I have some doubts about a basset puppy.

afest · 02-18-2011, 06:08 PM

Hey everyone, I've been reading the forums and I got the courage to ask a couple of questions.

I have a french minitoy, eight years old (Killer, my wife's dog before I met her... she gave her that name as a joke and it stuck). He's quite cranky. Also, I got a two month old Basset recently (yeah, too early from what I've been reading recently. Her name is Nico).

The thing is... I don't understand some behaviors and I wanted to ask some advice about this, because I'm new to this puppy stuff and also, Nico is my first dog... ever, no matter how much I read I really want to ask to people who has experience (yeah, I bought a couple of books, and I've been crawling the internet about puppy training like I am obsessed).

Killer growls at the puppy protecting its territory or its space. Nico goes around and tries to bite him. I corrected this, she doesn't bite anymore, but she put her paws above him. Killer keeps growling and growling until he snaps.

I know this is normal. A puppy wanting to play and stuff.

But sometimes, they share the same bad and they sleep. No growls, no bites, not a snap.

Then, Killer gets up, sometimes Nico goes after him, sometimes she doesn't. When she goes, this paw stuff punching Killer's head goes again. I don't know if I should leave matters to both dogs or if I should correct both of them. No growling, and no putting paws in the head.

I was wondering if there was something to make Killer's life more pleasant or to help them get along.

What do you think about it?

SophieB · 02-18-2011, 06:47 PM

I think I would put Killer outside on the naughty step if he became nasty to my Basset pup!

afest · 02-18-2011, 06:55 PM

I would do that, but then... my wife would send me to the naughty step and probably will have to sleep there. :O

Mikey T · 02-18-2011, 06:57 PM

When you say she bites does that mean Puncture wounds?

putting mouth on dog with no injury is mouthing and normal behavior and you should not intervene. An occasional scrape ie the ears etc is not uncommon an not a big concern either as accidents will happen provided it is not a very frequent occasion. this is more cause by the movement of the dog that has a body part in the others mouth,

Quote:

Killer growls at the puppy protecting its territory or its space.

If nico was 8 weeks when this is happening it speaks more to the maladjustment of Killer. at this Age puppies ussual receive from adult dogs what is known as puppy license with means they can behave in the most rude and obnoxious manner and the adults are tollerant. Ads the puppy mature ~16 weeks when sex hormones start to be produced this all changes and adult will start to put puppies in their place this can be rather dramatic.

so for some behavior the big paw as I call it is a common basset tactic to illecit play from another dog or get what it want from a human. With humans it is general a rude and obnoxious behavior and you may want to nip it in the bud. With dogs however I hestate to say the same because it is likely your intervention will do more harm than good. See links below.

Puppy license and adult behavior–STOP SEPARATING PLAY

Quote:

My general rule when the dogs are sane is that if blood isn’t flowing, I don’t interfere. This is because of the following great truth:

When we interfere, we screw up a lot more dog interaction than we ever fix.

Humans are REALLY bad at reading what’s happening with dogs. We ignore really bad stuff and we stop, even punish, perfectly normal behavior. This is true even when you’re really experienced; I have spent thousands of hours studying this stuff and I am more convinced that I am an idiot when it comes to dog behavior than I was when I began. Maybe when I’m sixty I’ll start interfering, but right now I know perfectly well how dumb I am.

...This is normal and good; it’s how the pack bonds with and learns to protect the puppies that come into it.

But then at some point, say at twelve or sixteen weeks, even earlier for the quick maturers, the little soft fuzzy schnookums-wookums becomes a growing dog, and her little games start to involve using her teeth in a real and deliberate way. And instead of bumbling into the adult dogs’ heads and falling over, she’s lying in wait and then barreling over and jumping on their heads.

The adult dogs decide they’ve had enough, and they begin to punish her for this rude behavior. If she jumps on them they roar, they knock her with their mouths, they send her ki-yi-yi-ing into the next room. When she has play interactions with them they don’t hold back anymore; they pin her and knock her over and she yelps and rolls away.

The human says “Oh no! Poor Gladys! They’re being rough with her!” and they begin to supervise the play. Every time the adult dogs get “rough” they are stopped or disciplined. If they continue to “victimize” the puppy they are totally separated; she plays alone and they play alone.

THIS IS SUCH A BAD IDEA.

Puppies learn from adult dogs. A vital and absolutely incontrovertible role of a healthy adult dog is to teach the puppy how to be a good and polite dog. The adult teaches–yes, by physical punishment, though that punishment is not cruel–how to interact with other dogs, how to live in a pack, how to ask permission, how to back off, etc. If you stop that from happening, not only does the puppy grow up with SERIOUS issues that will hurt her chances of being a normal dog who can get along with other dogs, you build resentment between the two dogs. If the adult dog is never allowed to complete a lesson, he will try harder and sooner the next time. If he’s stopped again and again, pretty soon he will decide that the only way to deal with this is to remove the puppy from the picture entirely.

This is why you end up with separated packs, and the owners say “From the very beginning, they just couldn’t get along.” The vast majority of the time, it was the humans who doomed the relationship because they misinterpreted a set of actions that is not only normal but ESSENTIAL, and they “broke” the ability of the dogs to interact normally.

You MUST understand this: DOGS DO NOT MISS. There’s no such thing as “If I hadn’t been fast enough, he would have hurt her.” Trust me, that dog is WAY faster than you. There’s no “Another inch and he would have hurt her eye.” If he had wanted to hurt her eye, he would have hurt her eye. You did not rescue her and you did not stop him. What he did was exactly what he intended to do, no more and no less.

It Takes a Pack to Raise a Puppy

Social Hierarches

Quote:

. It was apparent that adult dogs, bitches especially, showed leniency towards young pups in social situations. The termination of this 'puppy license' is cued by rising testosterone levels in male pups at four- to five-months of age, which reach a peak around 10 months (4-5 ng/ml) before declining to adult levels (1-2 ng/ml). When puppies approached adolescence, they were continually harassed by adult dogs. Male adolescents were especially targeted by adult males. This stressful phase of social development is mercifully short, because the pups quickly learn to display active and exaggerated appeasement in order to allay harassment by adults, i.e., the pups learn their station in life before they become serious competition on the social scene. Even so, several maturing adolescents, especially the high-ranking males, started to challenge older, low-ranking females. In our studies, all challenges against adult males were unsuccessful, even though, when full-grown, most of the new generation turned out to be larger than the old guard.

Developmental rank-reversals are more likely to occur on the domestic scene with the enormous disparity in size between different breeds. Also, human intervention tends to exacerbate social problems. Nonetheless, it is not uncommon for an extremely small adult dog to maintain higher rank over a much larger, but younger dog of a different breed.

Keep in mind all the annoying behavior of puppies have on common denominatator and that is a lack of impulse control. This is somthing that can be taught over time see

It yer choice

Guidelines for Teaching Self Control

Rather that try to intervene in a middle of a "conversation" between the two dogs it pays to be more proactive. Part of the problem might be the size diparity between the dogs in that the adult is much smaller and may not be able to effectively discipline the puppy properly. You may want to looking in to puppy kindergartens and other mixed aged dog play groups that would allow the puppy to interact with "larger" dogs that might be better at teaching her some manners as well. That is seperate the dogs and give killer space when you know the puppy is likely to be more than its ussual annoying. Puppies run on regular cycles of full out and dead stop. these can be regulated and by doing so you grease the skids as it were. ie tire the puppy out some with games like chase and tug of war See Tug of war and TO TUG OR NOT TO TUG:
SERIOUSLY, THAT'S STILL A QUESTION? before allowing the puppy access to killer etc.

I think you may also find the following bookle helpfull FEELING OUTNUMBERED? - HOW TO MANAGE & ENJOY A MULTI-DOG HOUSEHOLD, 2ND EDITION

and for a fair review click hear

Quote:

The guiding premise of the booklet is the value of teaching "polite, patient, and respectful" behaviors and making a conscious effort to reinforce these in situations where dogs might otherwise be pushy and demanding. The authors point out that, left unguided, many dogs will get pushier as they grasp for their own rewards, resulting in a mob of rude, potentially contentious dogs.

The authors recommend such things as teaching simple obedience exercises to each dog on an individual basis, interrupting overzealous play, controlling doorways, greetings, and mealtimes, teaching dogs to accept being segregated and to accept watching other dogs receive food and attention. The authors underscore the importance of teaching a dog frustration tolerance. All of this is sound and sensible advice

afest · 02-18-2011, 07:20 PM

Thank you very much, I'm reading thoroughly. What a great help. So... bottom line, when the dogs collide I have to let them sort it out. When Killer get enough, he usually goes to a couch where Nico can't reach him. I'm not betting that is going to last.

The impulse control looks like magic. Gotta try it right away. I was beginning to wonder how would I stop Nico when she get bigger when I'm giving food to Killer (They eat different kinds of food. Killer can't eat proteins because of a genetic disease). I'm going to include this in the daily routine of Nico.

Thanks for the help.

02-18-2011, 06:08 PM	#1 (permalink)
afest Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 7	I have some doubts about a basset puppy. Hey everyone, I've been reading the forums and I got the courage to ask a couple of questions. I have a french minitoy, eight years old (Killer, my wife's dog before I met her... she gave her that name as a joke and it stuck). He's quite cranky. Also, I got a two month old Basset recently (yeah, too early from what I've been reading recently. Her name is Nico). The thing is... I don't understand some behaviors and I wanted to ask some advice about this, because I'm new to this puppy stuff and also, Nico is my first dog... ever, no matter how much I read I really want to ask to people who has experience (yeah, I bought a couple of books, and I've been crawling the internet about puppy training like I am obsessed). Killer growls at the puppy protecting its territory or its space. Nico goes around and tries to bite him. I corrected this, she doesn't bite anymore, but she put her paws above him. Killer keeps growling and growling until he snaps. I know this is normal. A puppy wanting to play and stuff. But sometimes, they share the same bad and they sleep. No growls, no bites, not a snap. Then, Killer gets up, sometimes Nico goes after him, sometimes she doesn't. When she goes, this paw stuff punching Killer's head goes again. I don't know if I should leave matters to both dogs or if I should correct both of them. No growling, and no putting paws in the head. I was wondering if there was something to make Killer's life more pleasant or to help them get along. What do you think about it?

02-18-2011, 06:47 PM	#2 (permalink)
SophieB Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 839	I think I would put Killer outside on the naughty step if he became nasty to my Basset pup!

02-18-2011, 06:55 PM	#3 (permalink)
afest Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 7	I would do that, but then... my wife would send me to the naughty step and probably will have to sleep there. :O

02-18-2011, 07:20 PM	#5 (permalink)
afest Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 7	Thank you very much, I'm reading thoroughly. What a great help. So... bottom line, when the dogs collide I have to let them sort it out. When Killer get enough, he usually goes to a couch where Nico can't reach him. I'm not betting that is going to last. The impulse control looks like magic. Gotta try it right away. I was beginning to wonder how would I stop Nico when she get bigger when I'm giving food to Killer (They eat different kinds of food. Killer can't eat proteins because of a genetic disease). I'm going to include this in the daily routine of Nico. Thanks for the help.

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