimes a flick to the nose. Just a little one though. Then all play is stopped until we deem it time to start back up.

I don't see why this is a problem either. My two follow me to the bathroom everytime I go. It's just something you'll learn to deal with and compensate for. But if you really don't like it then walk-through gates would be my best bet. I trained mine to stay out of the kitchen when I'm cooking. It's safer for everyone involved. I almost tripped over Doppler with a pot of boiling water in my hands once. It would have been both for both of us.

Again, don't see what the problem is here. He could be curious as to what you're doing or he's hoping his soulful brown eyes will convince you to give him some of what you're eating. Mine do the same thing. But they have learned that they're more likely to get some treats and snacks if they don't crowd me. If he crowds you really bad then you can train him to sit or lay down far from you. When mine are too close to me then I stand up and walk into them until they back up as far as I want them. Eventually they stay away and when they do for a while, then I'll throw them a snack. Now they just lay there until I see fit to give them a snack.

I would say just let him be. Unless the kitchen is completely off limits then I would say let him wander where he will. You say he's completely house-trained then I wouldn't worry about him in there. He'll wander his way back to you eventually. My house has a pretty open floor plan so I can see mine from the living room. But if you really don't want him in the kitchen and it's possible then put up walkthrough baby gates.

This is very normal I think! My two would eat all day if I let them.

I would say if you want to wear him out before bed to play with him. Play fetch or tug or something similar. Run through his gamut of tricks a couple of times to mentally wear him out. And as for putting him on his bed to sleep, if you let him sleep loose then let him sleep wherever he wants to. However, if you crate him then rather than shoving him into the crate or whatever, lure him in with a treat. And puppies will nap whenever they need to. I don't think you can make them take naps.

I think this is a great idea. I wish we had taken ours in for puppy training purely for the socialization. I think he'll get used to being outside pretty quick.

I don't think the window for crate training is every fully closed. It might take longer for older dogs but as he's only three months old it should be a simple matter of getting him used to the crate. I love having dogs who are crate trained. It helped immensely with house training.

Well! That's all the information I have! If you have any other questions feel free to ask them and we'll try and help you out some more! Good luck with everything. You've got quite the cutie on your hands!!!

__________________
Megan & Chris
-Mom & Dad to Doppler (2 year old Basset/Redbone/Golden mix) and Virga (1 year old Basset)

Princess Buttercup

Isn't he a cutie!! Try turning that food obsession into a reward while training him. You might find little Humphrey to be a Mensa candidate afterall! Once I realized PB would do anything for a treat, training became much easier!!

Mikey T

It is for a scent hound not so much for other breeds. IMHO this is actual a trait that selective breeding created. Bassets were bred to hunt all day long. Which dog is going to be the better more tenacious hunter, The dog that gets full after breakfast or the one that is still hungry. It is unlike many breeds the typical basset that is freed fed let to consume all that it wants becomes quite obese.


What is ideal is what work for you see Creating a night Time Ritual


There are very few window that close when it comes to training

1. is bite inhibition which we will get to later

2. the other is socialization and hibituation which means exposing the puppy everything and everyone and every situation it is going to encounter as an adult. in the 2 month -4 month time frame puppies are are lot more open to new experiences after this time frame something new they are likely to approach with fear. So it is much easier and both the dog and human to expose the dog to these things in a safe and freindly manner when the dog is a puppy then spend alot mote time and effort tring to overcome fears in an adult dog

So not the window for crate training is certainly not closed but crate training is far more involved than simply putting the puppy in the crate and expecting him to enjoy it it very rarely happens.

Crate Training

The article above use a method called shaping. IMHO it is one of the more difficult techniques to learn simply by reading etx I highly suggest taking a course on shaping or many if not most clicker training class at least teach the technique as well.



and this is a problem why? It is the nature of basset hound which are very social more so than other social scent hounds. The basset will be where you are. It is their nature That said seperation anxiety can be a real issue with the breed So practicing many mini departures for seconds at a time sloly lengthening can help The Easies way to do this is the use of door or baby gate to confine the dog.

seperation Anxiety

Mikey T

Let us talking the mouthing/bitting issue Keep in mind 99.9% of dogs will out grow the mouthing/bitting if you do nothing it just takes time and maturity, that said what does not happen is bite inhibition that is biting with a soft mouth that need to be taught.

see Bite Inhibition - How to Teach It

Note that the recommendation is using the yelp and/or withdrawing attention. It is important to note that not every technique works for every compbination of owner and dog. There is no single best way to do anything with regard to dog training.

see Insights Into Puppy Mouthing
So let get to where the problem are

1. IMHO most new owners failed to understand the two parts of the brain and limic system which is the emotional side and the congnative side which is the thinking side. The limbic side is also resposible for the fight/fight threat response. This response mechanism takes over and overides the cognative side of the dog brains when it is highly arroused and excite. So when the odg is overly excide you can not train the dog, it does not hear you etc. So part of the mouthing/ bite inhibition is also controling the dogs excitement level. that is don't let the dog to esculate to the over excited stage before intervening. What I see happen over and over again. Is dog bite hard Human Yelp sogs stops for an instant human reengages dog in play raising the excitement level this happed till eventually the dog does not even hear the yelp because of its excitement level.

This is what I do if the dog bite hard yelp dog back off an instant. I will give the dog a few second to calm down. I will try and pet the dog. If the dog move toward my hand with it mouth I will withdraw my han and wait some more. Until the dog will stay calm enough that I can pet I will not reengage in play. You need as part of the bite inhibition training also to start instilling some self control in the dog as well. But you must teach this. by not letting the dog get so excited it is in a state it can not learn. You need to remain calm and move slowly, exceedingingly slow. Any quick movement will imatate prey which excites the limbic system etc

2. The use of extinction via negative punishment can be a highly effective tool That is ending a behavior i.e. hard bites by removing (negative) punishment ( that which reduced the occurance of a behavior) so ingnore the behaivor can work staying still, withdrawing attention, issolating the dog. That said what 99% of people are never told about a certain aspect of using this method which is critical and that is the Extinction Burst What happen is a behavior that has been previously reinforced ie biting gets worse much worse befor it becomes extinquised. THe most often used explaination is the elavator. You hop on an elavator and push the button for your foor someting you have done 1,000's of times. and nothing happens. What do you do. Get out and take the stairs because obviously the elevator is broken. NO you push the button again and again. maybe a different button, faster, harder, longer, hold it in before giving up. This is what a dog will do when you start to ignore/withdraw attention from the behavior. It is normal But what causes problem is assuming it is not working so you end up reinforceing the dog for its burst. What it learns is that by bitibg harder , stonger being more obnoxious works when face with a similar situation . So by changing methods quickly without giving them a fair chance to work you tend to make the problem worse as well. That does not mean you should stick to a method that obviously is not working for you but You need to take in to consideration that training is a long process and not to expect instantanious results but gradual improvement over time.

For me a deeper tone tends to work better as well but more important is controlling the dogs excitement level. If the dog is getting to approaching the stage of being out of control back down move more slowly. That is part of the process as well do not try and train a dog that is over excited because it simply can not learn

see The over stimulated Hyper dog

Most people are taught that a loud no!, a shaker can , envn a spray of water are punishment for a dog. THis can be true but for most dogs following the behavioral definition of punishment not the tradition which is simply punishment = adversive - something to avoid. The behavioral definition of Punishment is somthing that reduces the likelihood of a behavor occuring. So unless the behavior is reduce it is not punishment. In reality at best the above are disruptive stimuli, that is they temperaritly stop the dog from doing what it is doing. As such they do have value, Because if you read the link above before you can teach an over excited dog you have to get its attention and that is what a disruptive stimuli does, It gives you a momment or two in which you have the dog attention which you chan than use to teach a more appropriate behavior. Such as dog chewing on table leg. Yell know dog looks up give the dog an appropriate chew toy reward dog for chewing on the toy. Welling no, yelping, shaker can etc are not going to change a behavior in themselves they just give you the oppurtunity to train a more appropriate one.


Tug can be very effective tool when played with rules for teaching bite inhibition.

1. it allows you to change the excitement level of the dog. over time you can increase the excitement level and still demand the dog control its mouth. When starting out you want to keep the excitement level low

Tug of War

Most vets have absolutely not behavioral training they are general very poor choices for behavioral advice. Saddly the same is true when it comes to nutrition as well.


Keep in mind the grains are bad for dogs is a myth that brought on by marketing campaigns by high end dog food companies to differenentiate themselves.

I will try and condense the myths down.

1. Grains are the leading cause of allergies in dogs.
a. Food allergies account for 10-15 of all allergies in dogs
b. food allergies are cause by protein
c. Grains contain some protein so dogs can become allergic but not any more so than they can become allergic to chicken, beef eggs, fish etc
d the protein dogs prone to allergies are mostliely to become allergic to is the one they are exposed to most.




Keep in mind when you look ad the nutritional content on a bag of dog food there is info on fat and protein but not carbohydrates. This is because dog do not need carbohydrate. In actualality that is not completely true but the amount is miniscue. So why do dog food manufacture have any charbohydrates in dry food. It is quite simple without starch kibble can not be made it is required to hold all the other ingredients together. Grainsd provide this starch. Grain free kibble have not discover some magical manufacturing process. No they simply substitute another starch source like potato or tapioca for grain. The thing is these carbohydrae/starch sources if anything are less nutrious than grains so from a real nutritional stand point there is no advantage to grain free if everything else is equal

Corn and Soy
What Are The Most Healthy Grains, Legumes And Starches?

HumphreyB

The long reply I had written somehow got deleted so while I try and figure out what the heck I wrote I just want to say thank you all so much for the replies. I guess I was being a little melodramatic about the kitchen and following us thing because we have never had a dog before and I really didn't know that this was normal behavior among them. As well as the food obsession although that can be turned into an advantage with the training.

It is a good thing about the crate training. If we need to crate him in the future it will be ideal but as some of us are always home and rarely is he alone completely so crate training doesn't seem as important as it would if he was going to be alone all the time.

The only real thing about the kitchen is the problem that he might knock someone over and hurt him if we are cooking. He really enjoys the oven for some reason because of the reflective surface on the front of it.

We now wear him out before bedtime instead of struggling to get him to go to bed. He seems to be able to sleep a lot quicker if his bed is near the fire. I guess basset hounds enjoy the warmth a lot.

He usually bites because he gets way too excited when we play and the other reason he bites is usually because we are not letting him do something he wants to do. He also sometimes bites because we aren't playing with him. I am positive it isn't out of fear or aggression although he does growl if he doesn't get his way. The biting doesn't produce blood thankfully but it certainly hurts and you can see small puncture marks from where his teeth touched.

I guess the myth about tug of war being bad because it causes aggression is way wrong. Good thing too because we loves to play it.

That is good news about the grain diet then because I was worrying when they went out and brought this 7kg bag of the Science Diet in thinking it might have ill effects on his skin (allergies) or poop.

One thing I am curious about is that sleeps in the same bedroom as me and it is going well so far. He doesn't whine anymore when he needs to go out as he used to sit by the door and make a small whining noise to be let out. He now sits there patiently or comes over to my bed if I don't get up right away. Anyway he does get up during the night, not to go out but I guess he wakes up and some of the time he can go back to sleep without any fuss but sometimes he doesn't seem to be able to find a comfortable positive and will move around a lot in bed or just get up and move about for going back to sleep. When he does this I usually sit down on the floor beside his bed and stroke him until he gets to sleep. Nothing happens which would excite him (no interaction apart from the petting) and I usually don't talk although I say 'good boy' in a soothing voice if I feel like he needs a little encouragement to sleep. He usually just drifts off (maybe from the stroking?).

So I wondering if me getting out of bed and patting him when he seems uncomfortable is a bad idea? He doesn't whine for attention or seem to care if I don't get out. He could definitely get to sleep on his own without me patting him but I guess I have just become accustomed to it although I was wondering if this is somehow going to cause him to whine in the future if he wakes up during the night and wants some attention?

Oh and another small thing, the flaps of skin they have on their ears (on the edge of it) which is for trapping scent (at least I hope this is what it is for), his get a little dirty from all the times he goes outside and in general. Is it a good idea to clean them when they get like that? Or leave it alone? I cleaned them a little today with the ear solution the vet gave us.

Again thank you all so much for the replies and the helpful articles. It is definitely going to help with everything.

Mikey T

it is not for traping scent all dogs cats etc have them even those with upright ears. keeping the outside of the ears clean is a good Idea. You can sometine help the situation by the use of a snood when the dog is eating to keep the ears clean or the use of spaniel bowl which have a larger diameter at the base than the opening sort of like a valcano help keeps the ears out of both the water and food bowl.

This is clearly a western sociatal moire on the dangers of spoiling the child. However studies have clearly demonstrated that providing babies the attention they need in a timely manner reduces attention seeking behavior, crying whining etc. so in the end you are actual better of doing so. Dogs are not humans but those that I know that practice this find it far more effective than the allternative which is to ignore attention seeking behavior. If you read my post early about extinction burst you know ignoring attention seeking behavior lead to more and more of the same at least temporarily . Keep in mind attention seeking behavior are used by thedog in the first place because the human can not help but reward them because the human could not ignore it in the first place so how can one possibly ignore the behavior when it gets even worse much worse. Also ignore the behavior does not change the emotional state of the dog the need for the attention. So even if Successful in stopping a particular behavior the need on the part of the dog has not ended. It will simply seek out and try different even more obnoxious behavior till it finds one thak can't be ignored. a vicious. vicious cycle.,


Not so much all dogs but typical for basset hounds.


Puppies can entertainthemselve for hours in reflective surfaces as the get older their appeal tends to disipate for most but not all dogs. I think the follow tip for when preparing food or eating at dinner can be a great help also dinner parties etc. It is basical teach the dog to go to a particular spot and remaining calm, and by doing so it will be highly rewarding. Over time you can slow decrease the frequancy rewards increasing the time between eventual getting to reward the dog after the meal is prepared and eaten

Table Manners



For puppies especial the presence of food can over excite and create the same problem you experience with over exurberant play the dog in an over excited state can't learn. Which can be rather self defeating if trying to use food as a reward. I highly recommend practicing the following exercise before attempting to use food in training. It also a good exercise in teaching self control.



First of growling is not an agreesive act it truth when used by a dog not in play it is used to prevent a fight actually. Dogs Use Non-Aggressive Fighting to Resolve Conflicts

In play dogs use all manner of fighting etc it is basical practice of these social skills Many people simply do not understand the nature and original purpose of dog play and hence where myth like tug creates aggressiveness no it creates intensity.

Oh behave: Love and mounting


Dog growling is very complicated and dog decern the means well not so for humans gos can tell the size of the dog whether the growl is to protect /resource guard or not etc.
Dog Growls Contain Specific Information

A Dog's Growl Announces Its Size

Which goes to prove how laughable it is trying to mimic dog behavior as a means of training a dog because we human simply are not good enough to do dog v dog communication


The problem with science diet is not that it contains grain simply that it contain to much carbohydrates and plant based protein and not enough meat based protein and fat. This is a seperate issue for grain but are often lumped together. Take for example Dick van Pattens Natural balance toughted as some great all natural heather product but the protein levels, fat levels and charb levels are the same or worse as most science diet food. Simply because it gets a "great reputation" because it is grain free but suffers form the same problem to much vegitable matter. It is not about grains it is about plant content. Higher quality food contain more meat based food stuff and less plant based ones. Higher quality food are more digestable, and have a higher calorie per cup so you feed less. The price on the bag is irrellevent of the actual cost to feed. If I buy a food that is half again as much as a cheap grocery store brand but only have to feed half as much it is actual cheaper to feed the more "expensive " food that is often the case .


WHY NOT TAKE CANDY FROM A BABY? (If he lets you!)
Examines manipulation as part of social life, and the dog's need for clear boundaries & leadership



Puppiesd in general are more heat seeker than adults but it is more an individual dog thing some prefer the heat some the cold.


When it comes to training a basset IMHO anyone that calls a basset hound stuborn it misguide and most of the time it is they who are stuborn cling to some elitest mentality that the dog should listen to them because they are the human and therefore some how superior. Quite simply traditional training techniques that use coersion, physical punishment and verbal praise do not work well with bassets. First lets describe the basic basset personality in training term would be considered soft. That is they are not very tollerant of phyiscal corrections. When put in a stressfull situation which is by defintion what an adversive creates a basset shuts down it simply stops doing anything. Hence the flat basset, suction feet etc. Basset were breed to hunt independantly of human guidance as such unlike herding and other sporting breed they were not bred to look toward human for dirrections. That means they are less bidable. They simply do not derive any enjoyment our pleasure from pleasing humans. Verbal praise does not mean much to the average basset. All dogs do what works for them. If please a human is pleasurable to them they will work for verbal praise. That what makes me laugh at traditional trainer that state you should use food the dog should work to please you. Well there is the reason that the typical obedience champions are BC, labs and goldens because that is what they were bred to do. These same trainer are going to suck when it comes to training a basset and other breeds than have very much a different mind set and motivations. What is important in training is what is motavating and rewarding to the dog , not what you thing should be rewarding and motivating.

Hard to Train?
A look at "difficult-to-train" breeds and the reality of what shapes these canine minds.

Media Hound, Front and Finish: July 1994

A review by Heather Naddlemann in Front and Finish magazine as the title proclames a mag dedicated to formal obedience training on Sanely Corens Itellegence of Dogs that fairly and consiesly exposes the problem with the methodologies he use in assessing "training intelligence" of breed and the importance personality traits play in ring performance,

mhvonalmen8908

Yet another reason I've trained mine to stay out of the kitchen while I'm cooking. It's for everyone's safety.

Virga, when she was younger, would stare at herself in any reflective surface we have. She'd growl at her reflection after we got our new DVD cabinet with glass doors. We once brought the over the door mirror out into the living room and laid in longways on the floor. Oh my god! She was hysterical! I wish we had videoed it but the camera was dead. She doesn't do it so much anymore. But it's funny nonetheless.

__________________
Megan & Chris
-Mom & Dad to Doppler (2 year old Basset/Redbone/Golden mix) and Virga (1 year old Basset)

Mikey T

It is very rare that I use a crate for confinement at home that does not mean crate training and using a crate is anyless important to be than someone that does. Crate serve more purposes than simply confinement whe you are not home. They are a safer way to transport a dog and in the case of a serious accident they have save dogs lives not necessisarily because of preventing injureries during the crash but the aftermath of the crash the dog is comfined and not escaped only to be hit by traffic when it is in a panic confussed state. it allows the dog acess to more areas if you have a portable containment device when you need one. It is a sfety device at vets etc. IMHO every dog should be crate trained. The crate also can be a training device as well



Crate Games for Self-Control & Motivation DVD
Crate Games, it is not just for breakfast anymore.

Crate Games and the Question of Value