TPayne

Hello, I am completely new here and pretty much new to the whole scene of puppies in general. I've always wanted a basset hound and have researched them a lot. I've spent the last week or so reading and have discovered all the bad things about puppy mills. From what I have read, I will not be buying a puppy directly online, from a newspaper, or from a pet store because of the extremely high percentage chance that they are from puppy mills or back yard breeders and by buying these puppies you are just enabling the awful system.

I've seen prices of bassets anywhere from $300-$1200. Is it possible to get a basset for around $500 that is from a "reputable" breeder. I'm not looking for a show dog, I just want a pet to love. I've considered adopting as well, but I'm leaning more towards a puppy. Since I do not want to buy from a backyard breeder or a puppy mill, I've searched for some basset hound breeders online that have an established history and pictures of their kennels. I have no problem driving to pick up a puppy as far as 5-6 hours, or just to check out a breeders environment to decide if it is "reputable". Also I can't seem to find a for sure definition of a "reputable" breeder other than opinion. Is a reputable breeder only a breeder of show dogs that cost $1200 and up? I have a hard time believing that there are no honest breeders that genuinely care about the breed that are responsible and produce healthy dogs but not necessarily these $1200 and higher show dogs. My point is that I want to buy a puppy and I don't want to contribute to a bad cause, but also don't feel like I should have to pay that much for a good hound from a good breeder. I could be wrong here, that's just how I feel.

As I mentioned above, I've found some breeders online that appear to have the best interest in the breed and not "profit driven" (pictures of kennels, completely open to questions, they want you to come look at their kennels, have a lot positive feedback from purchasers). So here are 2 main breeders I found that I am interested in and would be able to drive to to check out. Has anyone heard of these or got a hound from these and are they legit?

BFH Bassets , Basset Hound Breeder, AKC Registered Basset Hound puppies

Basset Hounds, AKC Registered Puppies, Breeder, Roy's Bassets

Also, what questions should I ask a breeder?

I have many questions and want to be well educated before I do get a dog and I'm open to learning and ready to put in the time to educate myself. Thank you all in advance for helping, I have already learned so much from reading on this forum even before my first post. Thanks again!

gsally

There is a great debate on this forum about reputable breeders............in another thread titled "Looking for a Basset Breeder". My experience has been to have patience until you find someone who cares about providing you with a really good puppy rather than making a sale. It takes research but it also takes patience. Go to some dog events, any kind of event will bring in people who love dogs. When you find the right breeder, you will know. Follow your gut instinct and be patient!

Mikey T

Just like the definitions of Puppymill and BYB there are some general parameters but an individual is able to tweek around the edges to suite their prefference.

1. a reputable breed breeds for the betterment of the breed not profit,
to that end

a. the breeder show in either conformation or events designed to test the suitability of the dog for its original purpose. to gain unbiased feedback on the quality of the breed program

b. Works to limit/eliminate genetic disease from the breed.
i this can be acomplished through genetic testing for those desease in which a genetic marker exists

ii. physical exam ie. oaf, cerf before breeding for genetic conditions that show early ie hip displasia.

iii Pedigree research and extensive knowledge of progeny and siblings of those dogs to understand likelihood of carrier status of genetic dieases that do not show up until that later year, ie hypotyroidism.

the sell "PET QUALITY" dog with limited registration, manditory spay nueter contract, discount for spay/nueter. early spay/nueter to prevent contributing to the breeding of lessor quality breeds

They take responsibility for every dog they produce, this mean taking back any dog they sell when ever the owner is no longer able to care for it, no matter the reason.

That is the basic crux of a reputable breed, Thing like what genetic tests vs pedigree research on thinks is important is debateable. Same for what provisions to take to prevent breeding of lessor stock, etc.

IMHO on of the most important aspects to breeding that is not realy ever touched upon is the socialization and habituation the breeder does, this can have a profound effect on the pups lifetime behavior. see Puppy Socialisation and Habituation (Part 2) How to go about it but it is not really a criteria inwho is reputable or not, but if I were chosing a breeder it would be critical.

Yes every breeder is different, Often a reputable breed will have an adult returned dog, a show dog failure ect, an older, ie not puppy available and they are if available are at a cost less than you mention. The advantage of an older dog is that what you see is what you get their personality is more ridgedly set, A puppy is much more of a crap shoot.

Non are non to be involved in fraud so from that standpoint legit, Neither appear to meet the criteria for reputable. Niether mention any showing in conformation nor field trials. Roy includes prices which is a clear indication of a profit motive and he is a natorious BYB whoses dogs are severly lacking in quality. The Health guarantee of
BFH is a joke. most life threatening congential and genetic problems show up much later than a year. From the health guarantee it is clear She does not take a lifetime trust of the dog she produces, though else where it is claimed otherwise. There is no indication that she is doing what it takes to improve the breed by getting Unbiased outside judgment. Does not appear to be to proud of here current breeding stock as there is no information on them.

for a comparison here are a few websites of reputable breeders
Topsfield Basset

Spectrum Basset

cloverhill Bassets

Castlehill Bassets

Chasen Bassets of LA

A start at locating reputable breeder can begin with the BHCA breeders list

Questions to Ask a Dog Breeder

Questions to ask a Breeder

TPayne

Thanks for all the information!

Does this mean everyone on this list is reputable? What are the qualifications? Is it possible for a bad breeder to sneak his/her way onto this list?

emc

As you yourself stated there is a variation of opinion as to the definition of a reputable breeder and it can make your head spin trying to find one matching a particular criteria. Your objective should be to find a breeder with healthy well adjusted puppies. Do your research so you will know what to look for in a pup, such as one that isn't timid, or overly bossy. Choosing a puppy that shows the right characteristics can prevent a lot of problems down the road.

TPayne

Thanks for the advice. The main thing for me is to find someone who actually screens buyers. That seems to me to be the nucleus of someone who cares, someone who cares more about the dog than their own bank account.

Is there a document I can ask a breeder for to prove that the sire/dam of the puppy have been tested for hip dysplasia, glaucoma, or any other genetic problems common in the breed?

Testing for genetic problems before breeding and screening buyers are the most important things to me. Is there anything else I should look to require in choosing a puppy? I guess it comes down to opinion after so much scrutiny?

Thanks again for the help!

Mikey T

Every one on the list is likely to show or do Field trials though the are not forced to BHCA is the Parent club of basset hound to the AKC. There is a code of ethic that the agree to adhere to but enforcement is another matter and there is not someone doing inspection so the screening is still left to the buyer but you are starting out at a higher level.

For instance a few year Back there was a Very well known basset breeder that Came to find out that there Was Glaucoma in their line. and wrote an impassioned plea about testing, unreliability of testing research in finding a genetic marker a different test that might be more useful etc. However there have be some to claim that such plea rings hollow as they knew years earlier they had a glaucoma problem and swept it under the rug and know when they could no longer hide it the come out with this a counter university research in to genetic marker competing against the research at another university BHCA was financial supporting.
One side of the story What really is the case I have no Idea, but the point is Just because you do all the testing, There is no quarantee that there will be no gentic defect. It is well know fact that two OFA excellent hip can and do produce displastic ones estimate areas high as 20% of the time. There are no guarantee only a lessening of the odd.

OFA for hips and elbow displasia, Penn Hipp measure laxicity in the hips not hip dysplasia but many think it is superior. That opinion is not without it nay sayers as well there is no conclusive evidence one way or another, CERF for gentic eye condition however glaucoma is not one of them. It was once thought that eye angles played a part in glaucoma with bassets but dog with open, closed and normal angle hav contracted it. current theory is the predominate cause of glaucoma in bassets is goniodysgenesis this can be check with a gonioscopy. at the time of a "cerf" test or a later date.

Let us get to hip displasia, very few basset have been test. And there is a ligitamate reason. The dwarfism that cause the basset to have short legs effect the hips as well. making the socket shallower than normal. There has never been a basset that rated as having OFA excellent hips. And you know the dogs test are only the one that breeder though would have good hips to begin with. But even though Basset Rank among the worst breed for hip displasia hip Dysplasia by Breed they are not one of the breed general effected by it. They carrie a lesser percentage of their weight on there rear, have massive bone mass to spread out the load do they have less pressure on the joint. and the short legs apply much less torque to the joint as well. So most get a long fine with a Joint that would become arthritic and painfull in a taller dog. So the question is just because you can diagnose a problem is it really one if it never manifest itself in any symptoms? FWIW My current agility dog 9 year old Mariah was diagnosed as mildly displastic. This is a bast that will jump from floor to Kitchen table from a standing start. And has done multiple time as much ruming and jumping than the average basset with out ever having any rear leg pain or injury and I don't expect it will ever happen,

Canine Hip Dysplasia Part IV
CANINE HIP DYSPLASIA - PART V

Controlling canine hip dysplasia in Finland which as very strict testing and breeding controls

Elbow dysplasia is probably even more common the hip displasia and I say probably because not enough breed have even tested for it for OFA to post the result. Again this is much like hib dysplasia in that basset are much more likely to suffer from it because of dwarfism, however unlike hip displasia it is more often likely to cause a problems later on. That said even for dogs with elbow incongruities they are almost never the cause of fornt end limbing in a basset and it is exceedingly rare for a basset not to have some degree of incongruity in the elbow.

All these orthorpeadic condition are only partly heritable to begin with other factor play a part as well like nutrition, mothers health when dog in the womb etc. So even with testing the result of reducing hip dysplasia through testing is spotty at best. There have been some remarkable success with some breed in some countries but it is thouroughy inconsistent so inconsistent their are incidents that the rate of hip dysiplasia have actual increased since testing. So the effectiveness of testing is suspect.

There area number of bleeding disorder. Von wilbrandts has a number of genetic factor and there are genetic test for each but thye are only available for select breeds. There is still studing going on to provide a genetic test for basset but at this time there is not one. A blood test for Vwd factor can be somewhat helpful it is not conclusive. It can weed out the effected but it can not with any measure of certainty seperate effected and carriers and carrier and unaffected because the variability in how the faulty gene is expresed in that it still produce some factor just not the amount it should. There is a genetic test or Basset hound Thrombopathia, but it is not a common problem. Other condition that have at least some genetic component Seborrhea (rarely even screened for) allergies, hypothyroidism, epilepsy etc can only be control through pedigree analysis and this requires a vas knowledge of the off spring and siblings of the dogs in the pedigree it is a rare breeder that applies this to the condition mentioned again because it is not know what part/percentage genetic plays a part.

FWIW here is BHCA Health Policy
As for other things to consider I think knowing what the breeder is doing to habituatethe puppy because this becomes cirtical in minimizing behaviorial issues later in life. Behavioral issues are more prevelent cause of death in dog under the age of three than infectious diseases. The importance of early socialization and Hibituation can not be understated.


The more the breeder test for or does physical exam etc vs using knowledge of the pedigree the more expensive the pups are likely to be. Non of these test are cheap and some a very expensive. And while most breeder loose money there is a limit to how much they can subsidize the buyer. There is question on hw effect any screening actual is. etc So fiar minded individules could rational debate which an what test to perform vs pedigree analyis or other assement method.

While it is easy to say tha a breeder should test for all genetic disorders the reality of the situation is not that simple and there is a whole lot of grey area to navigate of which actual effectiveness is not an insignifactant concern

mydawgz

Mine are pure with papers. I never had any intent to show them. They were less than $300.00. I would never pay $1200.00!! I suggest to look in your local newspaper to see if there are any listed for sale. You will find one that you love. (prob the first one you see! )

TPayne

Just knowing its pure is only one thing. I also want to know the puppy doesn't have any genetic diseases and I would like to be able to see the breeding environment and meet the mother and father.

Mikey T

This is an impossible standard for ANY BREEDER TO meet the following reasons If you actual have a breeder tell you or guarantee that there breeding are free from genetic defects run, run quickly.

1. there are likely a fair number of genetic disease that breeders, vet etc don't know even exist Predelection for a particular cancer and other disease is one. There are some thoughts out there that there may be some genetic basis for some of these disease but if it does exist it is not clear to what extent and just what the mechanism is Immpossibe to breed against a problem whose existance in unknown.

2. Some know disease like HD have no solid genetic test and are likely polygentic cause by more than one gene or the interaction of multiple genes There is only physical phenotype test and these are not fool proof. It has been shown that sires with good or excellent hips through dogs with HD ~20% of the time. This if far less than the precentage with sires both with bad hip or sires on with good hip and one with bad, but still a bit of a crap shoot.

3. there are a number of genetic condition or condition with what is thought to have some genetic components, allergies, sheborrhea that are not life threatening and manageable. while it would be nice to elimiate or at least minimize these in light off more dangerious condition they will likely be over looked.

4. The cost of all the testing is high. The more a breeder test for the higher the price of the pup is generally going to be. It is rare a breeder recoups all their expenses but if losses are too great they simply will not breed.

The best you can hope for is the breeder takes reasonable (an reasonable is always in the eyes of the beholder) measure to ensure that they breed dogs in such a manner as to produce puppies unaffected by genetic conditions. This would be much simpler if the did not have also some what competeing and equally important interest in producing dogs with sound temperament, conformation and working ability. Breeding becomes a big balancing act of competeing interest than one must maintain in relative balance.