Bit by basset

peterluquer · 03-15-2011, 09:54 PM

I drive a Fedex route and today I backed into a driveway where a male hound was barking and was apparently disturbed by my intrusion. As a hound owner (Lollypop, with whom some of you may be familiar) I was needles to say excited to greet a basset and see how he was doing and what all his bluster was about. I got out of the truck with my parcel while he barked away, but his hackles were not up, nor was he baring teeth so I thought he was just a verbose fellow. Perhaps I was overly demonstrative, but I bent down to greet him formally, and perhaps quell his ardor, when before I knew it he chomped down on my left ankle leaving a rather nasty and bloody canine tooth puncture. I was shocked. I grew up with golden's and bassets and have never been bitten by a dog (I'm 47). I confess I was disappointed that my biting debut was with a hound as I like to fantasize that all hounds are sweet and well mannered, as the best canine breed (in my opinion) should be. Oh well. I did call the owner (who was not home which may have played a large part) to see whether he was up to date on all his shots, which he was, so I 'm not worried about any possible unfortunate residual effects of the bite. The owner it turns out was as shocked as I, as his hound had never bitten anyone before, nor had he shown any inclination to do so. He is 12 years old and apparently a tad cantankerous, but that's nothing new, I've met many a cantankerous old hound. So what gives? Was he simply protecting his property? Was my approach too abrupt and assuming? I obviously wasn't showing any fear (maybe a little AFTER the bite). Should I have been more cautious? or am I simply on the wrong end of a basset in a bad mood?

gsally · 03-15-2011, 10:17 PM

Oh Peter, I hope you are OK!

What did the basset do after he bit you?

I'll be interested to see what Mikey T has to say!

Take care and beware!

SophieB · 03-16-2011, 06:35 AM

I expect the Basset was just protecting his territory that you had 'invaded' temporarily as in my experience, it's unusual for a Basset to bite!

PS: Maybe instead of you bending down to the Basset, you should have lowered yourself down to his level, like I always do with children (on your kness maybe) and then you wouldn't have looked so large hovering above him!

Mikey T · 03-16-2011, 12:06 PM

Quote:

but I bent down to

bending at the waist is a threatening gester to most dogs especial from a stranger. Secondly the dog was teathered if you study bite statistics you will find most mites occur with teathered dogs there are a number of reason for this. 1. in a filght, fight response the do not have a flight option which only leaves fight. They are more subject to antagonistic behavior from human teasing , threats etc and from other dogs as well. There also is more fustration on the part of theathered dogs that can see something but not get to it etc.
You often find this in so called leash aggression in which a dog acts aggressivly to stranger or other dog when on leash but not off leash.

Tie dogs out

Quote:

Not all dogs are completely comfortable around all strangers and even mild discomfort can be seriously compounded both by anxiety at being left and the tethered dog's inability to retreat. Passersby, especially children, may try to pat the unattended dog. This could result in an aggressive incident. Tied out dogs are also at increased risk to lunge at moving objects such as bicycles and skateboards, and may display frustration-related aggression towards other dogs who pass by, even if they are normally friendly toward other dogs.

TETHERING DOG CAN BE BIG MISTAKE

Quote:

Studies have shown that tethering increases aggression in dogs. This aggression may be carried into situations other than tethering -- greeting strangers in the home, for example. There are three main problems with tethering. A dog that is tethered is feeling two instinctive responses immediately. One is a natural territorial defensiveness. She is protecting her property from would-be strangers. This does occur in fenced yards as well, but usually not to the same extreme. Another typical response is a personal defensiveness. This occurs because the dog is anchored, so to speak, and has lost the ability to flee in case of danger. The ``fight or flight'' response is very real and, by tethering a dog, you have inadvertently left it with only one choice, to ``fight.''

Quote:

The final concern is that unless you are out with your pet the entire time it is tethered, your pup has no protection from outside forces, be they animal or human. I feel there is often miscommunication between dog and person in the best of situations. A tethered pet is the most susceptible to receiving mixed messages from strangers. This can lead to distrust of people. The tethered dog needs to learn how to greet strangers appropriately and not to be afraid of them. Tethering a shy or timid pup is a recipe for disaster. If a fearful pup is left without a means of escape, it often results in fear aggression and bite incidents. Timid dogs must be approached in a very submissive manner, and the average person has a very dominant approach in dog language.

Dog bite statistics for tethered dogs

Quote:

Findings in the dog bite literature show an association between a dog being tethered and dog bite attack on a person, particularly a child who unwittingly approaches the tethered dog. This is been known for some time,

Being tied out tend to make dogs act more aggressively than they normally would. Dogs that are tied up outside usually means this is a normal state of affairs for that dog so it has had more chances to rehearse and prepare for aggressive actions, One must be exceedingly cautious and be well versed in doogie body lanquage and calming Signals

Humans Greeting Dogs, How not to get Bitten

Quote:

Son, reach out your hand and let the dog sniff you before you pet him.” Yeow! This is a recipe for getting bitten. That’s right. Many people think that if they walk up to an unfamiliar dog and offer their out-stretched hand, the dog will respond in a friendly manner. Ha! I don’t know how this rumor got started, but we would all be much safer if we cease and desist this misguided and potentially dangerous activity.

...
In the United States, when people meet a stranger, they typically approach each other directly, then shake hands while making eye contact and show their teeth by smiling. That’s how we show each other that we are not a threat or an enemy, that we are polite, honest, and we understand social customs. Well, guess what? When you behave that way toward a dog you don’t know, you are sending the exact opposite message. You are simply saying that you are aggressive, threatening, and not to be trusted.

...When two dogs approach each other for the first time, they do not march directly up to each other face-to-face. They do not hold a vulnerable body part within striking distance of the other’s most dangerous weapon. They do not bare their teeth and gaze directly into the other dog’s eyes. Instead, they walk around each other in an arc, at some distance, then get closer as they circle. This gives each dog a chance to study the other and assess whether this meeting should or should not take place.
People should not force a dog to be approached or touched if it makes the dog uncomfortable. When you approach a dog and reach out your hand, you are forcing yourself into that dog’s personal space. If the dog is uneasy, you could be bitten.

11 Tips for Greeting a Strange Dog

IMHO one of the big faux Paux that get children bit is hugging dogs. Most dogs even very freindly ones are not comfortable with it it an an extremely threatening gester in doggie lanquage. Some dogs can become corfortable with it over time from specific people but it is not common that one is so welcoming of a stranger doing so.

Hugging Dogs

Quote:

I'm confused about hugs for dogs... there have been references to Turid Rugaas' statement that dogs don't like to be hugged, and that we shouldn't hug them.

What Turid Rugaas has "observed," Patricia McConnell and others have studied and theorized about. In "The Other End of the Leash." (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!) McConnell explains it this way:
We, as primates, have arms with which to hug one another, and hugging is found in all primate species (ape, chimp, etc.) as an expression of love, endearment, support, or as a gesture of mutual fear or sadness. So humans naturally think of hugging as an expression of positive or supportive emotions.
Canines, on the other hand, being quadrupeds, do not have free "arms" and thus have evolved to have no understanding of a "hug."

...Placing a head or paws on top of another dog are also often assertions of dominance, which, if not accept submissively by the other dog, can turn into ritualized aggression. There are other common canine expressions of dominance that resemble aspects of a human hug, such as leaning, where an assertive or dominating dog will lean on another dog to make it move.

Bending over at the waist , reaching around the back of the dogs head, hugging are all possible preluded to the dominance/threatening act of the paw or head over the back gester that is general not welcom unless the dog clearly understands it is part of play.

Quote:

Maybe instead of you bending down to the Basset, you should have lowered yourself down to his level, like I always do with children (on your kness maybe) and then you wouldn't have looked so large hovering above him!

Definately, but attempting a greating with a strange dog that is not calm is a mistake, Also aproach in an arc not head on, end up side by side with the dog not facing it, get down to the dog level by squating/kneeling pet the chest not reaching over the back of the dogs head. This off course is not meant to assess blame as clearly can be shown tether can certainly be a contributing factor. Olso tether dogs tend to be the least cared for most neglected so it is difficult to seperate the two. whether theathering itself is contributor or the lack of training and socialization are the reason. Most likely a little/lot of both.

bubbad · 03-16-2011, 12:12 PM

My Grace was a bit stanoffish to strangers but once we accepted you so did she . The one person she hated was the Guy who checked out the electric meter.He had to come inside our fence and then inside a covered porch to read the meter,he wore a uniform,a tan color.I know dogs do not see colors the way we do but I always wondered if it had something to with her hatred of him. He would bring her treats she would never accept them even if he threw them over the fence,seemed like a really nice guy.I would have to come out and take her in the house. I know she would have bit him. I never saw her act towards another person the way she acted towards him. No one will know what the dog was thinking when he bit you.

Soundtrack · 03-16-2011, 12:13 PM

Without being able to observe the behavior of yourself and the dog it's impossible to say exactly what the problem was, but certainly having an invader on his property, while his owner was not home, and also being a senior with probably diminished eyesight and/or hearing and possibly some arthritis (pain) could all be contributing factors.

Unfortunatly, most people, especially nowadays, are not sufficiently able to read a dog's body language to understand what it is telling them.

It just emphasizes the point that one should not pet a strange dog without asking the owner first.

Regarding tethering: There is now thought that it is not tethering per se that causes aggression, but the fact that constantly tethered dogs are also frequently subject to neglect and lack of socialization and training. Rather like the old argument that unneutered dogs were more likely to bite, it is not because they are unneutered but because, in this society, people who do not do the "responsible" thing by neutering are also likely to neglect the other responsibilties of dog ownership, such as socializing, training, and not allowing the dog to roam at large. Correlation is not causation in either case.

bubbad · 03-16-2011, 12:18 PM

Mikey is also correct about the dog being tied.If the owner is not there to settle the dog down first then I wouldn't touch it at all. Bending at the waist is a no-no,I will crouch to make my self less overwhelming to the dog but if the dog is still radically barking and not curious I won't touch. You just need to think out the situation a bit more no matter if it is a hound.

Mikey T · 03-16-2011, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Correlation is not causation in either case.

which is a problem with the conclusions of many studies.

Kirska · 03-16-2011, 01:58 PM

I was bitten several times by my family's cocker spaniel growing up, a few painful lessons on respecting a dog's space and belongings and reading behavior. I was only about 6 or 7 and my parents wanted to put her down because of it but I threw a royal fit and we ended up keeping her into old age.

Mikey is correct that it is widely accepted that there is a correlation between tethering and biting. Personally I don't understand the point of having a dog if you're just going to leave them either tied up to a tree outside or in a dog run 24/7.

Some dogs are just quirky. I'm 90% sure if someone entered our yard and my Harley was outside someone could get bit. He's not a mean dog, but definitely feels it's his job to guard our house with his life. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Mikey T · 03-16-2011, 05:40 PM

Quote:

I was bitten several times by my family's cocker spaniel growing up,

FWIW when bite statistics are analysed not for severity ie lethal bites cocker spanial rate at the top or near the top of the list when comparing bites to breed population.

03-15-2011, 09:54 PM	#1 (permalink)
peterluquer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Worcester, MA Posts: 139	Bit by basset I drive a Fedex route and today I backed into a driveway where a male hound was barking and was apparently disturbed by my intrusion. As a hound owner (Lollypop, with whom some of you may be familiar) I was needles to say excited to greet a basset and see how he was doing and what all his bluster was about. I got out of the truck with my parcel while he barked away, but his hackles were not up, nor was he baring teeth so I thought he was just a verbose fellow. Perhaps I was overly demonstrative, but I bent down to greet him formally, and perhaps quell his ardor, when before I knew it he chomped down on my left ankle leaving a rather nasty and bloody canine tooth puncture. I was shocked. I grew up with golden's and bassets and have never been bitten by a dog (I'm 47). I confess I was disappointed that my biting debut was with a hound as I like to fantasize that all hounds are sweet and well mannered, as the best canine breed (in my opinion) should be. Oh well. I did call the owner (who was not home which may have played a large part) to see whether he was up to date on all his shots, which he was, so I 'm not worried about any possible unfortunate residual effects of the bite. The owner it turns out was as shocked as I, as his hound had never bitten anyone before, nor had he shown any inclination to do so. He is 12 years old and apparently a tad cantankerous, but that's nothing new, I've met many a cantankerous old hound. So what gives? Was he simply protecting his property? Was my approach too abrupt and assuming? I obviously wasn't showing any fear (maybe a little AFTER the bite). Should I have been more cautious? or am I simply on the wrong end of a basset in a bad mood? __________________ Peter Luquer peterluquer@gmail.com

03-16-2011, 06:35 AM	#3 (permalink)
SophieB Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 839	I expect the Basset was just protecting his territory that you had 'invaded' temporarily as in my experience, it's unusual for a Basset to bite! PS: Maybe instead of you bending down to the Basset, you should have lowered yourself down to his level, like I always do with children (on your kness maybe) and then you wouldn't have looked so large hovering above him! Last edited by SophieB; 03-16-2011 at 06:38 AM.

03-16-2011, 12:13 PM	#6 (permalink)
Soundtrack Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,581	Without being able to observe the behavior of yourself and the dog it's impossible to say exactly what the problem was, but certainly having an invader on his property, while his owner was not home, and also being a senior with probably diminished eyesight and/or hearing and possibly some arthritis (pain) could all be contributing factors. Unfortunatly, most people, especially nowadays, are not sufficiently able to read a dog's body language to understand what it is telling them. It just emphasizes the point that one should not pet a strange dog without asking the owner first. Regarding tethering: There is now thought that it is not tethering per se that causes aggression, but the fact that constantly tethered dogs are also frequently subject to neglect and lack of socialization and training. Rather like the old argument that unneutered dogs were more likely to bite, it is not because they are unneutered but because, in this society, people who do not do the "responsible" thing by neutering are also likely to neglect the other responsibilties of dog ownership, such as socializing, training, and not allowing the dog to roam at large. Correlation is not causation in either case. __________________ Rosie-Ch Soundtrack Cracklin' Rose CGN AGN RA Am RN TT Melody-Ch Soundtrack Unchained Melody TT Sailor-Ch Soundtrack Expedition Sailor RN TT Chili-Ch Soundtrack Spice Up Your Life Curry-Ch Soundtrack Canadian Brass Pepper-Ch Pennieslogon Living La Vida Loca CGN Vina-Ch Soundtrack Grand Illusion Leila-Ch Soundtrack Almost Paradise Deela-Ch Soundtrack Wink Of An Eye Hermione - Soundtrack Spellbound Eowyn - Soundtrack Rain Dance Last edited by Soundtrack; 03-16-2011 at 12:23 PM.

03-16-2011, 01:58 PM	#9 (permalink)
Kirska Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 933	I was bitten several times by my family's cocker spaniel growing up, a few painful lessons on respecting a dog's space and belongings and reading behavior. I was only about 6 or 7 and my parents wanted to put her down because of it but I threw a royal fit and we ended up keeping her into old age. Mikey is correct that it is widely accepted that there is a correlation between tethering and biting. Personally I don't understand the point of having a dog if you're just going to leave them either tied up to a tree outside or in a dog run 24/7. Some dogs are just quirky. I'm 90% sure if someone entered our yard and my Harley was outside someone could get bit. He's not a mean dog, but definitely feels it's his job to guard our house with his life. I wouldn't worry about it too much. __________________ Mom to Anabelle and Lila, rescued ladies and Harley, Corgi/Beagle/Basset/?? mutt "Saving just one dog won't change the world, but it surely will change the world for that one dog." - Richard C. Call

03-15-2011, 10:17 PM	#2 (permalink)
gsally Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: PA Posts: 275	Oh Peter, I hope you are OK! What did the basset do after he bit you? I'll be interested to see what Mikey T has to say! Take care and beware!

03-16-2011, 12:12 PM	#5 (permalink)
bubbad Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Boiling Springs,Pa Posts: 1,347	My Grace was a bit stanoffish to strangers but once we accepted you so did she . The one person she hated was the Guy who checked out the electric meter.He had to come inside our fence and then inside a covered porch to read the meter,he wore a uniform,a tan color.I know dogs do not see colors the way we do but I always wondered if it had something to with her hatred of him. He would bring her treats she would never accept them even if he threw them over the fence,seemed like a really nice guy.I would have to come out and take her in the house. I know she would have bit him. I never saw her act towards another person the way she acted towards him. No one will know what the dog was thinking when he bit you.

03-16-2011, 12:18 PM	#7 (permalink)
bubbad Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Boiling Springs,Pa Posts: 1,347	Mikey is also correct about the dog being tied.If the owner is not there to settle the dog down first then I wouldn't touch it at all. Bending at the waist is a no-no,I will crouch to make my self less overwhelming to the dog but if the dog is still radically barking and not curious I won't touch. You just need to think out the situation a bit more no matter if it is a hound.

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