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Old 02-20-2011, 11:17 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default New Puppy Barking and Howling

Hi everyone, new member here.

We brought home our first basset the other night and I'm determined to learn as much as I can so I can train her properly and keep her well balanced and happy.

I've never had a hound before, our family has mostly been Pugs, Chihuahuas and other smaller short faced dogs . While I was aware that hounds will be prone to howl, I do want to get a handle on this before it becomes a bad habit for her.

She's only 12 weeks old, and she howls and cries anytime we put her in her crate. She was born on a farm, so I assume that previous to moving here she had full run of wherever she wanted to go (or at least more so than an apartment).

I've read that a good way to deter them from barking is to just ignore them, but that's not really an option because our neighbors are not the kindest of people.

Have any methods worked for any of you in the past? We spoke with someone at Petsmart today who suggested pennies in a metal can, but that did absolutely nothing.

Any suggestions?

(PS: I might have several more threads with questions LOL)
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Old 02-21-2011, 01:32 AM   #2 (permalink)
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you are expecting to much simply putting a dog in a crate and not expect them to protest. "crate training" is actual the term use to aclimate a dog to a crate. Using a crate during house breaking is simply that.

see the links below

Crate Training

crate Training



Crate Games for Self-Control & Motivation DVD

Quote:
Crate Games for Self-Control and Motivation features not only mature dogs but puppies as young as 9 weeks old learning
Seperation Anxiety
Quote:
Dogs are highly social animals. Their genetic programming is to be in a pack with other individuals 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. They can learn to handle being alone for moderate periods of time but, in most cases, it doesn’t come naturally. It’s not surprising then that some dogs develop separation anxiety, a disorder which, in its severe form, can consist of panic attacks: urinating, defecating, frantically scratching and chewing at doorframes, barking and crying whenever the dog is left alone.
Separation anxiety is often triggered by either a high contrast situation – months of the owner home all day followed by sudden eight-hour absences – or some sort of life change – rehoming, a stay at a boarding kennel, a death of a key family member or major change in routine.

...

Puppies and newly adopted dogs are at higher risk to develop separation anxiety if they are smothered with constant attention their first few days home. It is much better to leave for brief periods extremely often so the dog’s early learning about departures is that they are no big deal and predict easy, tolerable lengths of absence: "whenever she leaves, she comes back

Another reasons puppies cry bark an howl is the same reason babies do to get your attention. The much offered advice of simply ignoring the behavior rarely works because it does nothing to affect the underlying need of the puppy. Secondly ignoring a previously rewarded behavior, cause the behavior to get worse much worse through a phenonenom know as an "extinction burst" if the dog performs these behavior in this context it is because they have been rewarded for it, keep in mind interaction with the dog that we humans consider punishment is none the less attention the dog is seeking so punishment is often actually rewarding the behavior. an lastly it does not teach the dog a better alternative behavior. Because the underlying emotional state of the dog has not changed it desire for attention has not changed, If on method of seeking attention is effectively ectingquished the dog does not simply abondandon the desire to get it. It comes up with even more annoying behavior you simply can not ignore.

see Harmony Programme for a better way
[url=
It is so simple – following the “crying baby” model for filling the need as soon as it arises, ASBDs(atttention seeking behavior} can be entirely avoided as well as cured by giving focussed attention immediately and as soon as the request has been received.

This does not mean one has to put one’s entire life on hold or “run rings around the creature” – it is literally a simple little flash of attention at the right time and [B]when first asked for it[/B]; the classic “a stitch in time saves nine” principle.

Rather than “rewarding” attention seeking behaviour, it never gets to escalate, the creature’s energy system remains balanced and the disturbed behaviours never need take place at all.

As the babies who are fed when they are hungry cry markedly less or not at all, creatures who receive attention energy (or love or recognition energy) when they ask for it, their attention seeking behaviours become markedly less frequent, markedly less dramatic and may cease altogether once the system has been in operation for a while and the creature has understood that not only can it get what it needs just the for the asking, but also it’s energy system has become more robust, more healthy, more resilient and won’t collapse when there is a time when attention is in short supply.[/quote]

Last edited by Mikey T; 02-21-2011 at 01:48 AM.
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Old 02-21-2011, 01:47 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Mikey is dead on with the crate training info. Just know that will take some time for the puppy to adjust. Make sure that you're not reinforcing the behavior by giving her attention while she's making such a fuss. If you do, she'll learn that she can get her way from behaving like that. You might try cover the crate with a sheet or blanket so that she isn't able to see out all the time.

With crate training, you need to teach your puppy to like their crate. Start simply by leaving the crate open for her to get in and out of. When my hound was little, I would hide treats for him to find in his crate. I also gave him something to keep him occupied if he was going to be in the crate for a while. They make a puppy kong with a squeezy cheese like substance you can spray inside. I had a couple of these I would fill then freeze so it would keep him interested for a longer period of time. Here is a link to the stuff I used

Puppy KONG Dog Toys for Beginning Chewers - Toys - Dog - PetSmart
KONG Puppy Stuff'n Paste - Sale - Dog - PetSmart

I also bought a dog shaped toy in roughly the same size as him. I slept with it for several nights so it smelled like me. Here you can kill to birds with one stone, reminding her of her litter mates and having the smell of you around to easy anxiety. You can also so the same thing with an old t shirt that you wouldn't mind being chewed up.

Hang in there! It takes some time for the little ones to settle in but in the end it's totally worth it!
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Old 02-21-2011, 03:13 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Perhaps puppy needs some love and attention and time to settle in as being somewhere different needs time to get used to! She is probably missing the rest of her family that she's been spending fun times with for several weeks and needs to be cuddled, played with and not ignored in a crate!
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Old 02-21-2011, 05:33 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Just in case anyone got the wrong idea, we don't just leave her in the crate all the time. Our dogs are only ever in their crates if it's time for bed, or if we leave the house. We've done this with all of our dogs growing up and our 7 year old pug sleeps in a crate too.

When she's not in her crate, she's playing with us, going on walks, or of course napping (as she's only 12 weeks old). I just wanted to know if anyone knew of any ways to nip this habit in the bud early on.

Right now she's asleep on the couch. My husband and I take turns sleeping in the living room because she won't go in her crate for the night at all, but she can't be trusted to just roam free at night.

Tonight I tried hiding treats in there, and I gave her a piece of a treat anytime she checked the crate out or went inside. When she went inside I closed the door and gave her a treat as well, and then I opened the door and if she stayed inside, I gave her another one. But if I closed the door and just kind of left her there for any longer than a minute, she would cry.

I'll be trying to continue this tomorrow during the day (when my neighbors are gone or at least awake so if she does cry I can try to not give her attention for it).
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Old 02-21-2011, 06:18 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Feeling your pain, Jia! We've just been through it with our puppy-- we got him at 16 weeks and have had him for almost 3 months now. I would say it was a month-long process for him, to get really comfortable and crate-trained.

For starters, I have a feeling that all dogs are different, so just because I had a pretty easy time doesn't mean it's because I did all the right things-- a lot of it has to do with the dog, too, so please don't get discouraged and keep trying to figure out what will work for your puppy. For example, my puppy has never, ever howled-- now, who knows why? maybe it will come later in life for him. However, he can bark very, very loud, starting from Day 1 when he was barking in the car as I took him home. A very mature LOUD bark. However, there have only been 2x when he has used this loud bark. Once when he had to stay at the vet's (obnoxiously loud) and once when my roommate was home but had him in the crate-- he apparently barked x 45 minutes (as my upstairs neighbor told me). But other than that, he has never used that bark (thankfully) when he's in the crate. He would just whine to show us he was upset. Usually he would whine anywhere from a few minutes to 10 minutes each time we put him in the crate that first month; then he would curl up into a ball and give us a sad-mad look, and then fall asleep.

I should also tell you about my friend, who crate trained her chihuahua and told me to crate-train mine. Her chihuahua barked and barked and made all sorts of noise for 3 days straight; then decided it wasn't worth it to bark anymore, and never made a sound again when put in her crate. Crate-trained in 3 days, despite all the obnoxious barking! And actually loves going into her crate now, and even goes in by herself at times. So, it can happen.

I had to read all about crate training, because I didn't know a thing about it. One thing I read that could be helpful in your situation, is that it made the suggestion to alert your neighbors that you just got a puppy and are in the midst of crate-training it now. Meaning that it could be a very loud and annoying process, but only this bad for a short time. You could explain the process usually takes weeks to months (or for my friend, only days!), and that once it is done, the puppy should not typically be that loud anymore, and that many puppies are quiet once they are crate-trained (mine is totally silent). Anyways, it could be helpful to open that line of communication with them, if you have a decent relationship with them, maybe even giving them a gift card or small present as a token of your appreciation for their patience (if you feel inclined to do so). Bottom line is that it could be helpful to explain that this really shouldn't be a long-term situation, just a temporary one.

Other things we did, which you may or may not find helpful: we didn't just have him in the crate when we were gone or sleeping (first month, he slept in his crate in the living room). We also would put him in there for a half hour or an hour, several times a day, on weekends, for example. And we would be in the same room with him doing other things around him. That seemed to help him not always associate the crate with us leaving him. We put a lot of comfy blankets and water bottle in his crate. We also have always put toys in his crate-- however, I have never seen him actually play with toys in the crate. He only seems to rest or sleep in the crate. I also used to feed him his dinner in his crate, occasionally, since he looovvves food! I would put his bowl in it with the door open. He was so excited about the food, he would go in and eat it, and then come out when he was done. Just so he can associate the crate with good things. Couple times a week, I would also give him a beef rib bone or other chew/bone toy that he could work on and eat over a period of 30 minutes or so. I would put it in there, he would go in, I would shut the door, and he would be preoccupied with working on it (so definitely no barking or whining for a half hour!). Also, it was cleaner for him to eat the bone in the crate, rather than on our carpet. We did ignore him when he whined. And when he quieted down, we would come back and talk to him/play with him, and give him attention. Don't get me wrong-- he did NOT like to be in the crate and was mad at us. But when he did the right thing, we tried to reward him with our presence to try to make it a little more pleasant for him. When he was in the crate, sometimes we would try to play with him and pet him through the wires. Sometimes he would be mad and try to nip/gnaw on our hands and fingers. We didn't allow him to do that at all, and would absolutely ignore him and leave when he did that behavior. I think it worked because he doesn't do that now.

One thing I learned the hard way (though probably intuitive for a lot of people)... I felt like I was breaking my back, trying to put this 20 lb pup into the crate that he didn't want to go into... shoving him in there and then fighting to close the door as he tried to get out. After a couple weeks of this, one day it dawned on me to throw a great-tasting treat to the back of the crate. I would show him the treat first and then he would follow me as I threw the treat in. My puppy would go right in to eat it, nose first, and then it was easy for me to close the door-- voila! So much easier. I liked giving him treats that would take him 5 min to eat (ie. chicken wrapped yams or dried chicken chews), because it would take him some time to eat it-- so he didn't turn around quickly, and because it would occupy him so he doesn't whine for at least 5 minutes. I think it helped make the transition easier, as he was calmer after working on the treat. Because i have heard bassets will do anything for food (... mine is that way...), I was prepared to give him the greatest-tasting treat, if needed, such as hot dog or steak (but fortunately, didn't have to, as he was fine with the dog treats).

A couple weeks ago, (I would have never believed this...!), he started going into the crate to nap in there in the evenings!!! unbelievable! (he sleeps in our beds at night). I think it's like his "cave" now, and I have no doubt it can become your puppy's too... it just takes some time. Hang in there and don't get discouraged. It really can work. Good luck with everything!
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Old 02-21-2011, 06:40 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Wworm, I will thank you for your words in greater detail later today - because right now Whiskey is sleeping in my lap and i only have one hand to type with lol
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Old 02-21-2011, 07:17 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Untypically Jia View Post
Right now she's asleep on the couch. My husband and I take turns sleeping in the living room because she won't go in her crate for the night at all, but she can't be trusted to just roam free at night.

.
This has worked for me over the years with lots of pups:

Temporarily put the crate next to your side of the bed. Put the puppy in with a soft blanket, you can put your hand near her she doesn't feel isolated. She should settle down and go to sleep. During the night when she has to go potty she'll start to fuss becasue she won't want to soil her blanket- get up, take her out to her potty place, wait til she potties and tell her she's a good girl, then bring her back to her crate. With young pups you might have to do this more than once each night.

This not only gets her used to the crate, it starts housebreaking: she learns that when she fusses you will take her out.

Our dogs don't sleep in the bedroom with us, after they got used to the crate we moved it- they now sleep in a downstairs room- we don't crate them anymore.

If you have to leave her in the crate give her something she gets ONLY WHEN IN THE CRATE that she loves- the heavy duty black kong stuffed with cream cheese, peanut butter, etc. will keep her busy for a long time and she'll start looking forward to going into the crate and getting a special treat.
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Old 02-21-2011, 07:38 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I'm thankful for all of your advice, I'm just so frustrated (and lacking MUCH sleep right now). I've tried a lot of the suggestions. Actually, pretty much everything and it all works until that door closes and even if she has food in there, she'll turn around and start barking.

My neighbors have already started banging on the ceiling, (and no, we do not have a good relationship with them at all, they are very mean people and have caused a lot of problems for us in the past).

The only way she'll sleep at night is if she's right there with me. I even tried keeping the crate by my side with my hand inside of it rubbing her, and she just kept coming right back out. When she goes inside, she got a treat and a rub, but again, once the door closed, she began howling.

I want to do right by my dogs, but I feel so out of my wits right now (due to lack of sleep), and because we aren't able to get her used to the crate, we can't properly house train her. We have puppy pads in certain locations (places she went right when we brought her home) and we have given her treats when she goes to the pads (but she hasn't yet gone to the bathroom on them). If I catch her peeing on the carpet, I grab her quickly and put her on the pad (I don't punish her either). But then she'll take two steps off of the pad and pee on the carpet.

I know it takes time, but I feel like I can't even start at square one. Rock and hard place.

I know I'm rambling. Sorry.
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Old 02-21-2011, 07:53 PM   #10 (permalink)
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LOL my husband just texted me from work saying, "You're both stubborn redheads . . . a battle of will was inevitable."

Ain't that the truth, haha.
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