Welshtyke

Sorry its a bit long winded

We got Belle as a rescue 3½ months ago along with Beau, now 4yrs and 10mnth respectively. We are now starting to get know and there traits. Beau is easy we got him as 6½ mnth old and we know his history. Belle is different her history is very sparse, and we are having to learn as we go along. She was found wandering around Derby before ending up at Basset Hound Welfare.

We think she has had a bad time with a woman, because she is wary around my wife.

We also think she has had some physical mistreatment however more a case of being left and not receiving any affection. It may also be the case that at some point she was loved to bits before being discarded.

The more I write I seem to be answering my own questions (rambling a bit now), we were on our late nights walk and there was a mother with two children and baby in a push chair, and we had a growl out of Belle. The more I think about it, I may be totally wrong; it is the classic case of people having a dog, a child comes along the child then gets all the attention naturally I suppose, the dog gets jealous, because it is used to the attention and turns. Consequently I think Belle was turfed outside before being abandoned since her coat demonstrated she had been living outside.

I have given her plenty of attention since when we first she has really attached herself to me and I probably continued to encouraged it a bit too much so she is not lacking in the affection department.

Last night my wife was giving Beau attention and she got really jealous and walked to intervene, with a growl under her breath. So I think this all ties in.

I think we have a dog who is wary of women and gets quite jealous about the prospect of losing out on attention.

What buttons do we press to get around this one any help would be well appreciated

Mikey T

While speculating about the history of a dog is not a problem it can become a severe impediment when that speculation is then used to become an action plan for dealing with problem behaviors. We can not know the reason behind the behaviors, relying on wrong assumptions are counter-productive It is far better to concentrate simply on the behaviors themselves never the motivation.

see Was your dog Abused


Jealousy can be extemely damaging when it it asumed the cause of a dogs behavior. This then makes it a behavior completly in the dogs control and unamendable to modification and becomes justification for a punishment that can cross the line to abuse. Why Can't a Dog Be More Like a Dog? earlier you mention "We think she has had a bad time with a woman, because she is wary around my wife." so it becomes a streach to assume some sort of jealous toward the other dog when simply the presence of your wife could have been the cause of the display.

So instead of speculating on a cause deal specifical with the behavior.

Also keep in mind most fear is cause by a lack of socialization rather than a specific incident. A dog with a general fear of women is more like not to have much contact with them rather than a bad incident with a particular one.

None of this helps you move forward but I think it is important to point out the possible pitfall that i see in you current way of thinking about the problem and trying to oppen you up to a different approach.


Keep a notebook for recording "incidents" recording the circumstances surounding the incident, what the dog was doing. what others were doing, where it occured, time other posible factors ie close to the food bowl etc. The purpose for this it to Identify triggers, ie what cause the unwanted behavior. and also the treashold of such triggers. If the dog is wary around women, It is all women, women of a certain age, women that wear a certain cologne, women of a particular hair color, body size, clothing ie high heels, at what distance does the dog become wary, only wary when they approach nor when they are walking away etc. This becomes importaint for training to overcome this fear. This is done by a procedure known as Densenitization and Counterconditioning The basic pricinipal is fairly simple. IT is like Pavlovs dogs creating an assotiation with that which the dog is shy/fearful/wary of and something good like a treat coming. This is not conditional on the dogs behavior. So it is important when starting off to keep below the threashold limit so the dog does not exhibit the unwanted behavior and become inadvertantly rewarded for it. There so the reason you need to do some investigation first before developing a concrete plan.
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Over time you can reduce distances and actions of the previously scary individuals, Walking toward the dog rather than moving across the path or away. etc. You need to be systematic in the approach. Incorporate friends to help you out to set up situations which you can control and work dilligently to avoid those that you can't . Just as important is avoiding putting the dog in a situation where you know itwill behave inappropriately. While waliking on the street a women approaches tun away with the dog, Cross the street turn around whatever it takes to avoid the dog becoming "wary".

some additional helpful resources and links

Training Terms

Desensitization & Counter Conditioning
CAUTIOUS CANINE - HOW TO HELP DOGS CONQUER THEIR FEARS, 2ND EDITION
A great little booklet that goes into more detail on counter-condtioning and desensitiztion than any internet article can.

Triggers & Thresholds
Another thing to point out Is not to punish the dog for its fearful behavior including the growling. Doing so can have unrealized consequences that makes matters much worse. Having a rescue myself that was punished for growing so instead it just skipped that step of aggression and when straight to bite first ask question later, definitely makes the situation much more dangerious. It took me over two years to retrain her to growl. A growl is a form of communication and an important one.


Guidelines on the Use of Punishment for Dealing with Behavior Problems in Animals by American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior



quote]WAS YOUR DOG ABUSED?

Mikey T

I did not address "jealousy" in the first post because as I pointed out it is not clear to me that it is an underlying issue. But I will deal with it in general terms here.
When people actual describe what they interpret as "Jealous" behavior in dogs there is generally a more benign reasoning that can be applied to the cause of the behavior which general is a learned adaptive behavior. Most behaviors associated with Jealously are pushy obnoxious behaviors that the dog has learned gets them what they want. The dog that butts in when another is getting petted has learned that by doing so it gets petted as well. Often with a much higher success rate than a more aceptable behavior like sitting quitely. So what I am saying is most "jelious behavior are learned through inadvertent reinforcement by the owner, or in your case previous owners. To overcome the problem is much easier said then done because it is an easy trap to fall into. Petting the dog the bumps your hand etc. But it al sets up the dog to being, push, rude and obnoxious.

Step one

The first step is teaching deference. For many a NILIF "nothing in life is Free" program works because it puts inplace the displine needed but it is not necesarry or required it depends on the individule.
Nothing in Life is Free

Step two
Impluse control. Most pushy, rude, obnoxious dogs have little or no impluse control

IMPULSE CONTROL


Lowering Arousal: How to Train Impulse Control

Guidelines for Teaching Self Control


Step three
Teaching fustration tolerance
You Can't Always Get What You Want

Other exercise include working and training one dog while in the view of the other.

FEELING OUTNUMBERED? - HOW TO MANAGE & ENJOY A MULTI-DOG HOUSEHOLD, 2ND EDITION
a Fair review of the booklet

Welshtyke

Cheers Mikey, a full, thought provoking, and very helpful reply. Will check all of the above out. Many thanks