Puppy training ?

Basset Momma · 02-08-2011, 01:25 PM

Frodo is having a hard time in obedience class… the trainer says he is just timid and bashful… but the little booger isn’t cooperating. We have mastered “sit” and “watch me” pretty consistently now… but I cannot get a down for the life of me! He’ll sit and dip his head down… but the rest of him won’t follow no matter how I maneuver the treat. He won’t take treats in class…. No matter what we try- spits on them… or worse rolls around on the treat like he is putting on perfume! The trainer laughs so hard saying she has never seen that and trying to video it… I’m afraid he is going to be the class clown! He will take the biljac PB and Nana treats at home sometimes but not in class. He has refused all offerings including a beef rawhide in school! He walks loose leash well so we are progressing… but I am stumped on finding a way to reward him enough for cooperation! Today for his homework I sliced up fresh baked ham into pieces… worked well for a “sit” but no go on “down”- Any ideas for treats or training? The pitbulls in his class get it on the first try… but not my boy! I’m going to have to get a bumper sticker that says my basset failed puppy obedience school

Basset Momma · 02-08-2011, 01:29 PM

This is my beloved class clown...

Kirska · 02-08-2011, 01:49 PM

Anabelle was also the class clown in her obedience class. She had no problems with "down" actually it was the getting her back up that was the most difficult. Are you standing up in front of him? Anabelle did better when I kneeled in front of her to start with but she is VERY short.

In our class if the dog didn't "get it" we would eventually as a last resort just put them there until they understood what we were asking of them. For example for down start tugging on their front legs gently. But again that's probably best left as a last resort.

The stars of my class were a standard schnauzer and a cattle dog.

Anabelle also refused treats the first class or two, so we started bringing a mixture of hot dogs, ham, and chicken. They are very distracted at class so they're not quite as interested in food as normal.

Kirska · 02-08-2011, 01:50 PM

A general tip if your trainer hasn't emphasized it is to only say a command once. Otherwise you may end up with a dog that only sits to "sit... sit... sit... sit" as opposed to "sit".

mhvonalmen8908 · 02-08-2011, 02:10 PM

Another way you could get him to do a down would be to lure him under your leg. Just sit on the floor with one foot on the ground. Your leg should make a triangle. Then, try and lure him under your leg with a treat. You probably won't be able to do this in class but you can practice this way at home. As soon as he's completely on the floor, click him (if you're using clickers which I assume you are), and then treat him. I would also make a huge deal over him. I wouldn't pair it with a word just yet. Let him get used to the movement and then, when you think he's ready, say 'down' as he's in the process of going down. Then click and treat him when he's completely on the floor. Eventually you should be able to phase out the leg and just say 'down' and he'll go to the ground. Good luck! Once he figures out what you're asking of him I'm sure he'll pick it up pretty quick. And they are very distracted in class. Good luck!

Princess Buttercup · 02-08-2011, 02:28 PM

Took us forever to learn down too. "put a treat between their front legs & most dogs will instinctively lay down." BS!!! Certainly not when they can still reach it standing up!!! We parked it in the living room with a big bag of treats over a long weekend & decided we were either going to have a porker or a dog that learned to lay down! She's got it now but I'm not entirely sure she really knows the difference between sit & lie down, she just circles through doing everything she knows until she gets the treat! It's a real good thing she's got her looks!

Soundtrack · 02-08-2011, 03:24 PM

I find the "under the leg" trick works well. Bassets are usually difficult when teaching the "down" - surprising, since that seems to be their favorite position the rest of the time!

Have you tried cooked liver? My dogs will do backflips for that.

RachelW · 02-08-2011, 04:09 PM

To get Maddie to do a "down" I get her in the "sit" and circle the treat around her body (she prefers to "spin" to the left) and she's eventually forced into a down trying to get the treat. She ends up in a curled position rather than just the stretched out "down" most dogs perform, but it worked well for us!

Keep up with it, Maddie is kind of a rare Basset - my trainer said - because she seems to LOVE to learn. Regardless, she has the same stubbornness that is found in most Bassets. Be persistent and it will pay off!

Lightning&Stomps · 02-08-2011, 05:28 PM

The only thing I've never been able to teach Lightning is down.

Mikey T · 02-08-2011, 06:37 PM

Quote:

find the "under the leg" trick works well. Bassets are usually difficult when teaching the "down" - surprising, since that seems to be their favorite position the rest of the time!

Personally I have never been able to transfer the under the leg to an actual behavior because getting down and leg bent at knee etc becomes part of the cue for the dog but what works great for me but will never work in a class setting to teach is a technique called capturing. IT works well with dogs that understand clickers but if you are prepared with treats you do not need a clicker.

Because at it basics "down" is something that you need not teach the dog they already know how to do to, what you need to do is teach them to do it on cue.

step one is increase the likelihood the dog will lie down by rewarding it. When you now the dog is tired or other times you know the dog is perparing to lie down such as getting up on the bed etc. You reward the dog right as the go down. Lure then back up and wait for them to lie down again reward. Over time They should start doing this pretty quickly. Once that is happening you can start to add a cue just when the dog is about to lie down say down over time the down becomes the cue to lie down. It is a no muss no fuss method you just need to wait for the appropriate oppurtunity to train.

see How You Get Behavior Really Does Matter

Quote:

Capturing
Capturing is usually the first “hands off” training technique tried by most new clicker trainers. The concept is incredibly simple: When the dog does what you want, click and reinforce it!
Capturing is necessarily limited to behaviors that occur naturally in their finished form. It’s rather unlikely that the average dog is going to offer a full set of weaves the first (or second or third or…) time he sees the poles, but it’s a pretty good bet that he’s going to sit, lie down, or bark at some point.
It’s also limited to behaviors that occur with enough frequency that the dog can figure out a pattern to the click. It seems obvious to us what we’re clicking, but the dog may not be focused on that particular aspect—or any aspect—of his behavior at that moment. It’s only with consistent capturing of that behavior that he can figure out the common denominator of each clicked situation.
Like the Boy Scouts of America, the motto of any trainer who wants to capture behavior should be “Be Prepared!” Behavior happens quickly, and if you aren’t ready, an opportunity to catch it can be missed. This doesn’t mean you have to follow your dog around, clicker in hand, twenty four hours a day. Instead, identify the times that the behavior most commonly occurs or the events that generally precede the behavior and be ready to capture the behavior then. For example, to capture a bow, catch your dog when he is stretching after waking from a nap.
Although capturing is limited to the frequently-occurring behaviors included in a dog’s personal repertoire, it ranks fairly high on problem-solving ability because the click is the only information given. The dog must experiment to work out what he can do to earn a reinforcer. Happily, nearly all of the behaviors desired by pet owners occur frequently enough to be captured. It’s quite easy to teach a complete beginner’s class—even a class of pet owners with no desire to become trainers—using only capturing.
Another pro to capturing is that it teaches new trainers to anticipate behavior and to see the smaller responses that occur just before the desired behavior. This, of course, is the first step on the road to shaping.

How to Use Your Clicker to Capture Behaviors

Capturing a Behavior: Teaching Your Dog to Lick her Chops on Cue

HOW TO CAPTURE BEHAVIOR

How to Add the Cue

Dog Training Tip of the Day- Adding a Verbal Cue

02-08-2011, 01:25 PM	#1 (permalink)
Basset Momma Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: West Texas Posts: 2,305	Puppy training ? Frodo is having a hard time in obedience class… the trainer says he is just timid and bashful… but the little booger isn’t cooperating. We have mastered “sit” and “watch me” pretty consistently now… but I cannot get a down for the life of me! He’ll sit and dip his head down… but the rest of him won’t follow no matter how I maneuver the treat. He won’t take treats in class…. No matter what we try- spits on them… or worse rolls around on the treat like he is putting on perfume! The trainer laughs so hard saying she has never seen that and trying to video it… I’m afraid he is going to be the class clown! He will take the biljac PB and Nana treats at home sometimes but not in class. He has refused all offerings including a beef rawhide in school! He walks loose leash well so we are progressing… but I am stumped on finding a way to reward him enough for cooperation! Today for his homework I sliced up fresh baked ham into pieces… worked well for a “sit” but no go on “down”- Any ideas for treats or training? The pitbulls in his class get it on the first try… but not my boy! I’m going to have to get a bumper sticker that says my basset failed puppy obedience school __________________ -Wendy Mom to Samantha, Jake, Cuddy, Frodo, & Indy

02-08-2011, 01:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
Basset Momma Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: West Texas Posts: 2,305	This is my beloved class clown... __________________ -Wendy Mom to Samantha, Jake, Cuddy, Frodo, & Indy

02-08-2011, 01:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
Kirska Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 933	Anabelle was also the class clown in her obedience class. She had no problems with "down" actually it was the getting her back up that was the most difficult. Are you standing up in front of him? Anabelle did better when I kneeled in front of her to start with but she is VERY short. In our class if the dog didn't "get it" we would eventually as a last resort just put them there until they understood what we were asking of them. For example for down start tugging on their front legs gently. But again that's probably best left as a last resort. The stars of my class were a standard schnauzer and a cattle dog. Anabelle also refused treats the first class or two, so we started bringing a mixture of hot dogs, ham, and chicken. They are very distracted at class so they're not quite as interested in food as normal. __________________ Mom to Anabelle and Lila, rescued ladies and Harley, Corgi/Beagle/Basset/?? mutt "Saving just one dog won't change the world, but it surely will change the world for that one dog." - Richard C. Call

02-08-2011, 01:50 PM	#4 (permalink)
Kirska Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 933	A general tip if your trainer hasn't emphasized it is to only say a command once. Otherwise you may end up with a dog that only sits to "sit... sit... sit... sit" as opposed to "sit". __________________ Mom to Anabelle and Lila, rescued ladies and Harley, Corgi/Beagle/Basset/?? mutt "Saving just one dog won't change the world, but it surely will change the world for that one dog." - Richard C. Call

02-08-2011, 03:24 PM	#7 (permalink)
Soundtrack Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,581	I find the "under the leg" trick works well. Bassets are usually difficult when teaching the "down" - surprising, since that seems to be their favorite position the rest of the time! Have you tried cooked liver? My dogs will do backflips for that. __________________ Rosie-Ch Soundtrack Cracklin' Rose CGN AGN RA Am RN TT Melody-Ch Soundtrack Unchained Melody TT Sailor-Ch Soundtrack Expedition Sailor RN TT Chili-Ch Soundtrack Spice Up Your Life Curry-Ch Soundtrack Canadian Brass Pepper-Ch Pennieslogon Living La Vida Loca CGN Vina-Ch Soundtrack Grand Illusion Leila-Ch Soundtrack Almost Paradise Deela-Ch Soundtrack Wink Of An Eye Hermione - Soundtrack Spellbound Eowyn - Soundtrack Rain Dance

02-08-2011, 02:10 PM	#5 (permalink)
mhvonalmen8908 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Sumter, SC Posts: 671	Another way you could get him to do a down would be to lure him under your leg. Just sit on the floor with one foot on the ground. Your leg should make a triangle. Then, try and lure him under your leg with a treat. You probably won't be able to do this in class but you can practice this way at home. As soon as he's completely on the floor, click him (if you're using clickers which I assume you are), and then treat him. I would also make a huge deal over him. I wouldn't pair it with a word just yet. Let him get used to the movement and then, when you think he's ready, say 'down' as he's in the process of going down. Then click and treat him when he's completely on the floor. Eventually you should be able to phase out the leg and just say 'down' and he'll go to the ground. Good luck! Once he figures out what you're asking of him I'm sure he'll pick it up pretty quick. And they are very distracted in class. Good luck!

02-08-2011, 02:28 PM	#6 (permalink)
Princess Buttercup Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oregon Posts: 364	Took us forever to learn down too. "put a treat between their front legs & most dogs will instinctively lay down." BS!!! Certainly not when they can still reach it standing up!!! We parked it in the living room with a big bag of treats over a long weekend & decided we were either going to have a porker or a dog that learned to lay down! She's got it now but I'm not entirely sure she really knows the difference between sit & lie down, she just circles through doing everything she knows until she gets the treat! It's a real good thing she's got her looks!

02-08-2011, 04:09 PM	#8 (permalink)
RachelW Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 40	To get Maddie to do a "down" I get her in the "sit" and circle the treat around her body (she prefers to "spin" to the left) and she's eventually forced into a down trying to get the treat. She ends up in a curled position rather than just the stretched out "down" most dogs perform, but it worked well for us! Keep up with it, Maddie is kind of a rare Basset - my trainer said - because she seems to LOVE to learn. Regardless, she has the same stubbornness that is found in most Bassets. Be persistent and it will pay off!

02-08-2011, 05:28 PM	#9 (permalink)
Lightning&Stomps Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Versailles, Ky. Posts: 1,203	The only thing I've never been able to teach Lightning is down.

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