Too Young

Nitrosmom · 08-21-2010, 02:08 PM

Well, we got our puppy from a supposedly good breeder. My husband asked when we could bring Nitro home, the breeder said he sends his pups off at six weeks. So we picked him up at six weeks. My husband is now obsessing that we got him too young and thinks the dog will be scared for life. We have had Nitro for two weeks, which make him all of eight weeks old. He does really good with the potty training, but now he has found his teeth. He snaps at everything that moves, except the cat who bit him once, held him down and growled at him. (Yes, the cat growled at the dog).

My husband bought the Cesar Milan book How to Raise the Perfect Dog in which Cesar states that you should never get a dog before eight weeks. So my question is, is the puppy beyond hope because he was taken away from the litter too young? He seems happy and content and loves to play. He is figuring out how to bark and growl, which my 11 year-old son is claiming are acts of aggression. I tried to explain to him that Nitro does not even understand what aggression is at this point.

How can I explain this is a way that will make sense to the men in the house will understand? Or, am I completely off base and have a Cujo on my hands?

Basset Momma · 08-21-2010, 03:45 PM

No- while 8-12 weeks is best , in my corner of the world puppies often go home at 6 weeks... before we knew better we would bring ours home at 6 weeks... they all did fine and became wonderful pets... but the socialization was a bit behind... once the puppy has had shots get him involved in a puppy training class and perhaps even a daycare setting to learn the skills he could have learned from his litter mates. Even socialized puppies are "cujos" for awhile as they are teething!

bubbad · 08-21-2010, 03:59 PM

He was taken away too soon ,long before his mother could teach him lessons in puppyhood. Now that you have him it is not hopeless to bring him in to being a respectable family pet. You are his teacher now always remember persistence and consistancy is what will help him learn.The barking and growling may seem cute but if you do not limit it now it will grow into problems you don't want. I'm sure Ceasar's book will talk about these situations or MikeyT.(on this site) will give you all the info you need. He has not gone through his first fear period usually betwwen 9-12 weeks in which case you want to socialize him but not over power him with stimulus.If something scares him he will look to you to see how you react the less you react the better for him.He will learn when you are not afraid he doesn't need to be afraid. This is all a learning process for you as well. Good Luck

Mikey T · 08-21-2010, 10:07 PM

The optimal age to remove a puppy from the rest of the litter is subject and much has to do with 3 aspects.

1. the amount of habituation and socialization the dog recieves from the breeder

2. the amount of habituation and socialization the dog recieves from the new owner

3. The relative importance of dog-dog comunication and bonding vs dog - human communication bonding.

Six weeks at the extreme edge of being seperated from the litter, Contrary to what breeder that release dogs at this age general say, IMHO the reason most do so is to eleminate the need to provide the first round of puppy shot there by decrease their expenses That said their are ligitamate reason to do so. The association that train severice dogs find they have much better rates of success when starting with dogs removed rom the litters in the 6-7 week time fram than later. Early removal general result in a sronger dog-human bonding than later removal but at the expense of dog - dog comunication It is there for critcal to continue dog to dog socialization with the puppy to advoid dog v dog aggression issue later on. Also dogs removed earlier form the litter will have less bite inhibition than ones that remain longer with the litter so this require you to but more time into teaching it.

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My husband bought the Cesar Milan book How to Raise the Perfect Dog in which Cesar states that you should never get a dog before eight weeks

I can not comment specifical on this book never having read it but FWIW most of Cesar's methodology are based og the dog as wolf pack hierarchy model which has been invalidated for quite some time.

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am I completely off base and have a Cujo on my hands

Whether or not you will have a cujo on your hands rests in the habituation and solcialization you do now. If i were a reputable breeder I would hold on to the dogs for a much longer period of time. This is not because I think doing so is significantly better but because it gives me control over the hibtuation and socialization process so that I have to be less concerned that the new owners mess it up and I get back a dog in 6 months to a year that is screwed up. By holding onto the dog longer a reputable breeder that does socialization and hibituation right has very goods odd of only selling dog that will have solid temperments when they become older. It is why reputable breeder general hang onto dogs longer. It becomes less of a crap shoot for them that the new dog is screwed up by the new owners. The of course has the same benefits to the new owner they have a dog that has been socialized and habituated by someone that is skilled in it so they end up with a more bullet proof puppy.

But the bootom line is this much more a function of the quality of the hibutuation and socialization than who does it and how long the dogs stays in the litter.

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How can I explain this is a way that will make sense to the men in the house will understand?

Below are some scientific articles on the subject site real studies and examples I suggect you use the link and print compies of the entire articles for both your son and husband but I will included selected quotes from the articles which suport the body of what I have posted.

Puppy Socialisation and Habituation (Part 1) Why is it Necessary?

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One in five of the dogs that Dr Valerie O’Farrell (1986) studied while conducting research at Edinburgh (Royal Dick) University Veterinary School had a behavioural problem to a lesser or greater extent. A similar, but larger, American study fixed the figure at one in four. In one year my practice treated 773 dogs - 79 of them, that’s 10 percent, had problems of fearfulness towards people or the environment due to a lack of early socialisation or habituation

...Perhaps the most significant tests of all are those carried out in 1961 by Freedman, King and Elliot, which found that if puppies are kept in isolation from man and introduced at different ages their response to man deteriorates with age of first exposure. The results show that if puppies are introduced to humans for the first time between three to five weeks they will approach confidently, but those that are introduced between five and seven weeks of age will show increasing amounts of apprehension. Those puppies whose first experience of man is at nine weeks old or later will be totally fearful. In 1968 Scott concluded from his research into puppies kept in isolation from man until fourteen weeks “by fourteen weeks fear and escape responses have become so strong that any puppy raised in these surroundings acts like a wild animal”.

...Guide Dogs for the Blind, who, until 1956, used to rely on the donation of adult dogs which they took on approval to maintain their training stock. The success rate of these dogs fluctuated between 9 and 11 percent and it was recognised that this could be improved if the association could supervise the rearing of puppies. These were purchased and placed in private homes at between ten and twelve weeks old or even later. Things improved, but the results were not good enough. It was Derek Freeman, who pushed to have puppies placed in private homes at an earlier age to optimise socialisation and habituation during the critical development period. Derek had a strong belief in Scott and Fuller’s work and importance of early socialisation and habituation in the production of dogs that were best able to survive and perform in the world at large.
Derek found that six weeks was the best time to place puppies in private homes; any later critically reduced the time left before the puppies reached twelve weeks; but if puppies were removed from their dam and litter mates before six weeks they missed the opportunity to be properly socialised with their own kind, which resulted in inept interactions with other dogs in later life.

bold add by me for emphysis

Mikey T · 08-21-2010, 11:23 PM

It does little good to tell you that six weeks is not too early if you do the necessary hibituation and Socialization without out giving you guidelines to stratagies for doing so.

1. Puppy kindergarten class will go along way in alleviate any short comes in dog v dog comunication skill by removing the dog this early from the litter. This should not be done at least until the puppy has one series of inoculations. but that is general the minimium requirement of puppy classes any way most also have an 8 week minimium age.

2. The dog must have pleasant contacts with as many different people as posible. in uniform, with hats, and without, men, women, different ages and races etc.

3. slow and systematical introduce the dog to normal house hold noise and activies. For example dogs that are not habituated to the vacuum cleaner are often terrorized by it later in life.

4. Teach bite inhibition

the following links should help

Countdown to a Crackerjack Canine Companion

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home. As a rule of thumb, your pup needs to socialize with at least 100 people before it is 3 months old. This is actually much easier than it sounds. Invite a different group of eight men each Sunday to watch sports on the television. (Generally, men are pretty easy to attract and train if you offer pizza and beer.) Each Monday invite a different group of eight women to watch Ally McBeal and Dateline. Catch up on all your outstanding social obligations by inviting family, friends and neighbors to weekly Puppy Parties. On another night of the week invite some neighborhood children. Above all, don't keep this puppy a secret. And of course, the great thing about socializing a young puppy is that it also does wonders for your own social life!

Puppy Socialisation and Habituation (Part 2) How to go about it

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Instead of socialisation and habituation being a haphazard affair with experiences occurring at random, as is so often the case, the puppy's exposure to environmental stimuli should be as systematic as possible to ensure the best chance of it developing a sound temperament and capacity to cope in all circumstances.

Position Statement on Puppy Socialization AVSAB - American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior

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The primary and mostimportanttime for puppy socialization is the first three months of life.1, 2 During this time puppies should be exposed to as many new people, animals, stimuli and environments as can be achieved safely and without causing overstimulation manifested as excessive fear, withdrawal or avoidance behavior. For this reason, the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior believes that it should be the standard of care for puppies to receive such socialization before they are fully vaccinated.

...Veterinarians specializing in behavior recommend that owners take advantage of every safe opportunity to expose young puppies to the great variety of stimuli that they will experience in their lives. Enrolling in puppy classes prior to three months of age can be an excellent means of improving training, strengthening the human-animal bond, and socializing puppies in an environment where risk of illness can be minimized.

Being a Puppy Parent

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Even some of the very best books on dog care and training (i.e., How To Raise A Puppy You Can Live With, by Clarise Rutherford and David H. Neil, MRCVS, from Colorado State University) still contain a few of the old myths about dominance. Please don't worry about it, but try to get away from those myths.

I say "myths" because dominance is discussed as if people and dogs are natural enemies. Quite the opposite is true; mankind has enjoyed dogs as domestic partners for many thousands of years. We're hardly enemies, so let's not start thinking like that.

Instead, think of yourself as the Puppy Parent, if that will help you consider how to bring up your new "child" . I mean puppy parent in the sense of the person who provides physical care, security, attention to the dog's medical needs, diet, exercise, play, and instruction. Of course, human parents prepare their children to become totally independent so that they will leave the house one day and start their own lives, and that's the main difference. We try to raise our dogs so that we will have a compatible life together.

It Takes a Pack to Raise a Puppy
Understanding what a puppy expects and needs from his family

What Nobody Told You About Raising a Puppy

[Bite]ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- Inhibition - How to Teach It[/url]

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So why should you teach bite inhibition? Because dogs have one defense: their teeth. Every dog can bite. If frightened enough or in pain or threatened, your dog *will* bite. That doesn't in any way make him a "bad" dog. It makes him a dog. It's your responsibility, therefore, to teach your dog that human skin is incredibly fragile. If you teach your dog bite inhibition that training will carry over even if he is later in a position where he feels forced to bite.

Insights Into Puppy Mouthing

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Since your dog's clear intention is to get your attention then yelling "no" does little beyond reinforcing his behavior. He wants your attention, he nips you, you give attention. Worked perfectly. Keep doing it. If it stops working do it harder or bigger.
And about the yelping out in pain technique. I hate when people suggest this as if it is the Holy Grail of stopping mouthing. It totally depends on why the dog is nipping, how you yelp and how they respond to the yelping. With some dogs this idea alone can stop nipping and play biting in its tracks. But as you have discovered there are other dogs who are simply more triggered by the response. And you actually escalate the intensity of the behavior.
We can't ever just say if a dog is doing X behavior that a handler should always do Y handling technique. It just never is that black and white.
Its all about probabilities. If a dog does X behavior and the response is Y technique than we can often say there is a high probability of a particular response happening with most dogs. There are some fundamental things that are very high probability that apply to many dogs that do nothing or get a completely opposite response from other dogs.

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Cesar's methodology are based og the dog as wolf pack hierarchy model which has been invalidated for quite some time.

Position Statement - on the Use of Dominance Theory in Behavior Modification of Animals

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Despite the fact that advances in behavior research have modified our understanding of social hierarchies in wolves, many animal trainers continue to base their training methods on outdated perceptions of dominance theory.

...The AVSAB recommends that veterinarians identify and refer clients only to trainers and behavior consultants who understand the principles of learning theory and who focus on reinforcing desirable behaviors and removing the reinforcement for undesirable behaviors.

Why Won't Dominance Die? Association of Pet Behaviour Councillors

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Many leading animal behaviourists are concerned that the “dominance” model of pet dog behaviour continues to survive, despite the accumulating evidence that it is at best unhelpful and at worst highly detrimental

...It’s a neat explanation.Except that none of it actually bears scientific scrutiny. Prof Richard Dawkins described self replicating ideas as “memes”(1) that live in our minds and pass from one to another through no reason other than their popularity, or catchiness. Some are harmless, like that annoying song you keep humming long after you’ve decided you hate it, but others can be positively harmful, like the idea that combined MMR jabs cause autism, which continues to prevent many children benefiting from the protection they provide.
The “pack” and “dominance” theory of domestic dogs is a harmful meme. It prevents many owners understanding their dogs, causes untold misery for both and is perpetuated by well-meaning but uninformed dog trainers around the world. It is proving extremely resistant to extinction.

WHAT NOBODY TOLD YOU ABOUT RAISING A PUPPY [/url]

Mikey T · 08-22-2010, 12:10 AM

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He is figuring out how to bark and growl, which my 11 year-old son is claiming are acts of aggression. I tried to explain to him that Nitro does not even understand what aggression is at this point.

Agression has more than one meaning so in the right context your son is probably correct. That is in the way most childern especial boy plays with dogs actual cause then to esculate the instensity of play when they are actual trying to stop it. It is the increase in intensity that is interpreted as becoming agressive. That is dog nips to hard boy pushs dog away, dog interpet tation is boy is playing at an increased intensity and matchs by comming back and biting harder creating a viscious cycle. Teaching your son to yelp and/or leave when bitten to hard will end this cycle. Also keep in mind it is not alway the human that has to leave. By using a training tab (very short leash) you can use it to remove the dog from the area without actual have physical contact with the dog which it will likely interpret as play.

The second part is a bit more scientific and interesting It is about FAP Fix action Patterns and their roll in play. The article below is about the 4F's and in particular mating . I think you can figure out how mating relates to the for F's

but "fighting" is part of this too. Play is a means to ritualistical the dog to learn and practice these basic survival skill that are hard wired into the brain, fixed. The fact they are accompanied by body language the dog comunicates first that every thing that happens afterward is simply play. So growing during play is not a sign of aggression or the dog is going to become dangerious.

Oh behave: Love and mounting

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Let’s begin at the beginning. Fixed action patterns, or FAPs, are important behaviours that are pre-installed in animals, kind of like bundled software that comes with a computer. Fixed action patterns require no learning and are triggered by something in the environment. A classic example is a moving bit of string that triggers a six-week-old kitten to pounce. The pouncing sequence is stereotyped across all cats. Another example is how a cat will turn sideways, arch his back, puff up and hiss. This is a self-defense FAP, again common to all cats and stereotyped.

Ethologists have coined the four big areas of endeavour under which most FAPs fall the “Four F’s”: fight, flight, feeding and reproduction. Animals that lack competency in the Four F’s don’t pass on their incompetent genes;

Note For most euthologist (the study of animal behavior) FAP is an antiquated term because such behaviors while they have a genetic basis are still amendible to chage increasing or decreasing intensty, frequency etc via training so they are not truely fixed but rather highly genetically based.

tug of war

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Even many dog resource people such as breeders, trainers and veterinarians caution against this game. This is partly a failure to discriminate between agonistic behavior (conflict resolution & defensive aggression) and predatory behavior. Also, many people have issues about witnessing intensity. Intensity is not aggression, however.

...No topic engenders such a wide range of conflicting advice than whether or not it is advisable to play physical-contact games with dogs, e.g., play-fighting, tag and tug o' war. Some breeders and trainers are vehemently opposed to these games, feeling they make the dog uncontrollable and more aggressive. Other breeders and trainers, however, feel frequent games make for a better companion. Certainly, there are pros and cons of doing almost anything with a dog and this includes roughhousing.

...Disadvantages
It is highly unlikely dogs become more aggressive by playing games with their owners. Quite the contrary, in fact; customarily, game playing builds confidence and handleability and promotes friendliness. Perhaps the so-called increase in aggressiveness would be better termed excessive rambunctiousness - play-chasing, play-growling, play-mouthing and play-fighting, i.e., the dog is over-friendly. Nonetheless, regardless of how friendly the dog's intentions, unsolicited rambunctious roughhousing; is often annoying and can be potentially dangerous. Human games and sports offer a good analogy, especially when the participants have been poorly; coached and/or the game is badly refereed. It is not the games - tennis, football, or ice hockey, which are at fault, rather potential problems come down to a matter of control. And so it is with canine games.
It is highly unlikely certain games have an intrinsic property to render dogs uncontrollable. Instead it is the manner in which the owner allows the dog to play the game, which influences the dog's subsequent tractability and willingness to comply. For example, many trainers incorporate game playing and the necessary teaching of a multitude of game rules to reinforce their control over the dog. Alternatively, allowing a dog to play willy-nilly, without instruction or guidance would no doubt make him more difficult to control. Control-problems are threefold:
1. the owner allows the intensity of play to increase to the point where it may be physically dangerous
2. the owner can no longer stop the dog form playing and
3. the owner allows the dog to initiate unsolicited play sessions. The owner barely knew which end of the whistle to blow.
So, why not just stop playing these games altogether? Well, a good class instructor quickly learns to anticipate a lot about dog behavior and a whole lot

more about human nature. Firstly that dogs, especially adolescent dogs, are going to attempt to play this way with people anyway. In fact, much of a dog's waking existence and certainly most of his playtime focus on mouthing (and/or biting) objects both inert and alive. Consequently, it makes sense to take time to teach the critter rules. And secondly, that many owners, especially men and children and extra-especially boys (ranging in age from two to fifty-two years old), are going to play these games with dogs anyway. And so, it similarly make sense to teach owners how to be better canine coaches, so they may correctly referee Rover and reap the many benefits these games have to offer

...Advantages ...

When played according to the rules, these games:
1. increase the level of control owners have over their dogs, specifically proofing control at times when the dogs are excited and worked-up and
2. motivate, build confidence and make the dog less aggressive, specifically improving and maintaining his bite inhibition.

Hope that helps keep in mind you should read all the links in their entirety the quotes are but the tip of the iceburg.

A note on the Dominance theory myths links, One can find more on the subject by seaching for such on this site. It is important to point most of the techniques use can be helpful the problem lies in that the therory behind how they work is faw so whet is comes to applying them they are often done inapropriately. And the have posible bad consequences that are not present with other techniques as well.

Jack Palance vs. Fred Astaire

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There is a classic scene in western movies where the villain (personified by Jack Palance in "Shane", a scene reprised in Clint Eastwood's "Pale Rider and countless other western movies.) commands the lowly sod buster to "dance". Invariably the means of enforcing this request is with a burst of bullets from a "six-gun" (usually exceeding six shots) aimed at the farmer's feet. The hapless plow-boy then buck jumps and hops his way through a grotesque imitation of Fred Astaire. While this is certainly not the way most people would suggest training a human to do anything, that's exactly how most dogs are trained to do everything.

Punishment -- How Not to Do It.
[quote]
While these examples of punishment are relatively straightforward, there is a caution that accompanies any use of aversive control. The behavior you punish may not be the only one affected. You may wipe out a number of desirable behaviors unintentionally or create more problems than you started with. For instance, chasing small children is a typical, but objectionable canine behavior. If you are expecting a number of small bipeds at your home you may use balloons to punish chasing behavior. First, inflate some balloons and pop them in your dog's face. Once Fifi is totally appalled by the sight of balloons, simply pin one on each of the children. Fifi is not going to approach any "wee ones" as long as they wear the dreaded balloons.
If you think this sounds like a foolproof solution, think again. Your first concern may be that your dog may become afraid of all loud noises. Second, she may become afraid of children, and third, she may become terrified of balloon-like objects such as watermelons and cantaloupe.
Another difficulty with this type of training is that intentionally terrifying an animal is a stumbling block for many owners. Even though they regularly punish and terrify the pet in anger, to do something in such a coldly calculating fashion is emotionally difficult. Ironically, it is the precisely executed punishment that is more effective and more humane. When used correctly, punishment can be reduced to a rarely used, highly effective tool for creating inhibitions. If alternate behaviors are taught with positive reinforcement, the amount of punishment can be further reduced. Despite the fact that punishment rarely accomplishes the changes in behavior one desired, some people retain an unrelenting belief in its effectiveness. Many pets are traumatized and ultimately ruined by failed rituals of punishment, retribution and reprisal. Before considering punishment to change your pet's behavior, ask, "Is it safe?" After punishing your pet, ask, "Did it work?" [/url]

On Punishment
[quote]
My personal view is that virtually all animal training would profit from the use of positive reinforcement. There are a very few circumstances in animal training where the addition of punishment is, in my opinion, extremely worthwhile, and possibly essential. There are a few more situations where adding punishment would likely be very useful. In those rare circumstances where punishment offers potential benefit, it is always to stop some behavior that could cause harm to the animal, a human, or damage or destroy property. In my opinion, and just as examples, this would exclude the use of positive punishment in the training of sport or obedience training and severely restrict punishment in the training of service dogs.[/url]

"Clicker Trainers Use No Punishment" and Other Training Myths

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Clicker trainers use no punishment.”

Incorrect.

Clicker trainers use negative punishment, which is the removal of something the dog wants. For example, “"penalty yards" (TM pending, Lana Horton)” is a common method used in teaching loose leash walking. The dog sees something it wants. As long as the dog walks nicely, the trainer lets it walk toward what it wants. However, if the dog pulls, the trainer walks the dog backwards. Walk nicely; get what you want—positive reinforcement. Pull; lose what you want—negative punishment. This method is extremely clear to the dog, because getting or losing what it wants is controlled by the dog’s actions.

“Adding an aversive (positive punishment) is more severe, but more effective, than removing a reinforcer (negative punishment).”

Positive punishment… Is it more severe than negative punishment? Is it more effective? What about positive reinforcement? Is it more or less powerful than negative reinforcement? Is it more or less effective?
Neither.
Every application of reinforcement and punishment, positive and negative, falls on a continuum from mild to extreme. Exactly where the particular application falls on the continuum depends on the individual dog and the specific situation.

Position Statement - On the Use of Punishment for the Behavior Modification of Animals AVSAB

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AVSAB recommends that training should focus on reinforcing desired behaviors, removing the reinforcer for inappropriate behaviors, and addressing the emotional state and environmental conditions driving the undesirable behavior. This approach promotes a better understanding of the pet’s behavior and better awareness of how humans may have inadvertently contributed to the development of the undesirable behavior. Punishment should only be used when the above approach has failed

...Regardless of the strength, punishment can cause some individuals to become extremelyfearful, and this fear cang eneralize to othercontexts. Some punishments may not cause physical harm and may not seem severe, but they can cause the animal to become fearful, and this fear may generalize to other contexts. For instance, some dogs on which the citronella or electronic collar are used with a preceding tone may react fearfully to alarm clocks, smoke detectors, or egg timers.

... Punishment can facilitate or even cause aggressive behavior. Punishment has been shown to increase the likelihood of aggressive behavior in many species. Animals in which the punishment does not immediately suppress the behavior may escalate in their efforts to avoid the punishment to the point where they become aggressive. Those who already show aggressive behavior may exhibit more intense and injurious aggressive behaviors.

Punishment can suppress behaviors, including those behaviors that warn that abite may occur. When used effectively, punishment can suppress the behavior of fearful or aggressive animals, but it may not change the association underlying the behavior. Thus, it may not address the underlying problem. For instance, if the animal is aggressive due to fear, then the use of force to stop the fearful reactions will make the dog more fearful while at the same time suppressing or masking the outward signs of fear. Once it can no longer suppress its fear, the animal may suddenly act with heightened aggression and with fewer warning signs of impending aggression. In other words, it may now attack with no warning.

Punishment can lead to a bad association. Regardless of the strength of the punishment, punishment can cause animals to develop a negative association with the person implementing it or the environment in which the punishment is used. For instance, when punishment is used for training dogs to come when called, the dogs may learn to come at a trot or walk (or cower while approaching) rather than returning to the owners at a fast run as if they enjoy returning to their owners.

Nitrosmom · 08-24-2010, 11:27 PM

Wow! That's a lot of info MikeyT! Thank you so much! I am in the process of printing off the links and information you gave me. He goes to the vet on Thursday for shots. I'll ask the vet about socialization with other dogs then. He has been meeting lots of people this past week and is having a blast. He greets others with a wagging tail and licks. He still gets barky with us, but we are ignoring that and rewarding him for being quiet and calm. The nipping is slowing down too. I know he is going to require a lot of work, but we are in this for the long haul and open to all suggestions!

Mikey T · 08-25-2010, 05:09 AM

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rewarding him for being quiet and calm

That is the part of the training the breaks down for most owners it becomes to easy to ingnore the good behavior, hence it becomes less frequent. IMHO much of the problem behavior in dogs can be related to a single cause, the lack of impulse control. Teaching this to a dog/puppy can go a long way to making the dog easier to live with.

see

Its yer Choice

and Crate Game

Guideline for teaching self control will go along way in developing that self control in a puppy or dog

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I'll ask the vet about socialization with other dogs then

Socializing with other dogs is not without risk but there is an even greater risk by not doing so. You want to take every precaution possible that any other dogs your puppy is exposed to is not a carrier of parvo etc.

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He still gets barky

Ecessively exuberant greatings and departure can have a negative effect exaserbating seperation anxiety as well. So it is a good idea to makes these as calm as possible only acknowledging the dog when he is acting calm. This often means the first fifteen minutes after you get home with the more exciteable dogs.

Barking at other times is often a means of getting the owners attention. It general is quite effective for the dog which is why the do it. The solution most provide is simply ingnore the behavior but that comes with problems.

1. if this could be followed in the first place the dog nevery would have been reward for it and continued. It is simple to say nearly impossible to comply with

2. The never mention the phenonenom of extinction burst in which a previously rewarded behavior get worse ie more forceful etc before it goes extinct because of lack of reinforcement. Look at it this way what do you do when you hit a light switch and it does not go on. Ignore it. Or try it again, faster etc. That is what happens when you try and ignore attention seeking behaviors the get worse much worse. If you had trouble ignoring them before how will you fair when they are 10x worse?

3. It does not change the dogs basic emotional state. Even if successful the dog still has a need for attention, It will simply find and even more obnoxious behavior that you can't ingnore.

Some alternative include teach a less obnoxious alternative, ie sitting quitely. The problem with this is it is easy to ignore the desired behavior and hence kill its usefulness for the dog.

Reward with attention timely. It has been show dogs and baby that are rewarded timely with attention become less needy over time. It is the basis of the [url=http://a1harmony.com/[/url] If youignore the new age psycobable on"love energy" the explaination on how it works and how to implement it is pretty compelling. I also thing it is more in keeping with the type of relationship most people want with their dogs and because of that much easier for the humans to implement effectively.

08-21-2010, 02:08 PM	#1 (permalink)
Nitrosmom Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 65	Too Young Well, we got our puppy from a supposedly good breeder. My husband asked when we could bring Nitro home, the breeder said he sends his pups off at six weeks. So we picked him up at six weeks. My husband is now obsessing that we got him too young and thinks the dog will be scared for life. We have had Nitro for two weeks, which make him all of eight weeks old. He does really good with the potty training, but now he has found his teeth. He snaps at everything that moves, except the cat who bit him once, held him down and growled at him. (Yes, the cat growled at the dog). My husband bought the Cesar Milan book How to Raise the Perfect Dog in which Cesar states that you should never get a dog before eight weeks. So my question is, is the puppy beyond hope because he was taken away from the litter too young? He seems happy and content and loves to play. He is figuring out how to bark and growl, which my 11 year-old son is claiming are acts of aggression. I tried to explain to him that Nitro does not even understand what aggression is at this point. How can I explain this is a way that will make sense to the men in the house will understand? Or, am I completely off base and have a Cujo on my hands?

08-21-2010, 03:45 PM	#2 (permalink)
Basset Momma Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: West Texas Posts: 2,288	No- while 8-12 weeks is best , in my corner of the world puppies often go home at 6 weeks... before we knew better we would bring ours home at 6 weeks... they all did fine and became wonderful pets... but the socialization was a bit behind... once the puppy has had shots get him involved in a puppy training class and perhaps even a daycare setting to learn the skills he could have learned from his litter mates. Even socialized puppies are "cujos" for awhile as they are teething! __________________ -Wendy Mom to Samantha, Jake, Cuddy, Frodo, & Indy

08-21-2010, 03:59 PM	#3 (permalink)
bubbad Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Boiling Springs,Pa Posts: 1,157	He was taken away too soon ,long before his mother could teach him lessons in puppyhood. Now that you have him it is not hopeless to bring him in to being a respectable family pet. You are his teacher now always remember persistence and consistancy is what will help him learn.The barking and growling may seem cute but if you do not limit it now it will grow into problems you don't want. I'm sure Ceasar's book will talk about these situations or MikeyT.(on this site) will give you all the info you need. He has not gone through his first fear period usually betwwen 9-12 weeks in which case you want to socialize him but not over power him with stimulus.If something scares him he will look to you to see how you react the less you react the better for him.He will learn when you are not afraid he doesn't need to be afraid. This is all a learning process for you as well. Good Luck

08-24-2010, 11:27 PM	#7 (permalink)
Nitrosmom Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 65	Wow! That's a lot of info MikeyT! Thank you so much! I am in the process of printing off the links and information you gave me. He goes to the vet on Thursday for shots. I'll ask the vet about socialization with other dogs then. He has been meeting lots of people this past week and is having a blast. He greets others with a wagging tail and licks. He still gets barky with us, but we are ignoring that and rewarding him for being quiet and calm. The nipping is slowing down too. I know he is going to require a lot of work, but we are in this for the long haul and open to all suggestions!

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